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Graham Hastings for Mr. Thomas.
was to be dealt with according to the law of

March 15 and 16.
Sir R. Biggal ay, Q.C. and F. C. J. Millar for England, and as the Registration of Bills of Sale

HICKS v. Ross. the official lignidator.

Act did not apply where the goods were in WillConstruction - Annuity - Perpetual or for Lori Romilly said that Mr. Thomas agreed to foreign parts, i e. out of England, the assign

life. take 1000 shares on the faith of his position in ment was valid without registration.

THOMAS Ross, by his will, dated the 25th Ang. the company, and that on his position being

Solicitors : J. M. Yetts; Slee, Ovans, and 1868, gave, devised, and bequeathed all his real changed by his resigning the secretaryship, the Bayley.

and personal estate to trustees upon trust to pay directors released him from his liability to take

certain legacies and annuities, the testator then the 154 shares still remaining, which he thought

continued, “I also leave the sum of £800 per they had power to do, and his name must there.

Saturday, March 16

annum out of the proceeds of the profit of the fore be removed from the list of contributories.


working of my East Indian estate to be approSolicitors : G. Freeborn; Jones, Blauwland, and Practice-Partition Act 1868 (31 & 32 Vict c. 40) - education of the eight children now alive of Mrs.

priated by my trustees to the maintenance and Son.

Parties interested resident in AustraliaPay. Isabella Hicks, provided the said children shall

ment of purchase money to trustee.
This was an application for the payment to a

exchange the name of Hicks for that of Ross, March 9 and 14.

trustee of money produced by the sale of land under forfeiture of the said £800 per annum MEINERTZHAGEN v. WALTERS.

If any of the under the Partition Act 1868 (31 & 32 Vict. c. 40). should they decline to do so. Gift of residue to wife and children-Advancement The purchase money had been paid into court, and said children shall die their mother shall have the to children in lifetime of testator-Hotch pot. was now represented by the sum of £ 12,500 Con- shares. The trustees shall have the power, should

benefit of the deceased child or children's share or This was an administration suit in which the tes. , sols. This fund was divisible into thirteenths. titor, after bequeathing certain legacies, devised Eight of the persons interested in this fund, two anyone of the said children get into debt, to forfeit and bequeathed all the residue of his real and per. of whom were married women, were resident in their share or shares and divide it with' the other

children. The trustees shall have the power to sonal estate upon trust as to ono moiety thereof, Anstalia to pay the income to his wife for life, and as to the kay, QC. and L. Field, for the plaintiff (the sell the East Indian estate should the profits of other moiety to divide the same among his children. surviving trustee of the settlement) and his wife, the working not be sufficient to pay the annuities

to the children of Mrs. Hicks; the proceeds of The testator during his lifetime had made consider who was entitled to one share, asked that the fund

the sale to be invested in the names of the trustees able advances to his children. The questions now in court might be paid out to the plaintiff, or to

“for the benefit of the said children." Mrs. Hicks were, whether the sums so advanced were to be him, and a new trustee to be approved by the

was a daughter of the testator. The question was taken into account in dividing the moiety of the court, to be by them paid to the persons entitled, so residue amon; the children, and whether the as to avoid the expense and delay which would other: whether the annuity was intended to be perpetual moiety of the residue to which the widow was enwise be incurred in consequence of so many of the

or for some limited period.

Amphlett, Q.C. and Bush were for Mrs. Hicks' titled, consisted merely of a moiety of the actual persons interested being resident in Australia, if

children. residue.or of a moiety of the residue as increased by these shares were paid out in the usual manner. bringing into account the advancements made to

E. C. Dunn on behalf of the other persons inte

Kay, Q.C. and Terrell for the residuary legatee. the children by the testator in his lifetime. rested, supported the applicationi.

Eddis, Q. C., Swanston, Q. C., Nalder, and

Housley for other parties. Edluis, Q C. and Vaughan Hawkins appeared on The VICE-CHANCELLOR did not think he would

The VICE-CHANCELLOR said that the testator behalf of the widow.

be justified in making the order asked for, and evidently intended to provide for his grandehil. Amphlet', QC, Charles Hall, Jackson, Cracknall directed tho fund to be paid out to the persons dren, and for that purpose charged all his proanni Latham, appeared for the children.

interested in the usual manner. The VICE-CHANCELLOR held that the widow was Solicitors for all parties: Field, Roscoe, Field and perty with this annuity, which he was of opinion

was intended to be perpetual, and the children entitled to the income of a moiety of the actual Francis.

were therefore entitled to such a sum as would residue only; but that in settling the shares of the

produce an annuity of £800. children, the sums which had been advanced to


Solicitors : Fladgate, Clarke, and Finch ; Theo. them by the testator in his lifetime, must be taken

bald. into consideration.

Practice-Production of documentsPartnership Solicitors : Freshfields ; Gregory, Rowcliffe, Row.

accounts--Erecutors. clije and Rawle; Kimber and Ellis, THIS was a summons for the production of

Wednesday, March 20. documents. The bill was filed for the administra

MERRY v. NICKALLS. tion of the estate of Richard Vyse, against the Transfer of shares-Infant transferee-Tsages of Thursday, March 14.

executors of his will. The testator, at the time the Stock Erchange-Liablility of jobber. BEAK V. BEAK.

of his death, was in partnership with the defen- PLAINTIFF, in July 1865, was the registered owner

dant and two other persons. After his death the of fifty shares in the General Estates Company Donatio mortis causa-Gift of cheque and delivery defendants employed the testator's money in (Limited), which he instructed his broker, Burnand,

of banli pass book-Cheque not presenteil in carrying on the business of the partnership. The to sell. On the 11th July Burnand agreed with

donor's lifetime. This was an application on behalf of the nephew plaintiff who was a daughter of the testator, defendant, a stockjobber, to sell the shares

, and required the defendants to make an affidavit of on the 31st Ang. the defendant, in accordance of the testator in the cause, to be allowed to prove documents, and to produce such books and with the usage of the Stock Exchange, passed on for £1000 against the testator's estate. On the documents as related to the testator's share in to Burnand a ticket, with name of Edward Richard 14th July the testator gave to his nephew a cheque for £1000, and at the same time delivered the business. This the defendants refused to do, Lloyd as the person to whom the shares were to to him his bank pass book. The testator died on on the grounds that they related to the partner: be transferred. The plaintiff accordingly executed

a transfer of the shares to Lloyd, and the transfer the following day, and on the day after his death ship affairs, and were in the joint custody of the the cheque was presented for payment, but the partners, two of whom were not parties to the and the share certificates were hande l by Burnand

suit. bankers, having received notice of the testator's

to a broker named Allen, who thereupon paid to death, refused payment.

Kay, Q.C. and Romer were for the plaintiff. Burnand £275, as the price of the shares, and Amphlett, Q.C. and W. W. Karslake, in support fendants.

Amphlett, Q.C. and Kouclije were for the de- £1 7s. 6d. for the stamp. On the 27th Nov. 1866 of tho application, submitted that the delivery

an order was made for winding-up the company

The VICE-CHANCELLOR ordered the defendants under the supervision of the court, and the plainof the pas; book at the time of giving the cheque to produce all the documents in their possession tiff then, for the first time, discovered that Lloyd constituteil it a good donatio mortis cuusi.

was an infant, and that the transfer of the shares Koy, Q.C. Swanston, Q.C., Cookson, and Graham relating to the matters in question in the suit, Hastings, appeared for other parties.

and to make an affidavit setting out a list of the to him had not been registered. A call was sub

documents in the possession of the firm. The VICE-CHANCELLOR held that the delivery

sequently made by order of the court in respect of of the pass book did not have the effect of making

Solicitors for the plaintiff, Fox and Robinson.

which the plaintiff was directed to pay £900. He the gift a good donatio mortis causil and that

Solicitors for the defendants, Gregory, Rowcliffe, accordingly filed his bill against the defendant, therefore the summons must be dismissed. Rowclitje and Rawle.

praying to be indemnified against all past and

future liability in respect of the call, or otherwise Solicitors: Price, Bolton, and Co.; Crowdy, Deane

by reason of the plaintiff's name having remained and Clubb.


on the register. It was alleged by Allen that he CostsTaxation - Perusing affidavitsThree

acted in this transaction as the agent of one Friday, March 15.


Hodges, who instructed him to procure a transfer COOTE V. JECKS.

In taxing the defendant's costs of this suit, in of the shares into the name of Lloyd. It was con- Assignment of chattels and leaseholds in Scot. which the bill had been dismissed with costs, the tended on behalf of the defendant that the

land-Bankrup'cy of assignor-Registration of taxing master had refused to allow the defendant's plaintiff's remedy (if any) was against Hodges; Bills of Sale Act (17 & 18 Vict. c. 36).

solicitor the costs of perusing several affidavits of and that at all events the defendant was not CHARLES JECKS, being indebted to Thomas Coote, which he had not taken office copies. It ap. liable, inasmuch as by the rules and usage of the by an agreement dated the 7th Jan. 1871, agreed to peared that the solicitor perused all the affi. Stock Exchange, the jobber had fulfilled all the pledge all the furniture and effects which he had davits in the office of the clerks of records and obligations required of him when the name of the at Glenmorven, in Argyleslıire, and also the lease writs, and, finding they were all alike, he only transferee had been passed, the price of the shares and building on the same, to Thomas Coote, of took an office copy of one. The taxing master had paid, and the deed of transfer accepted by the Bournemouth, for all or any interest he might owe also disallowed the fee to the defendant's leading broker acting for the buyer. him up to July 1871, at which time he might sell counsel, in consequence of there being three Eldis, Q.C. and Horace Davey, for the plainthe whole, if the interest was not paid. At the time counsel, which was owing to the fact that after tiffs. of making this agreement, Jecks deposited the the leading counsel had been engaged, the defen- Higgins, Q.C. and Buchanan, for the defenlease of the Glenmorven estate with Coote. Jecks dant's juuior counsel was called within the bar, dant. subsequeutly became bankrupt. Both Jecks and and it tlien became necessary to employ another The VICE-CHANCELLOR held that the case was Coote were Englishmen, and residing in England junior. The defendant now applied that the governed by Rennie v. Morris (25 L. T. Rep. N. S. at the time the above agreement was entered into. taxing master might be directed to review his 862), and that the defendant was not liable to inJecks' assignee contended that the agreement taxation.

demnify the rlaintiff. The bill was accerdingly was void as against him, on the grounds that if it Kay, Q.C. and Eddis, Q.C. appeared in support dismissed without costs. was to he moverned by the law of Scotland, it was of the application.

Solicitors : W. A. Crump; Morley, and Shirreff. bad as to the 'urniture and effects without delivery,

The plaintiff did not appear. and as to the lease without registration; but if ac- The VICE-CHANCELLOR said that the solicitor cording to the law of England, then it was bad as was entitled to a fee upon every affidavit which

V.C. WICKENS'S COURT. to the furniture and effects for want of registration he had perused, whether he took an office copy of

Wednesday, March 13. in pursuance of the provisions of the Registration it or not; and as to the counsel's it also must

HEXT v. GILL. of Bills of Sale Act (17 & 18 Vict. c. 36.)

be allowed, as, under the circumstances, it was Conveyance— Reservation of mines anil mineralsKay. Q. C. and Batten were for the plaintiff. only reasonable that three counsel should be em.

China clay-Mineral. Bagshawe, for the assignee.

ployed. The VICE-CHANCELLOR said that the assignment

The questions in this case were, whether kaolin, Solicitors : Flux and Co.

or china clay, was or was not included in a reser.



vation of mines and minerals in a conveyance demurrer (Vide “Notes of the Week,” March 9th), broke, died 12th Feb. 1871, leaving two testa from the Duchy of Cornwall, and whether, if it now came before the court on a motion on behalf of mentary papers, duly executed. The first was in were so included, the kaolin could be so worked as the Attorney-General and relators for an interim the following terms : to destroy the surface under which it lay. The injunction. The object of the suit was to restrain the This is the last will and testament of me, G. D. conveyance, after granting the land, cortained an mayor, aldermen, and burgesses of the borough of Griffith, of Berry-hill, in the county of Pembroke. I exception or reservation“ unto his Royal Highness Batley from purchasing a chain and badge for the give and devise all my real and personal estate to my the Prince of Wales, his heirs and successors, Dukes mayor out of the borongh rates. The terms of and to their heirs and assigns for ever. I appoint thé

brother-in-law, James Bowen, and Dorothea his wife, of Cornwall, of all mines and minerals within and notice of motion were that the mayor, aldermen, said James Bowen the sole executor of this my will under the land ;" and further reserved a right and burgesses, their council, treasurer, officers, and testament. As witness my hand this 31st Jan, to his Royal Highness, his heirs and successors, and agents, might be restrained by injunction from 1857,

J. D. GRIFFITH, and his and their lessees, their agents and work purchasing or otherwise providing out of the

Witnessed by us in the presence of each other, men, to take, use, and work the excepted mines borough or district rates, or out of any other


CAROLINE JAMES, and minerals. In 1854 the duchy, under the reser- rates levied or to be levied for public purposes

The second document was in the following vation of mines and minerals, granted a lease of within the borough. The chain and badge in terms: tin and china clay. In 1857 the defendant pur. question, or any similar or other decoration This is the last will and testament of me, G. D. Griffith, chased the whole of the manorial rights ofthe duchy for the present use or adornment of the late of Bellan, in the county of Pembroke, I give and in the prsperty, including the rights under the mayor for the time being of the borough. devise to my niece Anna Maria, the daughter of my late revocation, and since that time he had worked The arguments principally turned on the Muni- sister Easter, the wife of Benjamin Evans, the sum of the china clay in question, first on a moor adjoin- cipal Corporation Act (5 & 6 Will. 4, c. 76), the £1000; to my sister Dorothea, wife of James Bowen, the ing the plaintiff's land, and afterwards he ex- 92nd section of which enacts that all corporate mainder to my little niece Ellen.

sum of £200, to my niece Maria £100, and all the re

I hope Daniel will tended the workings into the plaintiff's property. property shall be brought within the borough have something ; and I hope I shall be buried at Nevem, Thereupon the plaintiff instituted this suit to fand, and then enacts how the money shall be in the county of Pembroke. J. D. GRIFFITI. restrain him. On behalf of the plaintiff it was applied. First, to the payment of debts contracted

15th June 1857.

DANIEL MATTHIAS. contended that china clay was not a mineral previously to the passing of the Act; then to the

HENRY DAVIES. within the meaning of the reservation, and that payment of the salaries of the borough officials,

Contentious proceedings were commenced to set if it were, the reservation did not confer a right to the costs of prosecutions, the maintenance of the aside the will, but they were ultimately discon. work it so as to destroy the surface. For the borough gaol, and the payment of constables. tinued, and all parties entitled in distribution had defendant, on the other hand, it was insisted that The statute then goes on to say, " And all other signed an agreement to allow probate to be taken china clay was a mineral, and that, having expenses not herein otherwise provided for, of the two papers. regard to the fact that the customary mode of which shall be necessarily incurred in carry

Searle accordingly moved for probate. working mines in the neighbourhood, at the time ing into effect the provisions of this Act, and in

The COURT.-But the second paper revokes the of the grant, was wholly destructive of the surface, case the borough fund shall be


more than the right to work reserved by the deed carried the sufficient for the purposes aforesaid, the surplus

Searle.- The appointment of executor in the right to destroy the surface in so doing if thereof shall be applied, under the direction of first is not revoked, and to that extent it will necessary.

the council, for the public benefit of the inhabi- stand. He referred to In the Goods of Leese (2 S. Sir Roundell Palmer, Q.C., Eddis, Q.C., and tants and improvement of the borough." A pre- & T. 442) ; In the Goods of Graham (3,5. & T. 70). Boger, for the plaintiff. liminary objection was taken on behalf of the de

The COURT.-That is so. You may take proThe Solicitor-General, Karslake, Q.C., and fendants that the proper tribunal was the Court bate of both papers. Phear, for the defendant. of Queen's Bench, and the proper remedy a writ

Attorneys, G. L. P. Eyre and Co. The VICE-CHANCELLOR decided that the china of certiorari. clay was ineluded in the reservation of mines and Greene, Q.C. and W. Barber for the motion. minerals, and dismissed the bill with costs. Karslake, Q.C. and Ince contra.

LEGISLATION AND JURISSolicitors : S. T. Gill; Bell, Brodrick and Gray, The VICE-CHANCELLOR granted the injunction.

for Beeves and Boger, Stonehouse, Devonshire. Solicitors : Ridsdale, Craddock and Ridsdale,
for Chadwick and Son, Dewsbury; Edward Layton

Thursday, March 14.


Monday, March 18.
Thames Embankment Act 1862, s. 62-Compensa.


LORD WESTBURY asked the noble and learned tion - Arbitration - Action at law -- Suit in

Tuesday, March 19.

lord on the woolsack whether he would have any equity-Election-Injunction.

(Before Lord PENZANCE.)

objection to lay on the table of the Honse the This was a motion for an interim injunction to

In the Goods of SCHARF.

letters written by learned judges to the Judicature restrain the Marquis of Salisbury from proceed. Will of foreigner born made abroad-English introduce his Bill for the establishment of a new

Commission ; also when he would be prepared to ing with an action at law to recover from the

domicil acquired--Probate. Metropolitan Board of Works a sum of £10,645. The deceased was born in Saxony, but lived in CHANCELLOR said that the correspondence to

Court of Appellate Jurisdiction.— The LORD By the Thames Embankment Act 1862, s. 62, London, carried on business there, and became a full and free rights of communication and liveryman of several companies. He acquired been placed before the committees of the Judica

which his noble and learned friend alluded had access and egress at all times to and from property in England, and invested it in British ture Commission, and had been made considerable the land reclaimed by the commissioners were undertakings. Late in life he became afflicted reserved to the marquis, his heirs and assigns, with rheumatic pains, and bought a residence in the Commission, four sets of remarks drawn up by

use of by them. He had obtained, as returned by and his and their lessees and tenants of houses in Savoy, where he died, having made a will before learned judges.' The others he had not as yet reCecil-street and Salisbury-street. Shortly after the British consul at Geneva according to the the embankment had been proceeded with the

ceived. The communication of the Lord Chief British law. marquis, in pursuance of the above reservation,

Justice was a full and copious one, and there were claimed' a right to a carriage way across it. and read affidavits that the deceased had always courts of equity as well as from judges of courts

Payford now moved for probate of this will, communications of some length from judges of Certain matters in dispute between the marquis regarded England as his home, and meant to of common law. He had applied to one of those and the Board of Works were referred to arbi.

return here. trators, who awarded to the marquis the above

learned judges to know whether he had any objec

The Court made the grant. mentioned sum as compensation; the question,

tion to the production of his remarks. The reply however, of the carriage way was not directly sub

Attorney, Roy.

was that on principle the learned judge did not mitted to the arbitrators, but the 62nd section of

want them produced, because he thought that the

SHEPPEARD v. BEETHAM AND OTHERS. the Act was considered by them. The car

freedom with which such communications were

In the Goods of C. A. READ, deceased. made from time to time would be interfered with riage way had not been made for the marquis, and he now insisted that compensation with Next of kin subpoenaed to give evidence as to the if they were afterwards produced. He must say respect to it had not been included in the award

condition of the family.

that to a certain he shared in the feeling thus exof £10,615, and that he was entitled to sue at law The plaintiff propounded the will of Cordelia pressed. He understood from his noble and for it.' With that view he had commenced an Angelica Read, late of Stamford-street, Lambeth, learned friend that the Lord Chief Justice had no action. Previously, however, he had instituted a in the county of Surrey. They cited all the objection to the production of his opinions, and if suit, which was still pending, to compel the Board next of kin within their knowledge, and in that were so there would be no difficulty in laying of Works to make the road.' Hence this motion. serted advertisements calling on aủ persons them on the table. If his noble and learned friend In support of the motion it was urged that com- interested to appear. The defendants were first desired it he would apply to the other judges to pensation for the claim of the carriage way had cousins of the testatrix, and entered an appearance know whether they had any objection to a similar been included in the award, but in any case it was

but took no further steps. A summons was taken course being adopted in the case of their opinions, inequitable to sue the Board of Works in Equity out by the plaintiff's, calling on the defendants On Thursday next he would make a statement on for the carriage way and at law for the value of it, to file the usual affidavit of scripts, whereupon the subject of the Bill for the establishment of a as not awarded. The board were entitled to an

the defendants' solicitor attended in chambers, new Court of Appellate Jurisdiction. injunction, but at all events the marquis must and stated that they withdrew from further pro

Tuesday, March 19. -elect whether he would continue to proceed at law ceedings. The defendants were the first cousins

of the deceased, but all members of the family, Greene, Q.C., and Charles Hall for the motion. and the deceased was the daughter of one of ten

Lord Cairns, in order to prevent any misunder. Eddis, Q.C. and W. W. Karslake contra.

or eleven brothers and sisters. The plaintiffs standing as to what had been said by his noble The VICE-CHANCELLOR granted the injunction,

were anxious that all the next of kin should be and learned friend on the woolsack last night, and but ordered the Board of Works to pay into court

also on a former occasion, wished to make one or cited ; and a sum representing that awarded, with interest.

Searle now moved on their behalf for a subpona two observations. Out of doors there was an im. Solicitor for the Board of Works, William Wyke on the defendants, under the 24th section of the pression that his noble and learned friend had

Probate Court, calling on them to appear before submitted his Bill for a New Court of Appellate Solicitors for the Marquis of Salisbury, Nicholson one of the registrars, to be examined as to the Jurisdiction and other law Bills to the Judicature and Herbert. condition of the family.

Commission, and that they had been considered The Court made the order under the condition by a committee of that commission. Now, as a

member of the commission, he knew that no Bill Monday, March 18. that the parties should receive all their reason.

had been submitted to it by his noble and ATTORNEY-GENERAL AND COLBECK, AND MARable expenses.

learned friend, and, consequently, no Bill of RIOT v. THE MAYOR, ALDEPMEN, AND BURAttorney, A. J. Sheppeard.

his noble and learned friend could have been GESSES OF BATLEY.

referred by the commission to a committee Municipal Corporation Act (5 & 6 Will. 4. c. 76)—

In the Goods of GRIFFITH.

of its members. There was no responsibility Purchase of chain for mayor out of borough Two testamentary papers.-The latter revoked the on the part of the commission in respect of any rates-Motion to restrain purchase-Jurisdiction bequests in the former, but no mention in it of Bills introduced by his noble and learned friend. -Injunction.

erecutors.- Probate granted of both.

He wished to call attention to another error into This case, which was heard on the 29th ult., on G. D. GRIFFITH, of Bellan, in the county of Pem. which he believed his hon. and learned friend had


or in equity.




fallen. It had reference to the appellate business should be obtainable in England, Scotland, and never consent to part with its right of finally con. of their lordships' House. His noble and learned Ireland on application to a permanent tribunal of trolling every branch of its legislation. (Hear, friend was reported to have said some time ago a judicial character, before which promoters and hear.) He wished to keep on the safe side, and to that when he first took his seat in that House the opponents should be heard in open court, and the say that in the suggestions which he was about appeals were two sessions and a half in arrear. decisions of which should be subject to confirma- to make he had no intention whatever to urge that He was surprised when he read that statement, tion by Parliament. (4.) That in case of either House to part with any of its jurisdiction over its because it did not at all accord with his recol. House of Parliament admitting an appeal against own legislation. He merely proposed that it should lection. He now held in his hand a return, which a decision of the tribunal in the matter of any consent to remit its own original jurisdiction to a showed how the appeal business stood at the provisional order, such provisional order should specially organised tribunal, with a view of ar. beginning and at the end of the session of 1868, be referred to a parliamentary tribunal, composed, riving at a speedy, satisfactory, and when he had the honour to occupy the place now in the manner recommended in 1869 by the joint economical mode of proceeding with its private filled by his noble and learned friend. From that committee of the House of Lords and the House Bill inquiries, whilst reserving to itself the ultireturn he found that at the beginning of the ses. of Commons on the despatch of business in Parlia mate control over all matters appertaining to such sion of 1868, the session immediately preceding the ment, of members of both Houses.” The hon. legislation. (Hear, hear.). Assumning, then, that advent of his noble and learned friend to the wool. gentleman said that the defects of our system of the House would concur in this arrangement as sack, the number of appeals set down for hearing private Bill legislation were so well known and forming the original basis of his plan, the ques. was forty-two, and the number heard during the admitted he need not take up the time of the tion that next arose was, to what external tribunal session was thirty-eight, leaving four. He did House in dwelling upon them. Private legislation should this original jurisdiction be remitted? If not like to state positively the reason why these often necessitated judicial investigation, and a provisional orders were to be applied generallyfour stood over, but he believed it was be. committee of that House was sometimes called to all matters great and small-they must be cause the parties objected to their being taken upon to arrive at conclusions involving a nice made by the members of a tribunal who would up at a late period of the session. He adjustment of private interests and the mainte- command the confidence both of the House and thought, therefore, that his return showed that nance of an equal balance of justice between all the country generally. (Hear, hear.) They ought the information obtained by his noble and parties concerned. All these difficulties and in- to be made by persons who would afford all parties learned friend must have been erroneous.- conveniences were occasionally much aggravated concerned an opportunity of being heard, either Lord Westbury asked his noble and learned by the fluctuating nature of our parliamentary by themselves or counsel, and make them feel friend on the woolsack whether he was correctly tribunals. The members of our private com assured that their case had been thoroughly sifted reported this morning as having said last night | mittees, though generally men of great industry, and adjudged by the one common tribunal. (Hear, that on Thursday next he would make a state- sometimes of much ability, and always of high hear.) Now he did not think that the common ment on the subject of the Bill for the establish: honour, receive but scant credit or thanks from law judges would be willing to undertake the ment of a new Court of Appellate Jurisdiction.” the public for the labour they devote to the public duties of such a tribunal. And even if they were, Had not his noble friend stated that he would bring service. (Hear, hear.) Notwithstanding such it appeared to him that there could not be found in the Bill on Thursday evening ? The Lord CHAN, high qualifications, they were not exactly the amongst thom the elements best constituted for CELLOR would have been glad if his noble and men most competent to discharge the impor- such a tribunal, inasmuch as the whole habit of learned friend (Lord Cairns) had given notice of tant duties entrusted to them, or to decide their mind was to adhere as strictly as possible that part of his question which related to arrears upon the nature of the evidence which they to mere precedent. He was of opinion that they of appeals in their lordships' House. Not having ought to receive. The result was that we had ought to have a tribunal composed of men, not only had such notice, he had not been in a position to generally a bench much weaker than the Bar before possessed of great legal ability and experience, but make the necessary inquiries; but he thought it. Again, it was necessary under our present of men who would be inclined to make ample allow. there must be some fallacy lurking in the figures. system to crowd into the space of a few week all ance for the variations of public feeling and of public Certainly there must be some difference in the way the inquiries connected with the private Bills of a opinion which from time to time took place. by which the return quoted by his noble and learned whole session. The few members who were known (Hear, hear.) If provisional orders relating to all friend had been arrived at and that by which the to be peculiarly qualified for the conduct of such matters great and small connected with private arrears to which he had referred on a former occa- inquiries were consequently eagerly sought after. Bills were to command general concurrence, they sion had been calculated. But, as there had been They were often wanted in half a dozen committee ought to be made by tribunals composed of men of no notice, he was not prepared on the moment rooms at the same time, and each of those tribu much greater weight and disposition to accommoto explain the discrepancy, and must reserve nals acted independently, of itself, without any date their minds to the altered circumstances of the his answer on this point. As to the other knowledge of the proceedings that were going on time or case than the judges of the land. Where part of his noble friend's question, he had to before any of the other tribunals. The results did they look for their judges ? They looked to reply that on the first occasion of his reference to

were often the most conflicting proceedings. the eminent leaders of the bar. And to them his Bill and to the Judicature Commission, he Another inconvenience arising out of our present would he also look for the men who he believed did not say that the Judicature Commission had system was the necessary limited period of those would be fully qualified to act upon the tribunals been engaged in preparing Bills which he intended inquiries every day. The committees could only to which he referred. If we selected men of great to introduce. On that occasion he said nothing sit for a few hours in the day, the attendance of legal experience and ability to form the tribunal of the kind. What he did say was, that during the members being usually required at four o'clock for the special business which they would have to the ricas a number of gentlemen, members of when the House met for the general business of inquire into, he did not think there would be any the commission, had voluntarily formed them- legislation. Thus there were short sittings, long danger of that tribunal making itself obnoxious selves into a committee, and had most kindly detention of witnesses and legal practitioners, and to the public by its fallir.g into the habit of followgone through the Bill to which he was referring. | a great augmentation of expense to all parties im- ing precedent, and thus making itself in one sense These gentlemen were Lord Justice James, mediately concerned; followed by results costly, an obstruction to the progress of the Bills reBaron Bramwell, Mr. Justice Quain, and Mr. uncertain, and mostly unsatisfactory. (Hear, mitted to their consideration. This tribunal might Hallams. They were members of the commis. hear.) But matters did not end there. Many he appointed to sit in Edinburgh, London, and sion, and though they were a self-appointed persons, after passing through this ordeal once, Dublin. Indeed, he submitted whether it might committee for the purpose of going through were often compelled to go through another not be so constituted as to enable it to go circuit, the Bill, he did not think he had fallen into any ordeal of a somewhat similar character in the other to visit such large and important cities as great errors in his statement. (Hear, hear.). In House of Parliament, the committee of each House Glasgow and Liverpool, and to conduct the par reply to his noble and learned friend (Lord West. being possessed of co-ordinate jurisdiction. The ticular inquiries committed to its care in any bury) as to the words attributed to him in the proceedings might be likened to an appeal | locality which might be deemed most convenient, report published that morning, he had to say that from a jury of the House of Commons to economical, and generally satisfactory to all the the report was perfectly correct. The report a jury of the House of Lords, or vice versa. parties immediately concerned. (Hear, bear.) most correctly made him say that he would make The question then suggests itself, Why should we There were some exceptional cases of private Bills a statement on Thursday, and not that he would not have the two juries sitting together in the involving new principles-such as patents-in rebring in the Bill on that day. He could not have same room to determine the merits of the same spect to which neither the public nor the parties made the latter promise last night, because he had bill? (Hear, hear.) That was an arrangement concerned would probably feel satisfied with the discovered that previously to bringing in the Bill recommended by a joint committee of Lords and decision of the one or two judges constituting the he must move a resolution, and this he intended to Commons who sat in 1869 on the grounds of sim- tribunal that was deputed to try the matters indo immediately after the recess. On a former occa- plicity, speed, uniformity, and economy. The volved. In such extraordinary cases there might sicn he stated that he would bring in a Bill, and he members of that committee belonging to the House be a power given of carrying the inquiry before had hoped and believed that he would be able to of Commons were-Sir G. Grey, Mr. Bruce, Mr. another tribunal better qualified for the consider bring it in before Easter. But ona full consideration Walpole, Colonel Wilson-Patten, and the then ation of all such questions. The tribunal might be of the matter he found that a previous resolution chairman of Ways and Means. Of the Lords' constituted of one, two, or three members, accord. would be necessary. He hoped their lordships House the members were Lords Eversley, Heytes- ing to the character and importance of the Bills to would not be of opinion that any apparent delay bury, Salisbury, Halifax, the late Lord Derby, and be submitted to its jurisdiction. (Hear, hear.) He arose from negligence on his part in the perform another peer. Their report, to which he referred, suggested that all provisional orders of that ance of his promises. Both his noble and learned was unanimously concurred in by all the members kind, whether granted or refused by the tribunal, friends were aware, from experience of the amount of the committee, with the exception of one noble shouid be laid on the table of the House, in order of business which the Lord Chancellor had to get lord. Let the House now consider whether they that it should not be possible for it, either by fall. through, in addition to the duties which he had to could not carry the change even further than that ing into error or bias on the part of the inembers

, perform in that House. (Hear, hear.)--Lord suggested by the report of the committee of 1869. to have it in its power to suppress some new in. Cairns observed that his noble and learned friend The recent alteration in the law, remitting to the vention or prevent schemes of a novel character, was quite entitled to ask any of the members of common law judges the jurisdiction of trying all embodying new ideas, being submitted to the the commission to give him such assistance as that matters connected with disputed election returns in Legislature. The tribunal would have to decide which had been rendered by the learned gentle. the localities the most convenient for such inquiries, on all questions now dealt with by the referees as man he had referred to ; but the misunderstanding was universally admitted to be one of the most to the locus standi of the parties. According to had been that the Bill had been submitted to the beneficial and economical character. Was it not the best calcalations he had been able to make on commission, which had referred it to a committee. worthy of their consideration whether some such the classification he had suggested, it appeared to

arrangement might not be made in common with him that three judges or commissioners, sitting HOUSE OF COMMONS.

our private Bill legislation, which frequently in- for nine months in the year, would amply sufice

volved matters demanding the attention of much to discharge all the work now performed by the Friday, March 15.

more experienced men than those who ordinarily committees of the two Houses, the referees, and

composed our private Bill committees ? The examiners of private Bills. The commission would Mr. Dodson rose to move the following resolu. duty of the committee, after they had heard form one tribunal, and their jurisdiction would tions :-" (1.) That, in the opinion of this House, and closed the inquiry, was very often not extend over the whole of the United Kingdom, and the system of private legislation calls for the to ascertain or declare the law, but to decide they would have to visit every part as they were attention of her Majesty's Government, and re. as arbitrators in the case. There were, no doubt, required. After analysing the private Bills prequires reform. (2.) That it is expedient to sub. questions of a most grave and serious nature sented to Parliament he found there was not stitute, as far as possible, an extended and sometimes involved in the consideration of private sufficient business from Ireland and Scotland to improved system of provisional orders for local Bills. Now in any new arrangements which might justify a separate commission or tribunal, and, and personal Bills. (3.) That provisional orders be agreed upon, he hoped that Parliament would therefore, there would be more harmony in the


MARCH 23, 1872.7



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decisions and in the proceedings of one tribunal sary, could be appealed against to a joint select would render statutory declarations less liable to than there would be in three. The men who com. committee of both Houses of Parliament. He abuse. The hon. gentleman also added that he posed the tribunal should not be one whit inferior hoped that under such a change the country had received an intimation from the Lord Mayor in calibre to the judges of the land, and, therefore, would be more cheaply and satisfactorily served to the effect that some alteration was to be provision must be made for their salaries on a pro- than at present; and Parliament would gain two made on the subject. --The ATTORNEY-GENERAL portionate scale. The promoters of private Bills advantages. It would relieve itself from an im- thought it would suit the convenience of the paid in fees from £50,000 to £130,000 or £140,000 mense amount of work which, with all due re. House if he answered at the same time the per year, of which the Chancellor of the Ex. spect to hon. members, they were not the best question of the hon, member for York (Mr. Lee. chequer had the benefit. There was, therefore, a qualified to perform (hear, 'hear), and it would man), who asked whether, in the opinion of the fund amply sufficient to provide for the expenses also give more time for the transaction of public law officers of the Crown, any magistrate had of an efficient tribunal, and he thought that those business, which was yearly increasing. He had statutablo authority to receive and attest a volunwho were called on to pay such heavy fees were not attempted to anticipate objections which tary, declaration like that permitted to be made entitled to claim of the Chancellor of the Exchequer might be urged to the scheme, and he submitted by Alexander Chaffers before Mr. Vaughan, at and the Government that they should in return to the House that the point for their consideration Bow-street, on the 4th April 1871, and if so, be provided with the cheapest and most efficient was not whether there were objections to it that ther it was not advisable to terminate or limit tribunal. (Hear, hear). The nearer home the inquiry could or could not be answered, but whether such authority. His attention had, like that of took place the cheaper it must be, but there would there were not greater objections to the every one in the country, been directed to the be, of course, exceptional cases, where eminent present state of things. He laid no claim to subject of statutory declarations by a late procounsel would have to be brought down, and any merit of originality, except in one instance, ceeding which had caused great pain especially to scientific witnesses would have to be summoned, because similar schemes had been suggested those immediately connected with it. It had been in which the expenses would be greater in the pro- by Lord Grey, Lord Salisbury, the present Chan. asked by a noble viscount whether he proposed vinces than if it were held in the metropolis, but cellor of the Exchequer, Sir Erskine May, and by any alteration of the law which would render stathey were not to legislate for exceptional, but for Mr. Rickards, the Speaker's counsel. Select com tutory declarations less liable to be abused. The general cases. It would be at the option of the mittees had sat and reported until the shelves of law of statutory declarations depended on the parties to have their cases tried in the provinces the library groaned under their reports on the 5 & 6 Will. 4,.c. 62, which generally substituted or in London. There would be an appeal from subject of private legislation, but very little alter- such declarations for atfidavits.. By the 18th the tribunal to a joint committee of the two ation had been the result. If another select com.

section, under which the declaration in question Houses, whereby there would be secured a better mittee were appointed they could take no fresh

was made, it was provided that it should tribunal than at present, and, in the next place. evidence, and therefore the only new suggestion and might be lawful for any justice of the the parties would be saved the risk and trouble of he would make was that if the matter was to be peace, public notary, or other officer legally carrying their Bills through both Houses of Parlia- dealt with, it should be dealt with by several com entitled to administer oaths to take and receive ment. The number of private Bills annually con: petent minds, and therefore he suggested the a declaration in a form specified in a schedule tested in both Houses was from forty to sixty, and appointment, not of an ordinary committee to take from any person who voluntarily came before supposing that to be the annual number of appeal evidence, but a committee who, if they had the them, and if any part of any statement so male cases they would furnish work for eight or ten will, had the power of effecting a reform, namely, should be untrue or false in any material particujoint committees, and the whole of the privato a Government committee. (Henr, henr.)--Mr. lar, the person making such declaration should be legislation of the House would be discharged by Gregory was favourable to the resolutions of guilty of a misdemeanour. As far as he knew, and some twenty or twenty-five members of each the hon. gentleman as a whole. He thought, he believed there could be no doubt on the subject, House, instead of as now by from 180 to 250. The however, that it would be to the public interest if the words - it should and might be lawful for a House very seldom questioned the decisions of its the presentarrangement of donblecommittees were justice of the peace” imposed a duty on the own committees on private Bills, and he appre continned, so far as the consideration of questions justice, and he had no discretion on the subject. hended they should treat the decision of the new of railway amalgamations was concerned. — Mr. He thereforo was of opinion that Mr. Vaughan, in tribunals with as much respect as they now dia Bouverte said the scheme of his hon.

friend the case which had attracted so much attention, the select committees. He would make the appeals was so important and elaborate that the Horse

was bound to have received the statutory declaraa matter of right, leaving it to the risk of incurring would scarcely be prepared to come to any decision tion which he had received in this particular case. unnecessary costs, so as to prevent them being until they had taken time to consider the details A moment's consideration would show that such unduly made, but at the same time knowing there of it. (Hear, hear.) For his own part he was

was the case, because these declarations were was a strong feeling against leaving appeals to unwilling to commit himself absolutely either in made daily by the score, and it was impossible the discretion of the parties concerned, the favour or against the scheme, though at present that the magistrate, even if he had the proper appeals should be subject to one condition, that of he was certainly disposed give it his approval. materials for forming a judgment, which he had having a short summary appended of the reasons without entering into the various arguments of not, could have time to exercise a discretion in on which the decision of the external tribunal was his learned friend, or the objections that might be regard to them. A judge or magistrate wonld based. That would go before the standing orders suggested in opposition to part of the scheme, he naturally give a professional person a reasonable committee, or some corresponding committee, who might remark that one strong objection generally amount of credit for bringing before him what he would report if a primâ facie case had been made put forward on this question was that a per: believed to be a proper document, and it would be out, and just as the House now almost invariably manent tribunal, like the one now proposed, a very great evil if the transaction of business by atfirmed, the reports of the standing orders com- necessarily wanted the flexibility offered by

an honest and upright attorney should be intermittee on special subjects, so the House would the House of Commons, since it would be fered with and impeded because once since the acquiesced in the reports that in the committee's guided and bonnd almost exclusively by precedent. passing of the 5 & 6 Will. 4 a person who he opinion a prima facie case had or had not been (Hear, hear.) He should regret to see any tribunai hoped the house would forgive him for calling disclosed for an appeal. The present fashior, of established which shonld be of so inelastic and in a scoundrel (loud cheers) had been found to have passing provisional orders was a very cumbrous flexible a nature that it wonld not, review its own

abused a legal process which in hundreds and and inconvenient one, and instead of their being decisions. (Hear, hear.) If the House would now thousands of other cases had worked well and made by the departments or by the now tribunal, agree the adjournment of the debate, which he satisfactorily. His noble friend had asked him should be laid on the table of Parliament, and moved, his hon. friend might have the onportunity whether he was going to propose an alteration of if not petitioned against, or an adverse motion of embodving his proposals in a Bill. (Hear, the law. The only alteration that he could promade, they should be held to have received the hear. )-Colonel W. PATTEN thanked the learned pose was to make the penalty more severe in the assent of the House. He thought it would be gentleman for the pains he had evidently taken in case of wilfully false statements, but at present expedient to leave to the Government and the de- the preparation of these proposals, and for the the penalty for statutory perjury was three years' partments for the present the powers they possess admirable wav in which he had submitted them to imprisonment with hard labour (hear, hear), which, of making provisional orders. It was a singular the House. The time had certainly arrived when having regard to the nature of our prison discicircumstance that although the procedure by some change onght to be made. During the last pline, he thought would be considered sufficiently application to the departments was a shorter and few sessions the difficulty which hon. members

He would not say it was sufficient for the cheaper one, there was an inconceivable

preference experienced in attending committees upstairs had moral crime—the moral turpitude and iniquityto apply to this House by Bill. (Hear, hear.) He been greatly increased by the length of the debates of which this man had been guilty ; but it was did not propose to interfere with the jurisdiction in the House, which occupied so much of the enough to deter persons in general from attemptof the Inclosure Commissioners. With regard to attention of members during the night that they ing to follow his example. Ireland, the Lord Lieutenant in council, or the found themselves greatly indisposed to attend any Chief Secretary, was the department for granting committee in the morning. He concurred in the

Sir M. Lopes rose to call attention to the system provisional orders for Irish tramways or for local motion of the right hon. gentleman opposite, as

of late years adopted by the Treasury with respect government towns in Ireland, and he thought it the House required time to consider the proposals. to disallowances for criminal prosecutions in would be advisable and convenient that the pro- (Hear, hear.)- -Mr. SCLATER-Booth also wished counties, cities, and boroughs, and to move “ That visional orders for Irish railways, gas, and water to thank his hon. friend for the boldness with it is desirable that the Home Ofice should draw up works should be transferred from the Board of which he had brought forward his scheme; and such an uniform scale of fees and allowances for Trade to the Lord Lieutenant and the Chief Secre- although he was not prepared to criticise it at general use as shall ensure the efficient administary for Ireland. He could not make a similar sug- present, he should we willing to support at least tration of justice, and that all such expenses gestion for the benefit of Scotland, because there two or three out of the four resolutions. In some

hereafter incurred shall be wholly defrayeel by was no corresponding authority in Scotland to respects he thought his hon. friend went too far, funds, appropriated for this purpose by Parliawhom the duty of granting provisional orders could and in others that he did not go far enough. In

ment.” He said the recent decision of the highest be transferred. For the present, therefore, Scotland reference to railway legislation, he agreed with his authorities of the realm had not tended to allay must rest satisfied with applying to the external hon. friend behind him (Mr. Gregory) and hoped the discontent which had prevailed in this matter; tribunal when holding its sittings in Scotland that the matter would be considered by the and his justification for bringing the subject up There remained another class of bills in contra- | Government. (Hcar, hear.)---Mr. FORTESCUE

was that the Court of Queen's Bench, though fully distinction to local and personal bills, such as was not surprised at the general testimony to the admitting the illegality of the practice of which ho estate bills, divorce bills, and naturalisation bills. admirable ability with which the chairman of the complained, decided that they were incompetent They rarely exceeded ten or twenty in a session. committee of ways and means had elaborated to remedy it and

recommended an appeal to ParliaThey were seldom opposed and did not take up these proposals, or at the desire which was

ment. The question concerned both counties and much time, and with them he did not propose to expressed by every hon. member who had spoken boroughs, and it was neither of a party or poli: interfere. They would have to be dealt with by that the question should again come before them tical character, for Governments on both sides of extending the powers of the Settled Estates for consideration, and he therefore hoped his hon. the House were implicated in it. In 1826, by Court, the Divorce Court, and the powers of the friend would not object to the motion. (Hear.) 7 Geo. 4, it was made incumbent on quarter Home Office. And if the scheme he suggested - Mr. Dodson assented to the adjournment of / sessions to pay all costs of criminal prosecutions, were adopted no such thing would remain as a the debate until that day week. The motion was

and when taxed by the officers of the court the local and personal act. Everything would pro. then agreed to.

treasurer of the county had no option but to pay ceed by provisional orders, obtained on applica

them without remedy or redress. The law retion in many cases to th Government depart- Lord Bury asked the Attorney-General whether mained much the same now as to payment, but ment as now, and in others by application to the his attention had been directed to the subject of the source from which it was contributed was external tribunal, who would hear counsel and statutory declarations, and whether he was wil. altered. By an Act of 1835, Mr. Spring Rice, on witnesses in open court, and afterwards, if neces. 'ling to introduce such amendment of the law as

the recommendation of a select committee, pro.




posed that one-half of the costs should be paid by of the Ilouse; but he confessed that when he heard | by an hon. friend sitting on the Treasury bench the Consolidated Fund, and a vote was taken of the words "prerogative" and "privilege” they that the travelling expenses of a railway porter £110,000 for that object. In 1846 Sir R. Peel pro- grated on his ear, and any one who used the words had been disallowed because the gentlemen in posed, as a slight boon to the agricultural body, to shelter and shield himself from the consequences New-street were of opinion that he ought to hate that the other half should be transferred to the of neglecting some duty which ought to fall upon had a free pass (laughter); but they did Government. That was an honest and an honour- him, was not doing his best to uphold the most not take the trouble to inquire whether he was able compact, which had been infringed and in excellent monarchial institutions which we at travelling on a railway with which he was cona great degree repudiated. (Hear, hear.) In present enjoyed. (Hear, hear). The question was nected, or whether, not being travelling on the 1851, by the 14 & 15 Vict., the Secretary of treated by the judges as one of privilege. The business of the railway, they would give him a State took powers to make such regulations with Lord Chief Justice said, “ It seems a most anoma- free pass. There was another point to which the reference to the fees, and in 1858 these regulations lous and monstrous thing that when a court before hon. member for Devonshire had not referred, and were made. In 1857 the Treasury appointed the which a criminal prosecution is tried thinks that was the extreme injustice to the ratepayers criminal examiners. The gentlemen sitting in it necessary in the due administration of justice to caused by the delay in settling these accounts, Spring-gardens took it upon themselves to review order certain expenses to be incurred, to have two for frequently they were not settled for months. the auditors of the courts though they knew gentlemen sitting somewhere in Spring-gardens to That was a state of things which ought to be remenothing whatever of the circumstances. (Hear, override the authority of the court itself and dis- died at once. This was by no means a party cry, hear). After these regulations came into force allow expenses which have been directed to be for there were members of quarter sessions on the costs were reduced. The expenses when paid incurred." Mr. Justice Blackburn said that the both sides of the House. As magistrates in their wholly by the counties were £250,000 annually, Treasury were bound to pay the warrants taxed own counties they ought to be the defenders of but subsequently they had been cut down to by the officers in the various counties, and that the rights of the ratepayers. He recommended £150,000. No doubt the examiners had corrected they were, in fact, to indemnify the counties and the consideration of this matter to the serious many abuses, but they had exercised their powers reimburse to them all the sums they paid. Mr. attention of the Government. If it were handed in an arbitrary and capricious manner. Among Justice Mellor thought the Treasury had no right over to the Home Office he should feel more at other things, they were constantly making fresh to review the taxation when made by the proper ease, because there were principles in operation at regulations, without giving the counties any pre- officer. Mr. Justice Lush was of opinion that the the Treasury which were not conducive - he vious intimation, and on the most frivolous pre- Appropriation Act required them to pay all the would not say to justice-but he would say not in texts they made these disallowances. Not the costs taxed and allowed by the proper officer. accordance with the general feeling of the country, least part of the hardship was that, whereas the Now, he thought thera would be no difficulty in (Hear, hear.) He thought the Home Office would counties and boroughs were obliged to pay on the having a uniform scale of fees for general observ- look at the matter in a different light, and would nail, the Treasury allowed a period of between ance, and that they ought not to be cut too fine if say that the first thing was to see that justice was two and three years to elapse before reimbursing. they wanted not to impede the course of justice. properly administered. (Hear.) He hoped and (Hear hear). By returns which he had moved for There was one thing that ought to be done im expected that the right hon. gentleman would give last session, he found that these disallowances for mediately, and that was to do away with the Act such an answer that at Easter hon. members the last six years averaged 6 per cent. in the of 7 Geo. 4, which made it incumbent on the would be able to inform their constituents that English counties, and 11 per cent in the Welsh treasurer of the magistrates to pay these fees those anomalies which were causing a vast amount counties, while in the English boroughs they were first. He thought there should be no intervention of irritation would speedily be put an end to. upwards of 11 per cent. The total expenses came -that the Treasury should send down their (Hear.) He advocated most strongly one uniform

£110,000, from which the disallowances were officers, who would be at liberty to apply to the table of fees as a means to stop further dissatii: £78,000, or an average of £13,000 a year. Now, judge on the spot. He was as great an advocate faction, and he trusted that the Government was it worth while on the part of the Government of genuine economy as anyone, but he was op would support his Bill. He appealed with con, to create such wide dissatisfaction for such a sum ? posed to pettifogging and pernicious parsimony. fidence to the Government to put an end He had no hesitation in saying that it was an act (Cheers.) The one was salutary, but the other to the arbitrary reign of the gentlemen in of petty larceny (cheers and laughter), and the defeated its own object. He now submitted his New-street. (Hear, hear.) - Mr. BRUCE said amount saved scarcely paid the expenses of the motion to the House, confident that although the this was a very old grievance. (Hear, hear.) examiners for their staff and offices. They were Court of Queen's Bench felt incompetent to deal | It was not chargeable to the present or to any obliged to make themselves vexatious, active, and with the matter, and had therefore recommended other administration in particular, for he could fussy, to show that they had something to do, and that it should be brought before a higher tribunal, remember that twenty years ago, when he took an they were paid for being disagreeable (laughter). the House of Commons would tell the Govern- active part in public business in his own connty, But a more serious matter was that these burdens ment that they ought to discontinue a practice he had to represent their grievances to the Home impeded the true administration of justice. There which was unsound, impolitie,and unjust. (Cheers.) Office. He sympathised with much that had been was often great difficulty experienced in inducing -Mr. MAGNIAC, in seconding the motion, said said on the subject, and having looked into the parties to prosecute, many being anxions to escape he considered it the duty of the Government to matter with the desire of finding a satisfactory the expense.

It was rather a significant fact that provide suflicient means for the due administration solution of the difficulty, he was bound to say the out of between 50,000 and 60.000 commitals there of justice. If ever there was a case in which the inquiry had revealed a great deal that was yn. had only been between 13,000 and 14,000 convic country ought to provide such means, it was in satisfactory. (Hear, hear.) A satisfactory solutions. The examiners had endeavoured to cut down the case of the unpaid magistrates—a body of tion must be found, but he was bound to say that and reduco the expenditure simply to the cost of the men who performed their duties without fear or he was not fully prepared to indicate what the prosecutors, whereas they were intended to com- favour, although in many instances without ap- ultimate solution would be. (Hear, hear.) These prise the whole cost of the prosecutions. He preciation. He wished to clear the ground of a payments were, as every one knew, formerly had presented a petition from his own county and misapprehension which existed, by saying at once charged on the rates, but in 1836 the Treasury would mention, out of the many hardships the that he did not question the right of the country undertook to pay one-half, and in 1846 Sir R. Peel petitioners detailed, this one. Some years ago an to tax the costs in question, but he contended relieved the local rates of the whole cost, and the arrangement was made with the clerk of the peace that they ought to be supervised by proper immediate result was a very rapid increase in the to pay him a salary instead of the fees attached authorities. When he put a question the other costs of prosecutions, and in consequence examito his office. That salary was, of course, calcu- night to the Secretary of the Treasury on this were appointed to revise the payments. lated on the fees which he had been in the habit subject, the reply of the hon. gentleman seemed Much had been said, though in a contemptuous If receiving. He had received a fee of 16s. for the to amount to an ad captandum appeal to the tone, of economy, which was not justified in refercost of prosecutions, witnesses, and recognisances. economic principles of hon. gentlemen below the ence to the results. It might be that now, when on 1859 the clerk of the peace went to the exami. gangway (hear, hear, and laughter), and stated the changes were better understood between the ners and they confirmed that fee. On being ap. that he would attend to the matter with a due country and the Treasury, the reductions were not pealed to, one of the examiners said he could not regard to the interests of the ratepayers. That very considerable in amount. At first it was so, tell why they had repudiated that arrangement. answer was a proof that the hon. gentleman was and it was difficult to say what the result would The fee of 16s. had been cut down to 45., and the little acquainted with the subject—that he thought be if the superintendence of these gentlemen was ratepayers were obliged to pay the difference. it his duty to protect somebody, and therefore men- altogether withdrawn. The costs of prosecutions That was a great hardship, but it was not the only tioned the ratepayars. The answer was certainly in 1832 were £249,753, which by rigid examination

The ratepayers had to pay between £600,000 more sharp and argnmentative than the case re- were reduced in 1858 to £125,000, being a reducand £700,000 for the cost of the administration of quired. The case was simply this. It was the duty tion of £121,000, and from that time to this they justice. They were paying that as one class of of certain persons to prosecute. They were bound had been annually about £150,000. The reduction the community only, whilst the only boon that over to do so, and had no option in the matter. The had been made by the gentlemen in London, and had been given to the agricultural interest, to the expenses were supervised and taxed by an officer no doubt in many cases under circumstances of ratepayers, since 1847 was that given by Sir R. who was appointed under an Act of Parliament, hardship—(hear)—and all the more so that by no Peel amounting to £75,000, and he thought it very the words of the Act being the proper officer of possible care on their part could they have hard that the Government should attempt to the court.” The certificate of that officer was escaped the reductions that had created a sense of minimise that sum in the way they were now doing, final, and he was required by the Act to issue it. grievance throughout the country. There were (Hear, hear.). Last year the right hon. gentleman Upon that certificate the treasurer of the county inherent difliculties in the subject, and if the Home opposite had stated that he (Sir M. Lopes) had paid the amount, and the ratepayers had no con- Office were to settle a scale of fees and allowances not compared the very large concessions made by trol over the matter. That certificate was handed it would not settle the whole question, because Sir R. Peel with the small additional burdens to the treasurer of the county, who forwarded it the grievance was not whether the fees and allow. which had been placed on the rates. Now, in to the Treasury, and then occurred this extraor. ances were proper, but whether a witness ought 1847 the whole amount raised by local taxation dinary circumstance: Two gentlemen living in a to have been called on the preliminary examinawas £7,000,000, whilst in 1870 it was £12,000,000. pleasant residence in New-street, Spring-gardens, tion and bound over to give evidence, to which no In 1817 the whole amount of the county rates ivhose establishment cost £1000 a year, exclusive uniform scale could apply. Then, again, was the raised by the poor iate assessment was £1,300,000, of some £200 for rent, occupied themselves inos- difficulty of framing a scale of allowances to be whilst in 1870 it was £2,600,000. (Hear, hear.) Theró tensibly supervising £148,000 a year, but he be paid to attorneys and counsel. It was, in fact, was scarcely a county or borough in which the lieved they were chiefly occupied in rectifying mis absolutely impossible for any department to magistratos at quarter sessions had not taken the takes of local officers on matters of fact of which frame a proper scale of allowances suitable to all matter into their serious consideration, and pre- they had no earthly knowledge whatever. (Hear, circumstances. (Hear, hear.) Sach, for instance, sented petitions on the subject. On a recent oc- hear). This was altogether an anomalous state of as the number of witnesses necessary to prove & casion à case came before the magistrates of things, and but that this was an eminently conser- case, and the time necessary for trying the case. Lancaster, who tried to obtain a mandamus in the vative country, the abuse would long since have (Hear, hear. He had been in communication Coutif Que n’s Bench to enforce the pıyment of been swept away. (Cheers). Proper officers ap. with the Treasury on the subject, and he could these disallowances by the Treasury, The Court pointed by Parliament taxed the costs, and then assure the House that the Government were of Queen's Bench was unanimous in declaring that they were handed over to improper officers to re- anxious to arrive at a solution of the difficulty by the conduct of the Treasury was unjust and inde vise. (Hear, hear, and laughter). The amounts such a scale, but it appeared to him it would not fensible ; that it was at variance with the words which they deducted might be bought too dearly. answer the purpose, and that it must be looked and terms of the Appropriation Act; that they did There was an unwillingness on the part of many for elsewhere.Another difficulty was that the not give their decision on the merits, but must persons to prosecute, they being put to expense, taxing officers of the court were not officers of the treat the matter as one of privilege. (Hear, hear.) | and the administration of justice had by this Treasury, but officers appointed by the judges and Now, he was as loyal a man as any hon. member means been greatly crippled. He had been told by the justices-(hear, hear)-'who performed



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