sciencesake, he supposed, stating generally what they had themselves done, but complaining that their neighbour, belonging to such a charity, had not taken the same course, and hoping that the efforts of the commissioners would be directed to that quarter. Frequently it had been notified, that if the commissioners appeared within a reasonable time, they would find such and such abuses in existence. It thus appeared, that where abuses were not actually examined into, the guilty parties, from very dread, had set about rectifying them. He wished that some person would take a portion of these voluminous reports-suppose it related to the charities about Exeter, or any other given place or places and publish it. If, instead of thousands of pages, some few pages were devoted to one place, the like number to another, and so on, and a copy sent to the principal clergyman of a county, and to the acting magistrates, the statement would soon get into the country papers, and the nature and extent of each charity would become generally known. It would then appear that charities established on a particular foundation existed in those places, and the abuse of them would be effectually prevented. This would form the most effectual registration of those charities. Instead of paying a shilling for making an inquiry at an office, an individual need only proceed to the next newsvender's or bookseller's shop, where for sixpence he might procure a brief history of the foundation, and regulations of all the charitable institutions in a county. This was all the information he had on the subject; and he hoped it would give satisfaction to his hon. friend, the member for Westminster. There was, in these reports, information as to the number of charities in each county, distinguishing those whose endowments were above ten pounds, from those the endowments of which were below that sum. This was rather a long answer but it would soon be over. Fortunately, unlike the proceedings in Chancery, there was some hope that it would be terminated at one time or other [a laugh].-He now came to the subject immediately before the House, which, as compared with that he had just touched upon, was like plunging from light to darkness. He alluded to the practice of the court of Chancery. He never thought of that court without recollecting the words of the poet-"Let those who enter plicated intricacies of the late Queen's | case, yet, so little was he obnoxious to the charge of forgetting his duty, that he had developed the subject at the time in a very extensive way, much to his own personal inconvenience. He carried the two bills which he had introduced to a certain point; and he then found that parties whose scruples he respected, and whose independent principles he admired-he meant the Dissenters-chose to oppose with all their strength one of those bills. He then saw there was so little chance of making any efficient progress with these measures, that he deemed it prudent to abandon them for the present, in the hope that time and reflection, and the recollection that the individual who introduced them was a zealous friend to civil and religious liberty, would induce the opponents of the bills at least to meet him half way, and to state what they were willing to do. He thought they should support the Charitable Uses bill; and he hoped the time was not far off when he should be enabled to carry that important measure. He thought the present was a favourable opportunity for carrying those measures, or measures of a similar nature; but he should be afraid to hurry the commissioners in the performance of their duties, because any precipitate step might be attended with irreparable mischief. He did not know their precise object, but he felt that any premiature proceeding at present might be attended with evils which he should deeply and sensibly regret. He knew perfectly well, that, in the way of prevention, the labours of those commissioners had produced every where the most important effects. Many persons, not knowing when the inspection of the commissioners was likely to take place-not knowing at what hour the commissioners might arrive-yes, persons who had abused charities, being placed in this state of uncertainty, found it necessary to set their House in order: not knowing when the inquiry might approach their doors, they felt themselves obliged to prepare for it at all hazards. Over and over again he had received letters of thanks from individuals, who had fairly given their names, admitting that abuses had existed in different charities, but that in consequence of the appointment of the commission, those abuses either were removed, or were about to be removed. Others, wrote anonymously-for con leave all hope behind;" that was Chan- check on the Pope. But who is to make cery [a laugh], and he certainly did not the necessary inquiries? Why, the dewish to enter there if he could avoid it. pendants of the Pope. This is just as In consequence of the discoveries made absurd, as if a charge had been advanced by the inquiries of the commissioners ap- against the chancellor of the Exchequer," pointed to investigate the state of public (by the way, it was strange that the charities throughout the country, thirty- learned gentleman should have stumbled seven informations had been filed in Chan on a chancellor)" his conduct being imcery against different parties. He be- peached, he were to request that a comlieved answers had been put in to some mission should be appointed, under the of them. One of those cases had been great seal, or under the seal of the Exreported so long back as 1820: but what chequer more properly, to look into his had become of the great body of them, proceedings, that commission to consist he was at a loss to know. Not one of of the Secretary for the Home Departthem, so far as he was aware, had been ment, the Secretary for the Foreign Debrought forward. [The Solicitor-general partment, and so forth, those individuals said, "Many of them had been heard."] being his colleagues in office. What He was very glad to hear it. But he would be thought of the chancellor of knew of some of them, which had been the Exchequer if he acted thus ?" His introduced in 1820, and of which he had answer to this would be, that such a proheard nothing since. If, however, they ceeding would be very absurd, and very had been thus delayed, they were only unsatisfactory: that it would be a montaking pot-luck with the rest of the cases strous proposition-a very mockery. But in that court [a laugh]. Having now certainly not so monstrous a proceeding, answered the questions of his hon. friend not so gross a mockery, as if they put the as far as he could, he should conclude by chancellor of the Exchequer himself at saying a word or two with respect to the the head of the commission. And yet commission that had been appointed to the commission he was now speaking of inquire into the practice of the court of was exactly of that sort [hear]. That Chancery. He did not expect, he con- commission was appointed to inquire into fessed, any gratification from the partial the practice of the court of Chancery, report of that commission, of which re- and the abuses thereof, and whether those port the learned Solicitor-general had, he abuses were owing to the system itself, or believed, given the exact description it to the conduct of the individual at the would deserve, when he said he expected head of the court. And, who was selected that it would be very unsatisfactory to all to superintend that commission? Who parties. The learned gentleman would was called on to control those abuses, and laugh at him, would despise him, if he to carry into effect the wishes of the pretended to think that that commission legislature? Why, John, earl of Eldon, was calculated to do any good. The who presided in the court of Chancery powers of countenance possessed by the [hear]. No man, he was sure, could learned gentleman were very great, as point out those abuses better than that were those of every gentleman who prac- noble and learned lord, if he would speak. tised in Chancery; but he was quite con- But, he had not spoken on this subject vinced that the learned gentleman would for a whole year; and he never expected find it impossible to retain the gravity of that_the_noble and learned lord would his features if he (Mr. Brougham) de- speak. To say that he was surprised at clared that he expected the Chancery this commission not having done any commission to effect much benefit. It thing, would be a ludicrous assertionwas wrested from government by the force to declare that he was disappointed at of public opinion, and by the expression their efforts, would be a laughable asserof sentiment which has been heard within tion, too ludicrous for the gravity of the those walls; but the objects which those subject. He expected nothing from the who called for it had in view were en- first; and he had just got what he extirely frustrated. The learned Solicitor-pected [a laugh]. A good deal had general, in speaking of the Catholic relief bill, had said, speaking of one of its provisions-"Oh, this clause with respect to the correspondence of the Catholic clergy with the see of Rome, is intended as a been said about the commission appointed to inquire into the Scotch courts. That, however, was a very different thing. There they had the assistance of persons who came from another country, and who had thought proper he could have brought forward much stronger cases than even those which he had laid before the House that evening. The petitions were ordered to be printed. COTTON MILLS REGULATION BILL.] The House went into a committee on this bill. were free from any of those prejudices | tions possessed by the court of Chancery; which might stand in the way of improve- and concluded by observing, that if he ment; and, above all, they had the benefit of the advice and assistance of lord chancellor Eldon [hear]. However he might disapprove of that noble and learned lord as the superintendant and censor of his own conduct in his own court, he really must say, that he knew no better or fitter man than he was, to act as an inquisitor into the practice of any other court. He was anxious to do justice to his talents, to the acuteness of his understanding, and to the subtlety of his mind: and, admitting these, he declared that if he belonged to any other court save the court of Chancery, in England, Scotland, or Ireland, he knew no individual whom he should so little wish to investigate the profitable abuses of that court, as the noble and learned lord. He would be a most rigid investigator-a most zealous inquisitor into the errors of any other court but his own. To other courts he would deal out the most even-handed justice; but the noble and learned lord certainly was not the person whom he would select to place at the head of a commission for inquiring into the practice of his own court. [hear]. He only knew of one instance where an individual was found just and bold enough to accuse and condemn himself; and he suspected, as that individual happened to be a pope, that the noble and learned lord would, from a religious scruple, decline following his example. The pope to whom he alluded had adjudged himself to be burned. He accused himself with having committed various crimes-such as the pronouncing false judgments, delays of justice, extortion &c.; and he held himself to be in a state of mortal sin. He exclaimed "Judico me cremari; " and what followed? "Et judicatus fuit et crematus fuit-et sanctus fuit."[Laughter.] He feared, however, that the noble and learned lord would stick to the estate for life, and that he would not give either to his country or to his soul, the benefit of his abdication. He undoubtedly considered the noble and learned lord to be the last man who should have been appointed on such a commission. Mr. Hobhouse said, that at the suggestion of others he had been induced to alter a little his original purpose. It was his intention to reduce the hours in the day which children were compelled to work in cotton mills. When he found that no workman in any robust employment, nor even those persons who having incurred the penalties of the law were sentenced to hard labour, were compelled to work for so many hours, it grieved him to find that any opposition should be given to a proposition, that children should not be forced to work in cotton mills for more than eleven hours out of the twenty-four. Within the last few days he had inquired the number of hours that men worked at other trades, and he found the following to be the fact :-The machine-makers, the moulders of the machinery, house-carpenters, cabinet-makers, stone-masons, bricklayers, blacksmiths, mill-wrights, &c., worked no more than ten hours and a half per day; and some of them, in winter, only eight and a half. There was one circumstance which distinguished cotton-manufacturers from all others; namely, the high state of the temperature, and the variations of heat and cold. An objec tion had been thrown out, that in cases of this description it was ridiculous to legislate. It had been said, "Will you not let the mothers regulate their children?" He remembered, when he was at school, having read a similar argument against the abolition of the slave trade; but, did not the House legislate in that case. What he should propose was, that the children should work for five days in the week, twelve hours a day; and how could any man have the face to ask for an extension? On the Saturday, he Mr. J. Williams said a very few words should propose to take off three hours, in in reply. He again referred to the author-order that they might prepare for the ity of Mr. Justice Blackstone, to prove that the ancient law-writers did not allow that extent of authority to the court of Chancery which was now contended for. He objected strongly to the two jurisdie repose of Sunday. He could assure the House, that masters who employed among them 15,000 operatives, were as anxious for these amendments to be made as he was. Sir Robert Peel's bill had been found not adequate to its purpose, and therefore another was required. Mr. J. Smith said, he was sorry that his hon. friend felt it necessary to make an alteration as to the time. He believed that the custom of making children work for so many hours was prejudicial to the interest of their masters. In Mr. Owen's manufactory, the hours of employment had been decreased from 11 hours, to 104; and he knew, that as much work was done in the latter, as had previously been done in the former number of hours. He believed the state of the flax-mills called quite as much for investigation, as that of the cotton. persons. The House had heard much of the condition of the slaves in the West Indies. No one could reprobate the system of slavery more than he did; but the labour performed by the negroes in the West Indies was actually less than was exacted from these poor children at Manchester, and was far less detrimental to health. Mr. Secretary Peel was of opinion that the most valuable part of the present bill was the power which it gave to magistrates to enforce the provisions of the existing one. He should not oppose the clause limiting the labour; but he should have been better pleased to have had no alter-. ation made at all as to the labour, without a commission first appointed to investigate the facts. Mr. Tulk thought the existing system one of atrocious cruelty, and would move, as an amendment, a return to the hon. member for Westminster's original proposition, eleven hours and a half for the daily labour instead of twelve. Sir F. Burdett expressed his apprehension that with that clause, the bill might be lost, perhaps, altogether. Mr. Huskisson said, he would not give up one point of his opinion as to the impolicy of attempting to regulate free labour; but, as parliament had thought it right to interfere with respect to the cotton-mills, certainly the more fully the provisions of a former bill were carried into operation the better. For this reason, he agreed in the propriety of enabling magistrates to compel the attendance of witnesses, where that law was supposed to have been violated; but he by no means believed, that the children generally in Mr. Philips believed, that the effect of cotton-mills worked fourteen hours a-day. reducing the hours of labour for the He was glad of the alteration that had children would be to throw them out of been introduced as to the hours; for the employ altogether. The present comcommittee that had investigated the ques-plaints were got up by a most formidable tion had recommended twelve hours; and although, perhaps, other children might not have to labour so many hours, yet the intensity of their labour made it as fatiguing. Take, for instance, the children that laboured in agriculture. He had no doubt that, if they investigated every species of labour, they would find much that they could wish to alter; but, what would become of those children if they were not so employed, and what would they do for the food, clothes, and comforts that they were at present receiving? Any alteration that should induce the masters to withdraw those comforts, would be only an aggravation instead of a relief to the children. Mr. W. Smith said, that as to the sad condition of the children in these cotton-mills, it was enough to see them once to be convinced of it. The House had already evidence upon that point, which it was impossible to doubt. The necessity of this excess of labour he denied. The people at the Lanark-mills worked only 10 hours a day; and those mills paid sufficiently, and gave employ to 3,500 VOL. XIII. combination, which called itself "The Grand Union of Operative Spinners." There were several unions formed for the purpose of raising funds to be used against their employers. An hon. friend of his said, "So they ought" [hear, hear]. He was not to be put down by "hear, hear." He was personally acquainted with the effects of those unions, and if his hon. friend knew them as well as he did, he would oppose them. He did not object to the limitation of hours in the day, if he could be convinced that it was called for by circumstances; but those circumstances had not been made out. Mr. Gordon thought, that the children should be defended, not more against the severity of their masters, than the avarice of their parents. The children were not free agents, and required the protection of the legislature as much as the slaves of the West-Indies, for whom regulations had been made, not only as to what work they should do, but what allowance of food they should receive. The fears of those who were alarmed lest the cotton trade should be destroyed by these regu3 T lations, ought not to weigh against the common rights of humanity. The hon. member for Westminster had done every thing to conciliate all parties. It should be recollected, that the children were now required to work twelve clear hours in the day. Mr. Huskisson wished to know whether Mr. Tulk would withdraw his amendment; for, after what was said as to the risk which it would occasion to the bill, no good could be answered by persevering in it. As to his own opinion, he would say that he had supported the bill, on his own view of it, and without any communication with any of the parties connected with either side of the question. The amendment of Mr. Tulk was then withdrawn, and the bill went through the committee. HOUSE OF LORDS. Thursday, June 2. BURIALS IN IRELAND BILL.] The Earl of Radnor, after the clerk had read the act of last session which makes provision for burials in Ireland, addressed the House in support of a bill for repealing that act. The noble lord said, that his objection to this act was founded altogether on a religious question. He then entered into a history of the introduction of the bill on which the act is founded, and of the transactions in Ireland which gave occasion to its introduction. The act which he now proposed to repeal was a protection for all sorts of heresies. The language of it was inaccurate. Referring to the act of king William, it was enacted, that the same "shall stand and be repealed." The act seemed intended to enable every sect to disturb the church. order to correct this impropriety, he would submit to their lordships for a first reading, a bill "for regulating interments in Ireland in a more decent and orderly manner." The bill was read a first time. In The Earl of Liverpool said, he could not consent to such a bill. The noble lord had truly said, that this was a religious question. Whether there was any thing ungrammatical in the bill he could not say; but certainly, no measure had ever received more consideration; and it had produced public quiet and peace on a subject which had previously been a source of disturbance. The noble lord objected to the words "stand and be re pealed;" the language might not be very elegant, but the words were part of the common legal phraseology of bills. The act restored the right of burying in monasteries; but as some old monasteries had become private property, it was necessary to introduce a clause to protect that property. With regard to churchyards, it was not doubted that all sects, whether Catholics or Dissenters, had the right of burial in those of the parish in which they resided: but out of this there arose an embarrassing religious question; namely, whether the clergyman was on all occasions bound to perform the burial service. of the church of England. The performance of the rites of the established church was objected to by many classes of Dissenters, and more particularly by Roman Catholics. To obviate this difficulty, the first thing done was, to take away all obligation on the clergyman to perform the burial service; and next, to give to Roman Catholics the opportunity of reading their prayers in the churchyard. The act, therefore, provided that this might be done on notice being given to the curate. He knew it had happened with respect to this bill, as with many other measures, that it pleased the extremes of neither party; but it had attained its object, and those whom its operation immediately affected appeared to be perfectly satisfied with it. had followed its adoption; and it had every where been well received. He had allowed the first reading of the bill; but, he would oppose the motion for printing it. Quiet Their lordships divided: For printing the bill 1; Against it 31; Majority 30. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Thursday, June 2. PRIVATE COMMITTEES-LONDON AND WESTMINSTER OIL GAS BILL.] Mr. H. Whitbread presented a petition from the directors of the London and Westminster Oil Gas Company, complaining of the manner in which that bill had been got rid of by the committee above stairs. After a long and laborious inquiry in the committee, of which he was chairman, and in which fifteen or sixteen counsel were heard from day to day, a number of persons, most of whom were interested in the Coal Gas companies, and not one of whom had attended for a single hour during the progress of the |