"In this relation the Count St. Aulaire

on him at that time, for his own honour | countries that France was so represented and veracity, to require the production of in this country. But when he (the Earl that correspondence, but, from that time of Aberdeen) saw the report of this conto the present, he had left the matter en-versation, as given in the French Chamber tirely in the hands of the late Govern- of Deputies, it certainly did occur to him ment. He had felt that any interference that it was liable to erroneous inferences, would only embarrass them, and do no and, in point of fact, he perceived that good to the public service, and he had erroneous inferences had been drawn from therefore abstained from saying a word on it; and he therefore thought it incumbent the subject. When her Majesty, some on him, without delay, to rectify the error months ago, was pleased to call him to into which the French ambassador had the office which he now held, he naturally inadvertently fallen. He therefore at once felt that among the various subjects which wrote to our ambassador at Paris, and he must engage his attention, and form the would read to their Lordships the consubject of discussion, the occupation of tents of the despatch, and afterwards lay it Algiers would be very likely to do so; on the Table. The despatch was dated and considering the part he had taken, January 28, and ran thus:and the office he had filled, and again occupied, he felt that the language he might "Foreign Office, Jan. 28, 1842. hold on the subject might be a matter of "MY LORD-My attention has been directed some importance to the French govern-livered in the Chamber of Deputies, by M. to a report in the Moniteur, of a speech dement and to this country, and he felt that Guizot, on the 20th inst. On that occasion he had but one course to pursue; he felt his Excellency read in the tribune an account that whatever he might have conceived of a conversation between the Count St. Auhimself called upon to do, had he been laire and myself, which had reference to the appointed to office in 1831, that coming French possession in Africa, and which had into office in the year 1841, after ten years been transmitted by the ambassador to the French minister. of silence, it was was not his business to take any new course, other than that which had been followed by those who preceded him. He had, therefore, had no hesitation in making up his mind what course to pursue; and this was, retaining all the opinions he had before held and expressed on the subject of Algiers, to give no opinion on the subject unless called upon to do so. The conversation to which the noble Marquess referred was altogether an incidental one, not arising out of any proposition made to him (the Earl of Aberdeen) by the French ambassador-a conversation, in short, of quite a confidential and familiar nature, though very properly reported, no doubt, by the French ambassador to his government. There was no communication of any official correspondence or instructions, but there was, no doubt, matter which the Count St, Aulaire thought of some interest to his government. He had not the slightest doubt that M. de St. Aulaire was convinced that he had made a perfectly correct report of the conversation; for he might take this opportunity of declaring, and most explicitly, that it had never happened to him to have to deal with a more honourable and high-minded man than the present French ambassador, and it was a most fortunate thing for both

observes, I began by asserting that the security of our African possessions was for us an interest of the highest importance, which we could not allow to give way before any consideration; and Lord Aberdeen, after have ing listened to me attentively, said, I am very glad to be able to explain myself distinctly to you upon this point. I was minister in 1830. If I were to go back to that time, I should have much to say; but I take affairs as they were in 1841, and in the state in which they have been left by preceding Cabinets. I, therefore, look upon your position in Africa as a fait accompli, against which I have no further objection to make.'

of this statement, with the exception of the Now, I readily subscribe to the accuracy last sentence. I never said that I had now no objection to make to the establishment of the French in Algiers, but that I had now no observation to make on the subject, and that it was my intention to be silent. The context shows that such was my meaning, and, in fact, this decision was the result of mature reflection. I felt that after ten years of acquiescence any objections at the present moment would have been misplaced, and that the course which it would have been impossible for me formerly to have adopted had now become entirely consistent with propriety and duty. It does not follow, however, that objections, although not expressed, may not be entertained.

"I have explained to the French ambassador the misapprehension into which he had fallen, and the erroneous statement which, in

{MARCH 7} consequence, he had made to his govern

ment.

"With the same object in view, your Excellency will have the goodness to read this despatch to Monsieur Guizot. I am, &c.

(Signed)

"ABERDEEN."

This was the despatch which he had sent to Lord Cowley. Lord Cowley obeyed his instructions, and there the matter ended. He had only now, by command of her Majesty, to lay the copy of the despatch on their Lordships' Table.

Despatch laid on the Table.

deal of trouble, agreed to, which met the views of every naval member of the board. Among other things it was agreed, after long consideration and much discussion to reduce the complement of men by one-eighth. One or two lords were opposed to this reduction, but they yielded their views in order to secure unanimity, and at last the scheme was assented to by every naval lord, and received, in addition, the concurrence of Lord Dalmeny. The result was communicated to Lord Minto, who put the document in his pocket, and nothing more was for some time heard of it. At length it was returned to the board, and it was then discovered that Lord Minto had assumed the power of reducing the complement of men not by one-eighth but by one-fifth. Now, he asked, was that a proper state of things to continue? Was it right that a man who knew little or nothing of the navy should assume such a power as this, contrary to the opinion of the naval lords of the board? Similar instances were on record."

THE LATE ADMIRALTY.] The Earl of Minto wished to call the attention of their Lordships to a matter personal to himself. He was sensible of the great inconvenience of referring in that House to matters which had passed in the other House of Parliament, but there were occasions on which it was improper to allow extremely false impressions to go forth without explanation, and when he had read the passage from the newspapers which induced him to address the House, he thought their Lordships would agree with him, that the present was such an occasion. The passage to which he referred occurred in what pur-plements of our ships of war. ported to be the report of the speech of a gallant Member of the other House on Friday night, the object of that gallant Officer being to recommend to the notice of the House of Commons what he (Lord Minto) could not but consider a somewhat fanciful scheme of naval administration-a scheme which had been repeatedly suggested by him to the Admiralty, and was as often rejected. In pointing out the incompetence of civilians to fill the office of first Lord of the Admiralty, the gallant Member made the following observations :

Now, before he (Earl Minto) went further, he would endeavour, in a few words confining himself to the charge-to make their Lordships, if possible, understand what actually did take place on the occasion alluded to. He would not enter into the controversy as to the peace and war comHe believed

"When a first Lord came into power he was generally extremely ignorant, but after he had been there a little time he began to fancy that he knew a great deal, and had become a thorough sailor. This was very much the case with the late first Lord (the Earl of Minto),

who, after he had been at the Admiralty some time, assumed a great deal more power than he ever ought to have assumed. He (Sir C. Napier) had always understood that where there was a board the responsibility was divided between the members of that board. Now, the late first Lord had, in one instance at least, assumed the power of acting in opposition to the express desire of every other member of the board. An hon. Friend of his had informed him, that when the subject of manning the navy was under the consideration of the naval lords, a scheme was, after a great

it to be a question of circumstances. In a
time of profound peace he thought that it
might be wise to have a large number of
ships afloat with a smaller complement of
men than would be required in time of
war.
But when the state of our foreign
relations was at all menacing, it was neces-
sary to increase the complement; and he
thought that the present First Lord of the
Admiralty was perfectly right in putting
the full complement of men to all ships on
foreign stations. He had said that he begged
leave to call their Lordships' attention to
the charge against himself personally, which
was, that certain complements were re-
commended to him by the naval Lords of
the Admiralty, which he took upon him-
self to reject, substituting a scale of com-
plements of his own. In order to make him-
self intelligible, it may be proper that he
should first explain in what manner the
complements had been determined which
he found established in the navy. Under
the presidency of the late King as Lord
High Admiral, a commission had been
appointed composed of able and scientific
officers, in which Sir Thomas Hardy pre-
sided, to consider and report upon this sub-
ject. After much careful inquiry and con-
sideration, a report was made recommending
a certain scale of complements for such

"This is a great and serious question, involving a very large addition of expense, and requiring very careful consideration and inquiry, and one which cannot be disposed of off hand; I am bound, sitting here, to look after the public interests; I am bound to see that there is good reason for what is proposed, and that professional zeal or bias does not involve the country in more expense than is necessary; and I am bound to see that the former scale determined upon, after mature deliberation, by some of the ablest men in the service, is not lightly overturned; and I must therefore take time fully to consider this matter."

class of ships-and this when he came to | before the board, which, after some discusthe Admiralty was understood to form the sion, was approved of by all the members recognised scale of complements for warof the board. This scale it was, that he from which the peace complements had (Earl Minto) was charged with having put been derived by the deduction of he thought into his pocket, proposing another scale of one-eighth. Now this in certain classes of his own, in opposition to the opinions of all ships undoubtedly produced a low peace the naval members of the board. But that complement. And a commission subse- was not the case. When the scale was quently appointed by him in which Sir produced, he said, Pulteney Malcolm presided, recommended a partial small increase of complements. When he came into office he found much complaint of the want of sufficient complements in some classes of ships. Many new classes of ships have been introduced into the service since the former scale of complements was settled, and a new and more powerful armament had been recently established for the fleet. These circumstances seemed to require that the whole scale of complements should be revived, and in the autumn of 1838 the members of the Board of Admiralty occupied themselves with looking carefully into the subject, and many schemes were proposed; at length, when it was thought that sufficient progress had been made in the investigation to enable every one to form his judgment, a special meeting of the board was held, at which Sir William Symonds and Sir Thomas Hastings were present; the board had a long sitting, and took the case of one of each class of ships into consideration. At this sitting no doubt there were differences of opinion on details, but ultimately a scale of complements for war was agreed on unanimously, and he believed that Captain Berkely was present and took part in the proceedings. Some technical difficulties occurred to prevent the immediate promulgation of this scale of complements, but undoubtedly the scale was unanimously adopted by the whole board, and this was the scale which he (Earl Minto) had established in the navy for war complements. Then came the question of a peace complement under the previous system, the peace complement had been reduced from the war complement by a reduction of one-peace complements was devised, and the proeighth of the whole number of the crew. Instead of this, it was proposed to have a reduction of either a fifth or a sixth of the number of men appropriated to the guns-indeed both those propositions were made. Mr. Wood drew up one of his extremely clear and able minutes, which he laid before the board, in which he described the principle on which the board had proceeded as to the war complement, and a scale of peace complements was then brought

This was all that passed on the occasion, and the course which he thus took was so obvious and natural, that no one seemed to think it strange that he (Earl Minto) should adopt it. He had gone very minutely into the case, but he had all along stated to the board, that he thought the question one so purely professional, that he should feel bound to adopt what should turn out to be their real opinion, after a full and careful consideration. It very soon appeared that the principle on which they attempted to form complements for manning the ships was inapplicable to the case. establish any one proportion between the peace and war complement for all descriptions of ships was found to be impossible, for it would give too large an allowance for one class of ships, and too small for another, and the whole scheme turned out to be arrant nonsense although it appeared very well on paper. It was therefore determined to take each case separately; accordingly one ship of each class was selected, and the board carefully went into the whole matter. A scale of

portionate complement in each ship was made greater in most cases and smaller in others than was formerly the case. The proposed scale of manning was first agreed to by the four naval lords. He then took the papers into his consideration, and he consulted the best counsellors that he could refer to on the subject, as to the most advisable course to take, namely the two senior naval lords, in both of whom he placed the most implicit confidence. After some

suggestions had been made by Mr. Wood some
slight change was made in the plan, and a
new minute was drawn up and at last
agreed to by the board. He admitted that
Captain Berkeley was no party to this ar-
rangement, but this was no fault of his,
as that gallant Officer had left town; but
he should have been very glad to discuss
the matter with that Gentleman, who
had undoubtedly paid very great attention
to the subject. He trusted that he had said
enough to show that he did not reverse the
decision of the board at his own whim and
pleasure. He might, however, observe,
before he sat down, that he thought that
the scale went too far in some respects, and
as he at the time thought there was an
error in there being too great an ex-
cess in manning ships, he sent down a
minute desiring to know if the scheme of
complements in question was recommended
to him by the two senior naval Lords of the
Admiralty, namely, Sir C. Adam, and
Sir W. Parker. The messenger shortly
after returned with the paper, marked-
yes; signed "C. A.," "W. P." He
hoped that he had thus succeeded in ex-
onerating himself from the observations
which had been made upon him elsewhere.
He had no desire to bandy words between
the House of Lords and the House of
Commons as to the proper complements for
ships in the navy, and still less did he wish
to occupy the time of Parliament with
matters which might appear personal to
himself; he trusted, however, that the
House would feel that he was called upon
to make some explanation on the subject.
He would only detain the House with ad-
verting to one other point. Another charge
brought against him was, that he had been
guilty of an undue exercise of authority in
sending out orders to the Admiral inject, I never did proceed to Candia.
the Mediterranean without the know-
ledge of the board. Sir Charles Napier

tial communications to the naval commander
in chief of a fleet, and must sometimes even
direct his movements. Now, the Mem-
bers of the late Government, as well as
himself, reposed the most entire confidence
in Sir Robert Stopford, and he might be
permitted to add, that Sir Robert Stopford
had showed that he was most deserving of
it. This was not a singular instance of his
writing a letter to that gallant Admiral;
for he could refer to fifty instances in which
he sent letters to Sir Robert Stopford, to
explain to that gallant officer the views of
the Government. He did not give that
gallant officer orders, but as the organ of
the Government in this department he had
communicated the views of Government,
which could not be well discussed openly
at a board. He begged to call their Lord-
ship's attention to a letter which he had
that day received from Sir Robert Stopford.
It was in these terms :—

said

"He would mention another instance in which he thought Earl Minto had assumed a great deal. He had read in a letter the other day, that that noble Lord had addressed a letter to Sir Robert Stopford, desiring him to proceed to Candia, and there wait for further orders. Was it to be endured that such power should be assumed by the First Lord of the Admiralty."

It was well known to noble Lords opposite that a Cabinet Minister in the situation which he held must often make confidenVOL. LXI. Series}

66 Royal Hospital, Greenwich, 6th March, 1842.

My dear Lord,

With reference to Sir C. Napier's assertion in the House of Commons, that it was in consequence of a private letter from your Lordship, I proceeded off Candia to establish the authority of the Sultan in that island, I find upon reference to my papers, that an order to that effect proceeded from the Board of Admiralty, dated 22nd of Oct., 1840, transmitting instructions from Lord Palmerston, dated 19th October. But as I could not procure Turkish troops which I demanded to carry this order into execution, and considering the marines insufficient for that ob

"I am quite certain that I never received any private communication from your Lordship upon that subject.-Believe me, my dear Lord, very faithfully yours,

"ROBERT STOPFORD."

Thus, although these assumed orders had not been issued regarding Candia, he found on referring to the Levant papers, the following letter referring to a wish expressed by him for the assembly of the squadron at Cyprus.

"Princess Royal, off the South End of Cyprus, July 11, 1839. "I have the honour to inform your Excellency with my arrival here, with the squadron F

under my command, in pursuance of a private
intimation from Lord Minto, signifying his
wish for the squadron to assemble in this
neighbourhood, and to await further orders.
"As the accounts of the Sultan's death, and
the defeat of his army, which reached me this
morning from Candia, and have been con-
firmed by the Rhadamanthus from Alexandria,
may render it necessary for the squadron to
take up another position, I have to request
your Excellency will be pleased to favour me
with such information for my further guidance
as you may judge fit to give me under those
altered circumstances.-I have, &c.,

"ROBERT STOPFORD."

got

the two senior naval Lords with him

to by the Board of Admiralty. The noble Earl said that this minute, drawn up by Mr. Wood, embodied the opinions of the four naval Lords. But it appeared that the noble Earl, from his own statement, to discuss the subject, and, no doubt, by the influence of his authority induced them to alter their opinion. The noble Earl added that this might be a very proper regulation as to the manning of ships, but for other political objects, such as the expense, &c., it was inexpedient to adopt the proposition. He did not say the change was made at the dictation of the noble Lord, but he thought he should have given his reasons to the whole Board, instead of referring the matter to only two members This was the most complete answer to of it and himself. With regard to the the statement of which he complained, other charge-that of issuing a private sufficiently proving that Sir Robert Stop-order, he thought the letter of Sir Robert ford did not consider the communication Stopford which had been read to the made to him in the light of an order House by the noble Earl sufficient evidence. which he was bound to observe. He He understood from that letter that the had now, he thought, sufficiently replied to the charges made against him by the gallant officer went to Cyprus by order of the noble Earl, but that upon arriving gallant Officer. He was aware of the extreme inconvenience of debating in that there he found a new set of circumHouse matters which had been discussed stances, which rendered it necessary for in the other House of Parliament, and the him to refer to the ambassador for such propriety of avoiding anything which might commands as he might deem fit. Indeed tend to bandy controversy between them. it appeared to him (Lord Colchester) imHe had, therefore, carefully abstained from possible for any one to read that docuall discussion on the question as to what ment and not come to the conclusion that was or was not the proper peace comple- the noble Earl did send a private commument, and he hoped their Lordships would nication to Sir Robert Stopford to proceed feel that he was justified in calling their to Cyprus, and there await further orders. attention to the attack which had been He, therefore, did not think that the galpersonally made upon him, and that he had lant Officer who had alluded to the subject not exceeded the bounds which he had en- in the other House of Parliament could deavoured to lay down for himself in re- be fairly accused of having made an erplying to it. He felt that it was extremely roneous statement. That hon, and gallant inconvenient to make observations in one Officer had told him that he had read the House as to what passed in the other; but letter he had just quoted in a public paper. he hoped that he had abstained from all He did not wish to enter into any general observations that were at all calculated to discussion of the question, but he certainly give rise to further discussions of the thought that the hon, and gallant Officer same kind. who was supposed to have addressed the other House of Parliament, was in no degree open to the charge of having misstated facts. He must be permitted to add, that he thought her Majesty's present Government had acted with great prudence in increasing the former establishment, and he offered them his best thanks for having done so.

Lord Colchester believed that it was contrary to the orders of the House that such discussions should take place, and certainly they could be attended with no public advantage. As the matter had been broached, however, he felt called upon to make one or two remarks on some observations made by the noble Earl. The noble Earl had alluded to what had occurred after the minute respecting the complements that ships of war should have in times of peace, which had been agreed

The Duke of Richmond said, that nothing could be more inconvenient than that a noble Lord should make observations on a speech delivered in the other House