among three gentlemen, whom I assume to | statement, coming from a gentleman of be, all men of honour. Mr. Murray thinks such loose politics, that he himself tells that Captain Carnegie's memory may be in us he always votes for the Governerror, because something had passed in ment-a gentleman who, himself, says he conversation between himself and Captain has one eye to his own interests and Carnegie which the latter might have another to the interests of Dover — is confounded with a conversation which quite sufficient to fix him with corruption. he held with Mr. Churchward. It was Well, Sir, we say now we will not hold evident from that very thing that Mr. ourselves bound by a contract obtained Churchward was pressing his influence with under those circumstances. The House everybody in office that he could apply to, has always exercised a most wise jealousy to get the matter expedited. Well, I say as to the mixture of Government contracts that is a very serious matter. The whole with Parliamentary influence. We know case stood thus. Mr. Churchward's pro- that any person who accepts a Government posal was disapproved by the Post Office; contract is ipso facto disqualified from it was disapproved by Mr. Stephenson, sitting in this House while he holds it, beand by the hon. Baronet the Member for cause the constitution is jealous lest the Stamford himself. It was not until the political influence which belongs to a Mem13th of April that the difficulties which ber of Parliament may be employed to my hon. Friend experienced were removed. obtain the contract, or to affect the interWe all know my hon. Friend, and I am ests or the obligations of the contractor bound to say, that if there were a case in- under it. But where is the difference befinitely stronger against other people, one tween such a man and a Government consingle word from my hon. Friend would con- tractor seeking an extension of the convince me of the purity, sincerity, and honour tract, when there is no pretence of urgency of everything which he himself did. But as to time, when four years of his contract does that determine the question before us, are yet to run, taking advantage of the if we find the contractor and his friends set pressure of a general election, in a poliin motion indirect means, among persons tical crisis on which the fate of the Admiof inferior importance, in order that at that nistration depends, in order to effect the critical time the contract might be ex- immediate settlement of his claim; and tended? It is impossible to trace the ins doing all he can, whether successfully or and outs of this kind of influence. It is not, to enlist the influence of those Memimpossible to tell what wheels within bers of the Government who are at once wheels there might be. If in this case we watching over the contract and over the were to acquit Mr. Churchward of endea- elections? vouring to mix up political with other considerations, merely because he was obliged to obtain the assent of some who could not be influenced by those considerations, it would be impossible in many instances to get over the obscure boundary line between that which is corrupt and that which is honest in public affairs. But there are principles of our law which should guide us here. We know, that when a corrupt agency is employed, no evidence whatever that the person on whose behalf it was employed derived no actual benefit from that agency will release him from the consequences. Mr. Churchward's position in this particular case was perfectly clear. He tells us he was able to command, and did command, fifty votes at Dover, not one of whom failed him in the result; and, according to Captain Carnegie, he said, "They want to throw over the contract until after the elections. I want to vote for you and Mr. Osborne." That would be entirely neutralizing the vote; and that It is for the Committee now to determine whether they continue of the same mind as before or not. But this, at least, I do say, that the Government have done their duty in pursuing the only course which it was open to them to pursue-in bringing the matter under the consideration of the House, in a form and manner consistent with, and necessarily resulting from, the former decision of the House itself. COLONEL DICKSON said, that the hon. and learned Gentleman who had just sat down had favoured the Committee with a dissertation on "loose politics," but such a dissertation could not possibly come with a worse grace from any one than from the Solicitor General himself. The question was, whether this contract was entered into by the late Government from corrupt motives. No proof of these corrupt motives had been attempted to be given. Two matters were involved in the Resolutionone, the character of the gentleman who entered into this contract; the other, the character of the Government by which it | Lowe, rt. hon. R. Question put, Mackie, J. The Committee divided :—Ayes 176; Moncreiff, rt. hon. J. Noes 168 Majority 8. Monsell, rt. hon. W. AYES. North, F. Ellice, E. (St. Ands.) Angerstein, W. Ennis, J. Onslow, G. Esmonde, J. Paget, C. Atherton, Sir W. Evans, T. W. Paget, Lord A. Aytoun, R. S. Ewart, W. Bagwell, J. Ewing, H. E. Crum Baines, E. Fermoy, Lord Potter, E. Price, R. G. Berkeley, Col. F. W. F. Fortescue, C. S. TELLERS. Mr. Brand Bruce, Lord E. Cholmeley, Sir M. J. Colebrooke, Sir T. E. Gregson, S. Grey, rt. hon. Sir G. Gurdon, B. Hardcastle, J. A. Headlam, rt. hon. T. E. Hibbert, J. T. Hodgkinson, G. Adderley, rt. hon. C. B. Bramley-Moore, J. Howard, hon. C. W. G. Bridges, Sir B. W. Hodgson, K. D. Cowper, rt. hon. W. F. Holland, E. Crawford, R. W. Crossley, Sir F. Dalglish, R. Hutt, rt. hon. W. Davey, R. Denman, hon. G. Dering, Sir E. C. Dillwyn, L. L. Douglas, Sir C. Dunlop, A. M. King, hon. P. J. L. E. Brooks, R. Bruce, Major C. Cairns, Sir H. M'C. Cecil, Lord R. Chapman, J. Cochrane, A. D. R. W. B. Corry, rt. hon. H. L. Cubitt, G. Dickson, Colonel Duncombe, hon. W. E. Filmer, Sir E. FitzGerald, W. R. S. Forester, rt. hon. Gen. Gard, R. S. Clive, Capt. hon. G. W. Goddard, A. L. Cobbold, J. C. Noel, hon. G. J. Jolliffe, rt. hon. Sir W. Selwyn, C. J. G. U. Seymer, H. K. Setwart, Sir M. R. S. Lytton, rt. hon. Sir E. Walpole, rt. hon. S. II. G. E.L. B. Whiteside, rt. hon. J. Manners, rt. hn.Lord J. Wynn, Sir W. W. Maguire, J. F. Malcolm, J. W. Malins, R. having been agreed to on a subject which was not a matter of Supply, and the Committee would do well to consider whether an opportunity should not be given of determining the real merits of the question. Nothing could be more simple. The House ought to have an opportunity of considering the new contract which had been substituted for the old one; but at that moment the new one was not even before them. MR. DISRAELI said, he had mentioned the subject, not with a view to try the merits of the question again, though he did not hold himself precluded from that course, but merely with reference to the expediency of discussing the mode in which the Vote had been brought before the Committee. The House had before them an important question, upon which there would probably be a lengthened discussion, and it would be most inopportune at the close of such a discussion to call upon the House to inquire into the propriety of retaining certain constitutional forms of great importance. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, the difficulty was that the service had to be provided for. It was true that an important question would come before the House on the following day, and probably it would not be in the power of the House to discuss the Report of the Resolution until a very late hour. With reference to the state of the service, he did not think the Government would be justified in naming any later day than Thursday in the following week. Wynne, C. G. 28th May. Yorke, hon. E. T. Mowbray, rt. hon. J. R. Naas, Lord TELLERS. Colonel Taylor MR. DISRAELI said, he wished to inquire when the Resolution would be reported? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, it had better be reported on the following day. OFFENCES (SOUTH AFRICA) BILL. [BILL 113.] COMMITTEE. Order for Committee read. MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE explained that the object of the Bill was to amend an Act passed in the 6th and 7th of William IV. for the prevention and punishment of offences committed by Her Majesty's subjects in South Africa. Its chief MR. WALPOLE said, he considered it provision related to Natal. At present, it important to raise the general question on was necessary to send parties who comthe merits, according to the usual practice mitted outrages there to Cape Town for of the House. A new mode of taking trial, a distance of many hundred miles; Votes had been introduced, a Resolution | but it was represented by the Governor of VOL. CLXX. [THIRD SERIES.] 3 Q Natal that it would conduce much more | livings was an incumbrance to the Lord effectually to the ends of justice if these Chancellor, as he had personally experiparties could be tried in the courts of enced; and soon after being appointed to Natal. In the Bill, accordingly, it was that high office, in 1830, he sent a circular provided that these parties should be tried to the right rev. Prelates, making a propoin the courts of that Colony. sition in regard to these benefices, offering to abandon to them the patronage of livings under £100 a year; but he was sorry to say that it did not result in anything being Bill considered in Committee. House resumed. Bill reported, without Amendment; to done. He approved the Bill which had be read 3° To-morrow. ADMIRALTY COURT (IRELAND) BILL. [BILL 45.] COMMITTEE. Order for Committee read. MR. MAGUIRE rose to address the House, when Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; House counted, and 40 Membes not being present, House adjourned at half HOUSE OF LORDS, recently passed through that House, and hoped it would be accepted by the other House, but hoped that some measure would be adopted to put an end to the sale of next presentations. ACTS OF UNIFORMITY AMENDMENT BILL-(No. 1.)-SECOND READING. Order of the Day for the Second Reading read. LORD EBURY rose to move the second reading of this Bill, and (having presented several Petitions in its favour) said, that their Lordships would probably remember that when he made a similar motion to this last year, he did not press it to a division. He had pursued that course, not on account of any hostility to the measure expressed by those of their Lordships who took part in the debate, but because the right rev. Prelate who presided over the diocese of London appealed to him to do so, in order that time might be given to himself and others who were inclined to take a favourable view of the question for consideration before they gave a decided opinion in regard to it. He responded to Second Reading-Acts of Uniformity Amend- that appeal, and had the gratification of ment [..] (No. 1); Stock Certificates to knowing, from the charge delivered by the Bearer (No. 100); Customs and Inland Re-right rev. Prelate last autumn, that further Committee Redemption of Rents (Ireland) [H.L.] (No. 110). Report-Redemption of Rents (Ireland) (No. 110). Third Reading-Marriages, &c. (Ireland)* (No. 93), and passed. Tuesday, May 19, 1863. MINUTES.-PUBLIC BILLS-First ReadingVaccination (Ireland)* (No. 108); Prison Ministers* (No. 109). venue (No. 101). reflection had strengthened his conviction that the time had now arrived when the consideration and settlement of that question could no longer be postponed. It was therefore with some confidence that he now asked their Lordships to give a second AUGMENTATION OF BENEFICES BILL. reading to this Bill. He believed he might OBSERVATIONS. LORD BROUGHAM expressed his regret, that not being present upon the third reading of this Bill, he had not been able to declare his approval of its object. He was not, indeed, so sanguine as to its successful working as the noble and learned Lord who had introduced it; but he believed it would secure a beneficial change in regard to the poorer benefices of the Established Church. The patronage of small say that he brought forward this Motion with the consent, if not, of a majority of the clergy of the Church of England, certainly with the consent of a vast number of that body. They did not like to put themselves forward in this matter, for reasons sufficiently obvious; but he would observe that not a single Petition had been presented against the second reading of this Bill, and their Lordships would recollect that three years ago 10,000 of the clergy signed a petition against any alteration of the Prayer book. The absence of Petitions, therefore, benefice, again must the whole ceremony on this occasion, was significant. Upon be performed, with two additional declarathe former occasion he went so fully into tions enjoined by the Act of Charles II.the history of the Acts of Uniformity, Sub- one, that he will conform to the Liturgy of scription, and Declaration, that he would the Church of England, the other that he not go very largely into them on this occa- gives his unfeigned assent to all and everysion, but would confine himself to as brief thing contained in and prescribed by the an outline as would suffice to recall the Book of Common Prayer; and whenever circumstances to their Lordships' recollec- during the remainder of his life he moved tion-though, in truth, so numerous, com- from one living to another, the same series plicated, and multiplied were they, that it of oaths, declarations, and subscriptions was not easy to be brief and at the same must be renewed; so that, however faithtime intelligible. He thought he could not fully he might have delivered the Gospel better describe the system which he desired message, nothing but the grim hand of to modify, than to trace a candidate for death itself could free him from the reorders at the University of Oxford through quirements of the law. He remembered his career of oaths, affirmations, and sub- now, however, that so far from having overscriptions, from his taking his Master's stated the case he had understated it, for degree, to the end of his life. He thought he had omitted two oaths, one of canonical that expression would provoke a smile; but obedience to the Bishop, the other against their Lordships would in a short time see, simony; which must be added to this intri that though he survived the age of Me- cate list, not to mention a string of queries, thuselah and lived in the strongest odour involving subjects of a like nature, put by of sanctity, the law would not allow him the Bishop to the candidate and respondto stir a step, without again compelling him ed to in terms prescribed by authority. to give fresh bonds and securities that he Thus, then, the sum total of the declarawould not wander from the orthodox fold. tions and subscriptions a clergyman had Upon taking his Master's degree he must to make was, that he had six times to desubscribe the Thirty-nine Articles, accord- clare his assent to the Articles of the ing to the enactments of the 13th of Eliza- Church, seven times to take the oaths of beth, together with the Three Articles of allegiance and supremacy, and nine times the 36th Canon-the first of which is the to declare his adherence to the Prayeroath of allegiance and supremacy; the book. This was swearing with a vengeance, second, a declaration that the Prayer-book exacted of those who were the élite of does not contain anything contrary to the morality and religion in the community. Word of God; the third, that every one of He did not know whether their Lordships the Thirty-nine Articles are agreeable to would agree with him in considering such the Word of God. Having complied with a system as this almost degrading to the these forms, he became, if otherwise clergy and trifling with solemn things, eligible, a Master of Arts, and proceeded but he was sure it was one which could to the Bishop for ordination as deacon not receive their approbation. The true possibly, only a few days after, and he was cause of this and many such anomalies then compelled to make the whole of these which he could name was to be sought and declarations over again, with the addition found in this-that while everything else of another-the oath of supremacy and had been moving on in the spirit and direcallegiance, required by the 1st of Elizabeth. tion of beneficial change, the Church had, By this time they might have supposed for more than two centuries, remained that this candidate for the ministry might absolutely and dangerously stationary. be entitled to be considered a safe man. They were not left in doubt as to the Not so, however; for so jealously did the object of all this complicated machinery; Church guard the portals of its ministry for the enactments by which it was erecte from the possibility of all, even the slightest, speak plainly in regard to it. They tell entrance of error, that when, probably in us that it was "for the avoiding of differthe following year, he asked for priest's ence of opinion in matters of religion, and orders, the whole of these declarations and maintaining the true faith in the unity of subscriptions had again to be gone through spirit, in the bond of peace." Now, had it before he could obtain his wishes; and not succeeded in so doing, it would be an overcontent with this, lest any slippery hetero-whelming argument in favour of the maindox fish should escape through the meshes tenance of the existing status. But had it of this orthodox net, should he obtain a done so? Any one of their Lordships |