The difference between the price at 58. per acre and at 35s. was £41,000. If the land had been bought at 5s., it clearly might have been sold the next day at 358., and the only result of what had been done was to put £41,000 into the coffers of the Indian Government, instead of into the pockets of private speculators. His hon. Friend, as usual, blamed him for what had been done, though the Government of Bengal had acted without any reference to his despatch. He would refer to another case in the south of India. He would read an extract from an Indian

that the Indian press was, with the exception of part of the Calcutta press, favourable to the new regulations-on the subject of the sale of certain lands in Neilgherry. The paper said—

"The first sale of waste lands under the new

Rule took place on Monday last. We understand the price realized by Government on some fortyfive acres was 1,310 rupees, which, with the assessment on the description sold at two rupees per acre, and the privilege of redeeming the tax at twenty-five years' purchase, gives a total of eighty rupees per acre."

in Oude, and being anxious to take possession of it, he sent his servant for that purpose; but after four or five months he discovered that he had put his servant upon land which he had not bought. Would it not have been better that the gentleman should have been able to ascertain beforehand precisely what land he had bought? Indeed, he could not conceive anything more unbusiness-like, more likely to lead to delay, confusion, and complaint, than buying a piece of land without knowing where it was. The hon. Gentleman had complained very much of the uniform sale by auction, but he (Sir Charles newspaper-and it was to be observed Wood) thought the arguments in favour of that mode of sale very conclusive. The hon. Member had put the case of a young man with little brains and with a great deal of money who might buy over the head of an intelligent man with little capital who had been at the trouble of searching out a tract of good land. But that might take place just as well under Lord Canning's Resolutions as under his (Sir Charles Wood's) despatch. Here was another case in which the hon. Gentleman, who said he was so anxious not to prefer a general indictment against the head of the Indian Office, had not taken the trouble to inquire what was in the despatch, but blamed him for what he had never done. The Government of India had a right to have a fair price for the land, and it was not imposing any hardship on anybody if the ordinary means of securing a fair price were adopted. The case of certain parties at Darjeeling had been mentioned, to whom the local officer, contrary to the instructions of the Government at Bengal, had promised land at 5s. an acre, but which the Government of Bengal had ordered to be sold by auction. The parties complained that they were not allowed to receive the land at the price of 58. In this case there was no question of survey; all the land applied for was sold to the persons who had applied for it; there was no impediment to the settlement of Europeans. It was merely a question of price. The Government of Bengal refused to confirm the irregular and unauthorized proceedings of the local officer; but they said that as the whole of the land in question might have been bought for the last few years at £1 an acre, the complainants might have it at that price if they liked. That did not suit them, and the whole of the land was afterwards sold at an average of 35s. an acre.

That was £8 per acre, and why land
worth that price should have been sold to
gentlemen for 5s. per acre was more than
he could see. He believed that the course
which he had taken, both as to the sur-
vey and as to the sale by auction, was
perfectly right, and did not interfere in
the least degree with the early extension
of cotton cultivation. In reference to this
subject he wished to call the attention of
those Gentlemen who were disposed to
believe the complaints that he had done
so, to the character of the land the sale
of which he was supposed to have checked.
Mr. Saunders had published a letter at-
tacking his conduct, in which he pointed
out what he considered the injustice to the
intended settler; and his account of what
the settler had to undergo, in search of
land, was as follows:-
:-

"The settler desirous of purchasing lands may have hundreds of miles to travel, involving no inconsiderable expense, in search of the soil and climate he requires. In such search he will necessarily be exposed to great alternation of heat and the light tent he may be able to transport along cold; he will find no covering for his head beyond with him, and no protection from the burning rays of the sun by day, and the heavy chill and damp dew by night, save this most ineffectual covering, or the still less efficient one of the forest itself. jected to many dangers incidental to the country, not the least of which are the deadly fevers prevalent at certain seasons of the year.”

In his search after land the explorer will be sub

This did not hold out a tempting prospect | Nor had his despatch prevented the sale of to the cultivator of cotton. He would land to other persons, for the Chief Commisrefer again to the district containing 16,000 sioner of Oude said that almost all the availacres in the Sonachan talook. In refer- able land there was now sold, but that it ence to this place the Secretary to the was not suitable for growing cotton, which Chief Commissioner of the Central Pro- was an article of import in that province. vinces writes to Colonel Durand on the The observations which he had made ap22nd October 1862 as follows:plied to that which was truly waste land, but the Resolutions of the Government of India applied also to a great deal of land which belonged to somebody or another, and which could not be fairly and properly disposed of without giving the claimants an opportunity of establishing their rights. He had been told that he was wrong in his opinion as to there being no great quantity of waste land in Bengal. Well, he had written to Lord Canning on the subject, and what was his reply? Writing on the 3rd of January 1862 Lord Canning

It is quite uncultivated, though, perhaps, onethird of the area may be cultivable, the remainder being hill, rock, or thick jungle. It is said to abound with wild beasts, and, without doubt, it is now very insalubrious, and will continue so until the jungle shall, to some extent, be cleared away. At present it could not safely be entered by an European from August to January.”

Now, did hon. Gentlemen really and seriously look to the early and rapid

cultivation of cotton in such districts as

those? It was utterly impossible to bring land of that description under cultivation without great labour or within the period of several years. Where were the labourers to come from? They were not to be found in the districts, and we have had experience enough of the fatal effects of fever in such districts as those even on Indian constitutions to give us little hope of bringing labourers from other districts. But even if they were brought, and could live there, for the first three or four years they could only grow food for themselves; and the notion of any early or large production of cotton in such districts was simply chimerical and absurd. But gentlemen anxious on this subject might nevertheless purchase land fit for the purpose. The Governor General stated that there was no question but that there was plenty of land under assessment fit to grow cotton upon, and such land could be easily bought, though perhaps not often in very large quantities. If hon. Gentlemen were disposed to invest their money in purchasing land for the cultivation of cotton in India, let them take land of that description, which was available at once, instead of seeking to reclaim wastes which would require five or six years to bring them into any sort of cultivation. In Mr. Ferguson's pamphlet that gentleman said he had been prepared to invest a large sum in purchasing 40,000 acres in Oude for growing cotton, but that his (Sir Charles Wood's) despatch had put an end to the scheme, and that it was impossible to attempt it, when he now found that he could only obtain 3,000 acres-an amount insufficient for his purpose. That limitation was, however, imposed by Lord Canning's Resolutions, and not by his despatch.

said

"I think it likely that you overrate the amount of waste land through which the railways pass -waste,' that is, in the sense in which the word is used throughout the Resolution. Many lands pass through miles and miles of jungle, as does the Great Trunk road, but a very great part of such ground (on the Trunk Road the whole of it) is no more disposable by the Government as waste, is no more ownerless, than the highly-tilled fields of the Doab. It was one of the mistakes of the agent of the Cotton Supply Association to assume that the country which he saw from the road wild and unreclaimed was all waste land."" Everybody who knew India knew that there was a portion of almost every township left apparently waste, and on which the ryots turned out their cattle. Pasture for the cattle, employed in agriculture, was indispensably necessary, in order to provide for the means of cultivating the arable ground. The Zemindars also often left parts of their estates uncultivated for a time, but the Government had no power to take and dispose of that land, which was as much the property of the Zemindars, or the village communities, as any other land that belonged to them. It was exactly like the moors in Scotland, which might be called waste land, but which were the absolute property of somebody, and certainly could not be sold by Government. He must remark, however, that ever since 1853 there had been nothing to prevent the whole of this description of land in Bengal which was under permanent settlement, from being bought by Europeans. Any European settler, therefore, might have bought, not from the Government, but from the proprietor, any portion of the so-called waste land in Bengal, if the proprietor was willing to

sell it. There was a Regulation providing | the proceeding of some chief who wished for the division of the Zemindary estates, to turn some of his relations out of the posso that the purchaser of any part could be freed from the danger of having his land sold for non-payment of the Zemindar's rent He might acquire the property in absolute freehold, subject only to a fixed quit rent. So far therefore as related to land in Bengal, what was called waste land might have been purchased by any person for nearly thirty years, and might be bought now, if anybody thought it worth his while to do so. Yet it was almost exclusively from Calcutta, that the complaints came of its not being possible to buy this land.

session of some land which had belonged to his family some thirty years before; and the chief answered that in the neighbouring district the grandson of a man who had been carried off nearly a hundred years before to Afghanistan, and had become a Mussulman, returned to the Punjab, and by common consent of the people who had in the mean time occupied the land and of the whole neighbourhood, the greater part of the inheritance of his family was restored to him. Could there be a stronger instance of the universal acknowledgment of the ancestral rights of property in land. If there was any single thing that would cause greater risk of in

nure of India insecure, it would be if a general feeling should be created among the people of that country that we were trifling with their rights of property in land. As to the suggestion of the noble Lord, with respect to what ought to have been stated in the despatch, he had left those points to the discretion of the Government of India. And no time had been lost in providing for them. An Act had been passed in which it was enacted that a three months' notice should be given, instead of one of thirty days; that within the three months any claim must be made, which would then be adjudicated upon by a tribunal on the spot; that compensation should be paid where the right to it was established within three years, such compensation to be paid, of course, by the Government which had sold the land.

But the Resolutions applied to waste land in other parts of India-where land belonging to the ryots was often left un-surrection than another and render our tecultivated for some years. In Mr. Saunders' pamphlet he spoke of land as waste land which had lain so for five years. This was salable under the terms of the Resolutions. In a country where manure was scarce, land was often left fallow for a few years. Natives often gave up the cultivation of their land, and went away to seek their fortune or employment at a distance. Some reasonable opportunity ought to be given to such persons of asserting their right to the land which it is proposed to sell. But that after an advertisement had been put out which many people could not see or read, a purchaser should be put in possession of a piece of land after thirty days' notice without the owner having had an opportunity of coming forward to claim his right to it, was a thing wholly unheard of. Under such a system a man might go away for six He now came to the redemption of the weeks, and when he returned find some- land tax. The noble Lord had pointed out body in the enjoyment of his land with how little difference there was in most parts an indefeasible title. One great reason for of the measure recommended by himself, insisting on having the boundaries roughly and that of the measure prescribed in the marked out, was that it would give no- despatch. In both the main points of tice to the neighbourhood of the intended security of tenure and of immunity from sale. The hon. Member opposite (Mr. being deprived, by an enhanced demand Vansittart) was quite correct in his re- on the part of Government, of the benefit marks as to the feeling of the people of of improvements, were assured to the ocIndia in regard to their land. Their love cupier of land. For either measure, a for it was something inconceivable, and for revision of the assessment was necessary, a piece hardly worth cultivating they were in order to insure a fair receipt, either ready to fight to the death. Page after of purchase money or of rent, by the page of the minutes of Lord Metcalfe and Government. His measure prescribed Sir Thomas Munro proved that this was that a fixed rent, fixed in perpetuity, the case. The people clung to their rights should be paid to Government. The of property with the utmost tenacity. In proposal of the Government of India alconfirmation of this he would mention a lowed one-tenth of this rent to be recircumstance which occurred to Sir John deemed, and a capital sum paid for it to Lawrence in the Punjab. He objected to the Indian Treasury. This he had not

allowed. He certainly had been surprised doubt that rent for land would be paid by by the assertion of his hon. Friend that the occupier to somebody, and it was well the land revenue was a curse to India. that the Government should receive a porHe had always believed that it was, per- tion of a payment which was cheerfully haps, the most remarkable advantage of made by the occupiers. He certainly did India that £20,000,000, or one-half of its not believe, that if the power of redemprevenue, was derived from the rent of the tion was given, many persons would avail land. There could not be any source of themselves of it. In the North Westincome so little unpopular. The land tax ern Provinces and in Oude, six months was perhaps the only impost which was not after the publication of the Government obnoxious to the people of India, and, for his Resolutions, not a single landowner had own part, he objected to sacrifice so large applied for it. In Chittagong, where it a portion of that safe and secure income, was allowed at ten years' purchase, very upon which we could always depend. All few persons had redeemed. But the most Oriental Governments derived a great part complete answer, so far as regarded Benof their revenue from land, and he should gal at least, was the fact that any landbe trifling with the resources of India if owner might, at the present moment, he were to act upon the advice of the practically redeem his land tax. It was hon. Member for Poole. In his recorded admitted by everybody, that if the land minutes Sir John Lawrence saidtax were to be redeemed, it would be only fair that such a sum should be given for it as would, if invested in Government Securities, produce an interest equivalent to the amount of the tax itself. Practically, at this moment there was a power in the permanently settled districts of depositing in the hands of the collectors an amount of public securities, the interest of which was equal to the rent of the estate, and thenceforward no land tax was payable, and the estate could not be sold for arrears of rent. This, in fact, amounted to a redemption of the land tax, with the further advantage that the proprietor could at any time withdraw the securities from the collector, and re-possess himself of his capital. If, therefore, settlers in Bengal wished to redeem their land revenue on fair terms, there was no obstacle to their doing so. Yet it was from Bengal that the complaints of not being able to do so principally came. He would not detain the House longer; but, in his opinion, the great argument in favour of a permanent settlement rather than of redemption was that very few people throughout India would avail themselves of the redemption, whereas the whole agricultural population, without exception, would benefit by the arrangement for a These, however, were the terms which the fixed perpetual rent charge. He believed noble Lord opposite had just recommended. that the course which the Government had Sir Charles Trevelyan thought the re- taken would be productive of advantage demption of the land tax would be an un- to the great mass of the population of justifiable sacrifice of revenue. In fact, all India, and it was to the improvement of the best authorities were in favour of con- the mass of the native population, and tinuing the tax, and, what was still more not to that of a few settlers only, that we important, the people themselves were ac- must look for the development of the recustomed to it, did not consider it a hard-sources and the increase of the wealth of ship, but, on the contrary, were perfectly the country. In the benefits of the imcontent to pay it. There could be no provement of the condition and the in

"I deprecate the policy of redemption, because I feel certain that its effect would be to deprive the State gradually, it is true, but surely of a large portion of the one great source of income which the people have been immemorially accustomed to pay, and which has all the authority of prescription and tradition in its favour. Indeed, the great majority of the ablest officers in India were against the redemption of the land tax, and not one was in favour of the particular plan recommended by the Government of India. The hon. Member for Poole had quoted Mr. Hume in support of his proposition; but if he had read a little further, he would have found a frank admission by Mr. Hume that very few, if any, of the native landowners would be willing to redeem the land tax on any terms. Mr. Beadon was also against the redemption of the land tax, and in favour of a permanent settlement, Mr. Laing, in the Minute which the hon. Gentleman had quoted, said

"I do not refer to the question of redemption of land revenue, for it is no necessary part of the question of permanent settlement. I doubt its advantage, except in the case of waste lands in unoccupied districts, and would certainly not allow any extension of it that can be helped at such a low rate as twenty years' purchase, which involves

a direct loss to the State."

creased power of consumption of the great, the propriety of making this dock, Sir F. body of the people of India, this country Grey and his hon. Friend the Member for must necessarily very largely participate; Bedford (Mr. Whitbread) visited Malta, and and, independently of our moral obliga- they had reported in its favour. As a great tion to govern India for the good of its deal of the information upon which the Adpopulation, we had the most direct pecu- miralty had acted had been drawn from niary interest in their welfare. the verbal reports of these officers, the corre spondence would necessarily present an incomplete view of the case; and as it would also be inconvenient as a precedent to produce the confidential reports of officers to the head of a Department, he hoped that the hon. and gallant Officer would not press his Motion.

MR. HENRY SEYMOUR said, that he should rest satisfied with the debate to which his Motion had given rise, and would not press it to a division.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

MALTA NEW DOCK.

PAPERS MOVED FOR.

CAPTAIN TALBOT said, he rose to move for a Copy of all Official Correspondence and Reports of the late Admiral Commander-in-Chief of the Mediterranean Station, and of the late Admiral Superintendent of Malta Dockyard, relating to the proposed New Dock at Malta. He would take that occasion to say, that as far as he had been able to form an opinion, the work could not be constructed for anything like the sum estimated. The site selected was also wholly unsuitable. What was called the Marsa, at the end of Valetta harbour, would have to be deepened to the extent of twenty-five feet or thirty feet to make it available for the purpose which the Government had in view; and in order simply to dredge it to the necessary depth a sum of £135,000 would, he believed, be required. Beyond that there was to be a basin, the construction of which also would cost considerably more than the sum proposed, and he wished to know whether the plans had not been decided in opposition to the opinions of the Admirals on the Station and the other most competent authorities.

LORD CLARENCE PAGET said, the Government had undertaken the construction of the work to which the hon. Gentleman referred at the Marsa in preference to the French Creek, first of all, because they had the ground at the former place on their hands, and could commence operations at once. The dock, he might add, would, according to the estimate of the engineer whom the Government had sent out there Mr. Scamp-be constructed for £50,000, of which sum the Maltese Government were to contribute £10,000. The basin was a matter altogether irrespective of the dock, and was connected with the general improvement of the harbour. In consequence of Sir W. Martin and Admiral Codrington having expressed doubts as to

CAPTAIN TALBOT said, he thought that as the House of Commons had to vote the money for the work, it ought to have full information upon the subject.

MR. CORRY said, he could see no reason why the correspondence and reports should not be produced.

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON said, that the documents moved for would not contain the whole case. It was on the report of Admiral Grey and Mr. Whitbread made verbally that the Admiralty had acted.

MR. WHITESIDE said, he would remind the noble Lord that the Motion included" all other Official Correspondence."

Copy ordered,

"Of all Official Correspondence and Reports of the late Admiral Commander-in-Chief of the Mediterranean Station, and of the late Admiral Superintendent of Malta Dockyard, relating to the proposed New Dock at Malta; and all other Official Correspondence bearing on the subject."

HOLYHEAD HARBOUR.

SELECT COMMITTEE MOVED FOR.
ADJOURNED DEBATE.

Order read, for resuming Adjourned
Debate on Question [5th May],

"That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of Holyhead Harbour, with a view to ascertain the best method of affording engaged in the Irish Mail Service, and for the Passengers conveyed by them."

safe and efficient accommodation for the Vessels

Question again proposed.
Debate resumed.

COLONEL DUNNE said, as the information he had received confirmed the statements he had made respecting the works, he must press the Motion for a Committee.

LORD CLARENCE PAGET said, the Government were now constructing a pier at Holyhead which would add greatly to the safety of passengers and shipping. He