self wished that they should pay their way inquire into the nature of the works which by loans. However, the question was as it would be advisable to begin, the working to their prospects for the future. Lanca- power of the Poor Law in the cotton disshire could not and ought not to subsist tricts, the pressure upon the Poor Law sysmuch longer on charity. He thought tem there, and the policy of emigration. power must be given by Parliament to raise There were also various moral and other money upon the rates. The moral aspects aspects of the question which would naof the ensuing year were more serious than turally come before their consideration. the financial. Nearly £2,000,000 had been What Parliament wanted was facts, and expended on charity, and a population num- from the amount of materials which might bering nearly half the entire amount of be brought before them a Commission might paupers in England and Wales had sub- soon form a clear and accurate conclusion sisted on this charitable fund. No fewer on the points which it would be necessary than 80,000 able-bodied men were walking to inquire into. He knew of no reason about in enforced idleness or doing some why the Government should shrink from merely nominal work. He, for one, had no making the inquiry. It would not create fear of their becoming riotous even under false hopes, but, on the other hand, it would another year of pressure, but at the same impart much quietness and assurance to time it was very important that the seeds the inhabitants of the distressed districts of demoralization which had been sown to know that a number of gentlemen were should not be allowed to bear fruit. Some engaged in making an independent and thing, therefore, ought to be done, and done impartial inquiry into the best mode of at once. The Central Committee, in the remedying the evils which they now had to course of the previous week, had passed a endure. There was a fear lest the difficulminute, recommending that Parliament ties which existed would become chronic should, in consideration of the gravity of unless they were checked, while he was the crisis, give greatly-increased powers to satisfied that the effects of a Commission raise money at low rates of interest for long would be highly salutary-better than atperiods; that the municipalities should be tempting to tide over the difficulty by temempowered to contract loans of that kind, porary expedients. He had no fear of the and thus to undertake works which would ultimate revival of the cotton manufacture, otherwise certainly be neglected. They but the great thing, in the mean time, was also stated that they did not approve of to keep up the moral standard of the opeany extensive system of emigration, on the rative classes. He did not ask the Goground that the colonies were not prepared vernment to lend itself to any system of to receive a large influx of labour; and, that public employment, but simply to give adon the other hand, the cotton labourers ditional powers to the town councils to being unseasoned to such employment as enable them to take up the question in a they would be likely to obtain in the colo- practical manner; and he was convinced, nies, the consequences of sending them that if the proposition of his hon. Friend there would probably be dangerous, and the Member for Rochdale - for giving attended with considerable loss of life. He unions the power of borrowing money on believed that the town councils would will- the security of their own property-had ingly undertake the employment of many been agreed to last year, it would have of these men, if they had sufficient powers worked extremely well. He would conto do so; but as they were isolated bodies, clude by moving the Amendment of which and as there was but little cohesion amongst he had given notice, remarking at the same them, it would be necessary that the Legis- time that he was not wedded to the terms lature should step in and inquire into the of his notice, but would cheerfully accept best means of carrying out the propositions. such alteration as might be considered neHe asked, therefore, for a Commission on cessary to render it practically useful. the subject. The first point to which inquiry ought to be directed was the means of obtaining immediate employment for the operatives. The House would agree with him that 80,000 able-bodied men should not be left a single week longer than necessary in enforced idleness. In fact, the Commission had been delayed much too long already. The Commission might also MR. COBDEN seconded the Amendment. Amendment proposed, To leave out from the first word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "an humble address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that She will be graciously pleased to appoint a Royal Commission to inquire into the present state of the Cotton Manufacturing Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question.' Districts, and to report on the best mode of re- bearance, if he might so call it, should lieving the distress existing therein," last for ever. He knew that those people -instead thereof. were impatient and dissatisfied, and, as the hon. Member had stated, might become mischievous, and then the most deplorable results would inevitably ensue. The question the House had to consider was, what they should do under these circumstances. Let them survey the position in which they were then placed. The money in the hands of the various relief committees would probably be sufficient to carry them on until the autumn. But before the beginning of winter the whole of the money subscribed by the public would be exhausted, and they could hardly expect that a new fund could be received from the same quarter. At the commencement of the winter, then, the people would have to depend entirely on parochial relief; and the question was, would the parochial authorities be able to feed and clothe so vast a population during the next winter as they had been fed and clothed during the last? If not, the people would be disappointed and dissatisfied, and violence, outrages, and the most deplorable calamities, and perhaps bloodshed, might follow. That was the prospect before them; and again he asked what was to be done to avert these evils? In the first place, the Government might give assistance to those who were anxious to emigrate; and, in the second place, they might find employment for those-and they would necessarily form the great bulk of the class MR. H. BAILLIE said, there was one point on which he entirely agreed with the hon. Gentleman who had just addressed the House, and that was, that the time had come when it was the duty of the House to consider whether some means might not be adopted to relieve the distress which prevailed in the manufacturing districts other than those merely temporary measures to which they had hitherto had recourse. He knew it had frequently been urged that the distress was only local, and that they ought, therefore, to leave it to be dealt with by the local authorities and by the ordinary operations of the Poor Law. But he believed that would be an unwise and impolitic course. The distress which prevailed was so vast and over whelming, the population involved was so great, that they could not regard the case in any other light than as a great national calamity, and as such they ought to be prepared to meet it. It was a question, in the solution of which they were all deeply interested, no matter what part of the country they might represent. They had been told on good authority-the authority of the hon. Gentleman who had just spoken-that the master manufacturers of Lancashire were unwilling that any change should be effected in the present mode of administering relief. They thought it would be wise to continue the system of relief, such as it was, for some time longer, in the hope that the civil war in America might speedily be brought to a close, and the prosperity of the trade soon revive. That was, no doubt, a consummation devoutly to be wished; but he confessed he was surprised to find that the master manufacturers, reputed to be so shrewd and intelligent, should entertain such short-sighted views. They knew that that vast population of half a million of people had for eighteen months been eating the bread of idleness; they knew that the longer that state of things continued the more demoralized the people must become, the more disheartened, and the less capa ble of helping themselves. They were all ready to admit that the operatives had, for the most part, been well conducted; but they could hardly expect that that for who were anxious to remain at home. That was not the first time, in the history of the country, that large bodies of the people in this country had been thrown out of employment. About twenty-five years ago, when the free trade policy was first adopted, a considerable reduction had been made in the duty on barilla, and the consequence was, that about 30,000 people engaged in the manufacture of kelp in the Hebrides and in the north of Scotland had been reduced to a state of great distress. There was at that time no Poor Law in Scotland, but a stringent law of that description had soon afterwards been passed. That remedy having proved to be insufficient, the proprietors did what they could to relieve the people. A famine, however, ensued, and the Government could not longer hold aloof. They not only sent assistance to the people in the shape of food, but fitted up a line-of-battle ship as a passenger ship to carry a number of them to Australia. He did not see why the same course should not be pursued in the hon. Member who had moved the Amend. present instance, and why the Government ment seemed to think the Government had should not employ some of those men-of- been asleep, but the fact was they had had war which were lying idle in their harbours their own Commissioner, who had reported in conveying a number of those distressed once a week on the state of the distresed Lancashire operatives to Canada, Austra- districts. They were perfectly well aware lia, and other colonies. That was not the of the condition of those districts, and only occasion on which such a policy had therefore he could not see that the services been adopted. In the year 1820, when of a Royal Commission were necessary. His there was great distress in the manufactur- objection to the Amendment was, that what ing districts of the west of Scotland, funds it proposed would cause delay. For emiwere granted from the Imperial treasury, gration, one of the modes by which it was and the people were assisted to emigrate proposed to relieve the distress, the season to the Auckland Islands and ot her districts. would soon have passed over. If it were But he might be asked the question-delayed for three months, emigration to and it was a natural one what was to Canada would be out of the question; bebecome of the vast capital invested in cause if people were sent there in the aubuildings and machinery-what would be tumn, they would have to face the winter the case if cotton again became cheap and in the colony without a chance of finding the masters wanted hands to work it? The employment. When the Irish famine was answer was that the number which could looming in the distance, Lord George Benbe removed by emigration was so small tinck brought forward a Motion in that that there could be no fear of their removal House, and developed a scheme for the causing any want of labour for good wages. employment of the Irish people in the conThe question would be simply whether the struction of railways. He was opposed cotton manufacturers could give better wages by the Government of the day, and he was than were to be procured at other employ- one of those who voted against him. He ments. If they could not, it would be bet- must confess that he should always regret ter that the people should not be employed his vote on the occasion. He regretted it at the manufacture of cotton. The main when he found the evils which had arisen object of emigration was the employ from the inaction of the Government and ment of the people, but there were other from allowing things to take their course. lans by means of which employment could It was true the Government did interfere; be given to great numbers of them. They but their interference came too late. The had placed large sums of money at the dis- people were so reduced through famine and posal of the Government for fortifications, disease that they perished in thousands. but a very small portion of that had been Millions sterling of the public money were laid out. They were told that £500,000 wasted, and nearly 2,000,000 of the Irish was the amount of the estimate for fortifi- people were swept away. Let them not cations at the mouth of our great rivers. have the horrors of the Irish famine reIf those fortifications were to be erected, vived. Up to the present time the Goudging from the position of foreign affairs, vernment had felt it their duty not to interthe sooner they were built the better; and fere directly for the relief of the distress he saw no reason why the Government in Lancashire. They had looked on. should not commence them at once, and did not blame them for having adopted select from the different parishes in Lanca- that course. On the contrary, up to the shire men to work at them. No doubt, present time, he believed it was the best those men might not do as much of that course they could have pursued; but the kind of work in the same period of time time for inaction had ceased. A great as navvies, but it would be very desirable calamity was looming in the distance, and to employ so many of the Lancashire it was the duty of Parliament and the Gopeople, and at the same time to be going on vernment not to waste time by making idle with the defences of the country. He inquiries or seeking for information which should add, however, that he should pro- they already possessed. A great responsitest against giving any such employment if bility must rest with the Government. the men were not to receive the whole of the Ministers of the Crown should shrink the usual amount of remuneration. He from the performance of their obligations would next pass to the consideration of the with reference to the people of Lancashire, Amendment; and he should say that he they would be disregarding what he held to saw no necessity for its adoption. The be a first duty of a Government—namely, He If the duty of providing for the safety and well-being of the great body of the people. MR. C. P. VILLIERS: Sir, I rise to make some observations upon the Motion and the Amendment which have been submitted to the House this evening upon this question, both because I wish to mark my respect for the hon. Gentlemen who respectively brought them forward, and because they have more or less reference to the Department over which I preside. But I own I have some little difficulty in discovering to what points I can address myself in reference to what has fallen from the hon. Gentleman who has made the Motion, or the hon. Gentleman who has moved the Amendment. The hon. Member who brought forward the Motion made a series of observations upon matters which have ceased to excite much interest in this House, or in the country. I presume the hon. Gentleman may have been induced to take that course, on returning to this House, after being absent for a very considerable period, from the impression that the same feeling existed, and the same Members were to be found here, that he saw when last he had a seat in this House; but the hon. Gentleman seems to have met with some disappointment, when he went into the manufacturing districts, and assembled persons around him whose position was the same as those whom he was wont to address in former times. He told us that he inquired how it was that none of those whom he was accustomed to meet were present, and that their answer was, that true it was all that generation had passed away; and though they were interested in meeting him, from his reputation, there were none present who knew him in connection with past services. I think that was somewhat the kind of reception which the hon. Gentleman met with this evening in this House. At all events, the style of the hon. Member's address was such that I do not know to what point in his Motion he addressed himself. I imagined he was about to propose something like a censure on the Government for having neglected its duty, up to this time, with respect to the distress existing in the cotton manufacturing districts; but, so far as I could follow him, he never referred to anything that the Government had done lately, and I understood him to end with something like a compliment to the noble Lord at the head of the Government. The greater part of the hon. Member's address, indeed, seemed to me to be in answer to a speech not yet delivered. He certainly reflected very severely on the manufacturers, and particularly on the hon. Member (Mr. Potter) for some letter which he has addressed to a newspaper, but I did not understand the hon. Member to cast any reproach on the Government. The hon. Gentleman, however, thinks it necessary that a Resolution should be passed calling on the Government to do its duty, but he has not shown that it has in any respect neglected its duty. I do not find fault with him for that. On the contrary, I feel rather grateful to him. No doubt, the speech of the hon. Gentleman was very interesting. It was refreshing. It reminded me how many years had passed since those same tones had been heard, and I may say, in the same mode of exaggeration. In passing, I may just allude to what he was so good as to refer to in regard to myself, and there I recognise the hon. Member again, because he rather imputes to me something that was inhuman or unworthy-a charge which, I think, was wholly unsupported by facts. I understood him to charge me with having assented to the views of a deputation which came to the Poor Law Board to suggest the deportation of orphans and of children, who were happy and joyous in this town, to be subjected to the degradation and misery which they invariably met with in the manufacturing districts. As far as I can tax my memory, the matter referred to me had relation to the construction of the Act of Parliament, and not to my feelings respecting the condition of those people. The question I had to decide was whether it was possible for the guardians of a union in London to give their sanction to the departure of the pauper children from London to be employed in the manufacturing districts. I have been reminded, since the hon. Member spoke, that my opinion was that the law did not sanction the removal of those children for that purpose. I understood the hon. Member for Devonport to speak chiefly of the manufacturers in Lancashire. The hon. Member complained of their conduct in past years, and says, that now he has returned to the House again, he finds the same reason to complain. He finds them selfish. and resorting to the same course they adopted before. His chief object seemed to be to impress the House with a sense of his indifferent opinion of that class. Iject, and never do I recollect an instance do not understand what course he proposed in which so much publicity has been given the Government should take. He was not good enough to intimate to the Government how they were to adopt measures "to relieve the distress in the cotton districts, so that the people may no longer continue unemployed. Various suggestions have been made, and I thought the hon. Member would have named one of them, or would have suggested some plan of his own for giving employment to the weavers in Lancashire. I thought he might have proposed to release those who are bound to support them, and that the Government should undertake by public means to maintain them; but the hon. Member did not make that proposal. I do not know how the House will vote on this Motion, because he has not stated what he wants the Government to do or what they have not done. to every fact connected with the condition of the suffering people, I do not think any person is in ignorance either of the cause or the extent of the distress, or of the remedy for it; but it is unsatisfactory to admit that we do not know how soon that remedy may arrive. We can state in a few words the number of persons engaged in this cotton trade, the number depending upon relief of a charitable character, and those that we want to supply with the means of support in another way. That is all the information we want, and I do not know that we can get any more. We know the number engaged in the cotton manufacture, we know the number of persons destitute and suffering from the simple cause that the material on which their labour was employed cannot be obtained as cheaply as formerly; we know The hon. Member for Carlisle likewise that upwards of 500,000 persons are conproposes that the Government should un- nected with the manufacture, that 410,000 dertake to relieve the distress in the manu- persons are depending upon charitable refacturing districts, and he is desirous that lief, and that the number of able-bodied the Government should issue a Royal Com- men, representing that population of mission to inquire and report as to the best 410,000, and whom it is now wanted mode of giving that relief. I understand my to employ, was 72,000. It is the object hon. Friend to say that he wants informa- of every committee to give them relief that tion, though my impression was that my they may recover their independent posihon. Friend was in possession already of tion. That is the simple condition we are information that other persons had not in. If the inquiry should last for a year, obtained. If he does possess information, I do not see any result that can be obtainhe would hardly do justice to himself if he ed, except that about which there can be does not disclose it to us. I am as anxious no doubt-the amount of destitution that as any person to have all the information exists, and the number of persons we want possible on the subject. I assure the to relieve. I suppose, that if the hon. House I desire to be thoroughly informed Member for Devonport had really stated on the matter. I am sure nothing could what he intended, it would have been be more interesting than all the informa- found that he wanted those 72,000 men to tion the Royal Commission would publish be taken charge of by the Government. after a given time; but notwithstanding what I think the hon. Member for Carlisle urged the hon. Member said, from which it was the adoption of some scheme of which emirather to be assumed that there is con- gration would form a part, but I do not siderable ignorance on the part of the Go- think it is the business of the Government vernment, and especially on the part of the to advance the public money to encourage Poor Law Board, I cannot persuade myself, emigration. I do not mean to say that that if this Commission were to inquire, we the Government should discourage emigra should practically be in a better position tion. I think every information should be to act than we are now. I believe there given by the Government to people wishing has never been an occasion when manu- to emigrate, respecting the dependencies of facturing depression could be traced to so the British Crown to which it would be simple and single a cause, and rare indeed desirable to proceed; but a country is in have been the cases in which such univer- a bad state when the Government is callsal interest has been expressed for the ed upon to assist the people to emigrate misfortune that has fallen upon the victims with public money. I do not think we in the distressed districts. The conse- are sunk to that yet. I can bear my quence is, that there has been a demand testimony to the statement that has been for every kind of information on the sub-made that a few years ago the capital |