Votes on account, might have postponed the definitive Votes until after Easter. By the course adopted hon. Members had been put in the position not to be able to make observations which, under other circumstances, they would have wished to offer. The same remark applied to the Irish Votes. In his opinion it would have been much more desirable that the Government, having obtained the Votes on account, should not have ventured on a course which the Government themselves said was unusual and inconvenient, and which a much respected Member characterized as objectionable and unconstitutional.

ia consideration or courtesy. The Votes last night passed with unusual rapidity; partly, perhaps, owing to the circumstance that they had been prepared with great care, and that hon. Members who had studied them found little in the Estimates to object to. Class 5 also occupied less time than could have been anticipated, owing to the postponement of the Colonial and Consular and Diplomatic Votes; and, consequently. Class 6 might have come on before hon. Members had expected. There was no ground for saying that he had stolen a march on the House or taken an unusual course. On Monday evening he gave notice that he should last evening THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEmove the Revenue and Civil Service Esti- QUER said, that a meaning was attached mates, Classes 2, 5, and 6, and that notice to the word “unusual" which it did not was printed on the paper which was dis bear. The practice to vote on account tributed on Tuesday morning. At the was entirely novel, because it was incident same time, he gave a separate notice that to a system which had been adopted for the he should on Wednesday move Votes on purpose of giving effect to an important account. On Wednesday he endeavoured administrative improvement. It was neto do so; but an hon. Member behind cessary to prepare a list of Votes on which him objecting he was compelled to post-probable advances would be required bepone the Motion till last evening. Last fore there was an opportunity of bringing evening he was obliged to move those them definitively before the House. That Votes on account in order that they might was unusual, but it was a practice to which be reported to-night. It was in that sense recurrence would have to be had in future that his right hon. Friend the Secretary of years. As to the objection to the combiState for War spoke when he said that the nation of Votes on account with definitive course taken was unusual. It was unusual, Votes, he did not deny that there was a because the necessity for Votes on account certain degree of inconvenience attached of these Estimates arose for the first time to it, but it was entirely bound up with the this Session in consequence of the change new system, and he thought it very immain the mode of Voting the Civil Service terial. His right hon. Friend the SecreEstimates which was made last year. tary to the Treasury (Mr. Peel) was liable MR. AUGUSTUS SMITH said, that to no censure whatever; and if there was he objected to the taking of the Votes on an ambiguity in the notice, it was an account on Wednesday, because the notice ambiguity arising from the impossibility had only appeared in the paper that morn- to foresee the speed with which the Votes ing. The course adopted last night, if not would be passed. If he had known it a juggling, was certainly a bungling, irre- would have been so, he would have withgular, and inconvenient one. It had, he drawn these Votes from the list of Votes believed, never before occurred, that after to be taken on account. With regard to the House had agreed to Votes on account the Amendment, he was sure the House of it had been called upon to consider the Commons would not agree to the AmendEstimates in extenso on the same evening.ment, or refuse to reward Sir Edward He begged to move the reduction of this Ryan for the discharge of duties which he Vote by £1,500, the salary proposed for had hitherto performed without receiving the First Commissioner. any reward. MR. LYGON said, the Notices were Amendment proposed, to leave out certainly such as the House could not "£6.741," and insert " £5,241,"-in-understand, and therefore it was unjust to

stead thereof.

charge Members with not attending to their duties when they could not anticipate that such business would be brought on. The right hon. Gentleman had not answered the question as to the number of competitive examinations.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE- Notice taken that 40 Members were not QUER said, the hon. Gentleman had better present; House counted; and 40 Memmove for a Return. bers not being present,

Fifteenth and Sixteenth Resolutions concerned, hon. Members had certainly not agreed to.

year it was £893,000, thus showing an in- | part of the Government to take any one by crease of about £200.000. It seemed to surprise. If there had been any delay in year it was about £692,000, while this the distribution of the Estimates, it was him that everything was done to prevent a owing to the Treasury having done that fair, full, and impartial examination of the which the hon. Member thought they Estimates, and that attempts were fre- never did-namely, carefully considered the quently made to take the House by sur. Estimates before presenting them to Parprise. Many weeks ago several classes liament. He believed the convenience of were put into the hands of hon. Members, the House would be consulted by their and he submitted they ought to be taken proceeding with Class 1. Notice had been first. The House, at all events, could not given that that class would be taken tobe expected to be able to discuss that night; and if they were to proceed with the night a class which was only distributed other classes first, those hon. Members who on Thursday last. He had long enter happened to be absent would have some tained the opinion that the Estimates were reason to complain. The items in Class 1 not examined as they ought to be by the were really very much the same as in preTreasury, which, although a very expen- vious years. The Votes were the same, sive and formidable establishment, includ- and the amounts very nearly the same. ing a First Lord and a Chancellor of the He trusted, therefore, that the Amendment Exchequer, did not seem to exercise a pro- would not be pressed. per control over the other Departments of the Government. It was usual, late in the Session, to appoint a Committee to examine the public accounts; but he could not help thinking that was something like shutting the stable door after the steed was stolen. The Committee ought to be appointed before the Estimates were pre-plete farce to go on with Estimates which sented to the House. There would then be some hope of obtaining a thorough examination of the Estimates. He should move as an Amendment that the Civil Service Estimates in Part I. should be referred to a Select Committee.

the word "That
Amendment proposed, to leave out from
to the end of the Ques-
tion, in order to add the words "Part I. of
the Civil Service Estimates be referred to
a Select Committee,"--instead thereof.

MR. W. WILLIAMS said, it was a com

had been in the hands of hon. Members only since the previous Thursday. Owing to the mode in which the Estimates were laid before the House, millions were voted away in a single night without hon. Gentlemen having it in their power to check the figures.

LORD JOHN MANNERS said, he was ready to acquit the Government of any intention to take the House by surprise; but still if the particular Estimates were then

quite unprepared to discuss them, and that
for the very obvious reason that they had
been printed and delivered only at the
close of last week, when hon. Gentlemen
were away from town, and had no oppor-
tunity of examining their details. There
were several other classes of Estimates not
voted, most of which were in the hands of
hon. Members before the recess.
would therefore suggest that these should
be taken in the first instance, and that
Class 1 should be postponed until the
House had had a reasonable time for look-
ing over them. If Class 1 were pressed
forward, they would most probably be

SIR JOHN TRELAWNY said, he would second the Amendment. It sometimes happened that grave mistakes were made by the Estimates being hurried through before there was time to examine them. He believed there was a late in-proceeded with, many Members would be stance of that. The Government made some arrangement, which he thought was not in the interest of the public, in regard to Sandhurst College. The result of that arrangement was, he had been informed, a mutiny at Sandhurst, under pressure of which the arrangement was withdrawn. He particularly deprecated that a change in such a matter should be made hastily, as he believed the one to which he alluded had been; but, being made, the Government ought not to have withdrawn it under pressure of a mutiny. They ought to have adhered to it if it was right. He wished to hear from the Government if there was any foundation for the story as to the muti-passed sub silentio for the reason he had ny and the withdrawal of the arrangement. MR. PEEL said, he could assure the hon Member for Truro (Mr. Augustus Smith) that there was no desire on the

He

assigned; but when they came before the House again on the Report, considerable discussion would in all likelihood then take place. No time would, therefore, be really

saved by going on with those Estimates at present. He would recommend the hon. Gentleman opposite, instead of moving that these Estimates be referred to a Select Committee, to move that they be postponed.

SIR JOHN SHELLEY said, he fully concurred in all that had fallen from the noble Lord opposite. Of all the Estimates laid before the House, there were probably none, except, perhaps, those for the army, calling for a more careful scrutiny than those comprised in Class 1, relating to the Office of Works, &c. If the discussion could not take place then, it certainly would be had when the Report was brought

up.

(2.) £120,808, to complete the sum for Prosecutions at Assizes and Quarter Sessions.

(3.) £208,050, to complete the sum for the Police in England, Wales, and Scotland.

(4.) £2,178, to complete the sum for the Crown Office, Queen's Bench.

(5.) £8,510, to complete the sum for the High Court of Admiralty, and Expenses of Admiralty Court, Dublin.

(6.) £2,458, to complete the sum for the Commissioner of the late Insolvent Debtors Court, &c.

(7.) £53,530, to complete the sum for the Courts of Probate and Divorce and Matrimonial Causes.

(8.) £116,010, to complete the sum for the County Courts.

(9.) £8.331. Office of Land Registry. (10.) £19,725, to complete the sum for the Police Courts of the Metropolis. (11.) £103,519, to complete the sum for the Metropolitan Police."

SIR GEORGE GREY said, that the Motion suggested by the noble Lord the Member for North Leicestershire was informal and could not be put, as the House had no power, while Mr. Speaker was in the chair, to determine what Votes should be considered in Committee. But the only desire of the Government was, that the Estimates should be fairly considered, with a due regard to the convenience of the (13) £500, to complete the sum for House; and if it was the general feeling Annuities under the Divorce and Matrithat they should proceed with the Estimonial Causes Act. mates in Class 3, and postpone those of (14.) £13,959, to complete the sum for Class 1 till another sitting, his right hon. Compensations, &c., under the BankFriend would not object to that arrange- ruptcy Act, 1861.

ment.

COLONEL FRENCH said, he thought the objections raised ought to have been stated when the Government announced the mode in which they proposed to take the Estimates.

MR. ALDERMAN SALOMONS said, he hoped they would go on at once with Class No. 3.

MR AUGUSTUS SMITH said, he had made his Motion in order to raise a discussion, and he was quite willing to withdraw it. He would have moved the postponement of the Estimates in Class 1, but he had felt that such a Motion would be irregular.

Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question,' put, and agreed to.

Main Question put, and agreed to.

SUPPLY considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.) The following Votes were agreed to :—

(1.) £14,610, to complete the sum for Law Charges, &c.

(12.) £17,850, Revising Barristers (England and Wales).

(15.) £2,577, to complete the sum for the Lord Advocate and Solicitor General, Scotland.

(16.) £13.090, to complete the sum for the Court of Session in Scotland.

(17.) £7,081, to complete the sum for the Court of Justiciary in Scotland.

(18) £2,500, to complete the sum for Criminal Prosecutions under authority of the Lord Advocate.

(19.) £1,580, Legal Branch of the Exchequer in Scotland.

(20.) £35,231, Criminal Prosecutions, &c. (Scotland).

(21.) £15,605, to complete the sum for Procurators Fiscal in Scotland.

(22.) £11,380, to complete the sum for Sheriff Clerks, Scotland.

(23.) £3,695, Solicitor for Titles, &c., in Scotland.

MR. AUGUSTUS SMITH said, he thought that was a charge which ought to appear as part of the Expenditure of the Woods and Forests.

MR. PEEL observed, that the revenue derived from Titles was part of the land revenue, but the expenses were voted in

the same way as those of the Legal De- | had been entirely disappointed, and the

(46.) £32,133, to complete the sum for the Transportation of Convicts, &c.

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE asked when it was likely that the Report of the