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is there any modern example that may compete change, in poetry as in other things, and it is not with the best examples of the past ? Unless this likely that while our knowledge of earth's wonders question can be answered in the affirmative, I say continues to increase there will be any lack of that descriptive poetry is exhausted. But as le material for such poems. It has been said that all mieux est toujours l'ennemi du bien, modern science becomes poetry after it has been philoexamples may be good, but the poetry of the sopby, and certainly a good deal of our science has future will require them to be better, or they will not yet appeared in this guise. We see, as PROF. only be a reflex of the past.

TOMLINSON says, that the preoccupation with I have already pointed out that Shakspere pos- nature which science supposes is already leading sessed that self-restraint of genius which enabled our poets in this direction, though they can hardly him to describe natural phenomena without be said, as yet, to have gone so far as, like Dante, attempting to explain them, or to make use of to "embody in their works literally all the intelexplanatory epithets, as has been done by inferior lectual knowledge of their time.” But why should poets. Limiting himself to what he saw, he has they not in the future ?

C. C. B. produced a true result, which on one occasion struck with admiration the mind of so exalted a man of science as Faraday. In his capacity of

JOHN OF GAUNT (8th S. iii. 109).- I think Ex

STIRPE PLANTAGEN ETARUM must be mistaken in scientific adviser to the Trinity Board, he was at one time often out at sea for the purpose of testo / Supposing John of Gaunt to have been descended ing the relative merits of oil and electricity for from Henry II. and Rosamund Clifford. lighthouse illumination. One beautiful starlight William de Longespéo and Geoffrey, Bishop of

Henry II, had two children by Fair Rosamund, night the engineer who sat by his side interrupted Lincoln. tho stillness by reciting some passages from The Merchant of Venice,' Act V.:

William de Longespée married Ela, daughter

and heir of William de Evreux, Earl of Salisbury, Look, how the floor of heaven Is thick inlaid with patinos of bright gold.

and on bis marriage received the earldom of Salis

bury as well as that of Rosmar from King Richard. Faraday listened with breathless attention, and He died in 1226, leaving a son, after some pause said, “Say it again."

William, who was deprived of his possessions The necessity for some knowledge of science on by King Henry III. This William was killed at the part of the poet was, I venture to think, made the assault of Massoura in 1250. He left a son, out in my papers on the thunderstorm. Other William, who died in 1256, leaving a daughter, natural phenomena might be advanced to show a Margaret, commonly called Countess of Salissimilar need, of which the following is an example. bury, who married Henry de Laci, Earl of Lincoln. In Blanco White's well-known sonnet 'Night and Their daughter and heir, Death' the subject thought is so exquisite that the Alice, commonly called Countess of Salisbury expression of it ought to be without a flaw. One and Lincoln, married Thomas Plantagenet, Earl of line, however, runs thus :

Lancaster, grandson of Henry III. The earl was Yet 'neath a curtain of translucent dew. beheaded in 1322, and his widow, who was married Dew never forms a curtain, for this conveys the twice after his death, died without issue in 1348. idea of something hanging down vertically, whereas

Henry Plantagenet succeeded his brother Thomas dow is deposited in a borizontal layer or stratum.

as Earl of Lancaster. He died in 1345, leaving a There are other objections which the severe critic son, Henry, who was created Earl of Lincoln in might urge, bat I forbear on account of the rare 1349, and Dake of Lancaster in 1351, and whose beauty of the performance.

daughter and eventually sole heiress, Blanche,

became the first wife of John of Gaunt. C. TOMLINSON, F.R.S., &c. Highgate, N.

John of Gaunt was created Duke of Lancaster in

1362; and possibly it may have been thought from What MR. BAYNE says of Swinburne " and his bearing the title of Lancaster, as well as from others” is perfectly true, and my note as first bis being tormed by some authorities Earl of Linwritten contained a paragraph to the same effect, cold, that he was a descendant of the above-named suppressed afterwards as being wide of the park. Thomas, Earl of Lancaster, and his wife Alice, The article which called forth the pote also wound Countess of Lincoln, with whom his wife Blanche, up with remarks upon our contemporary poets though not related to her by blood, bad, as I have which are quite inconsistent with the statement shown, a certain connexion. C. W. Cass. that “descriptive poetry has had its day-is exhausted "; and I can only understand this “DE MORTUIS NIL NISI BONUM" (8th S. iii. 28, opinion as referring to lengthy poems having the 151).- I can trace the exact phrase to a little description of natural phenomena for their chief earlier than 1672. In Ray's 'Proverbs, first pubraison d'être. My note was intended to point out lished in 1670, it is, “Speak well of the dead. that this is too hasty a conclusion. Fashions Mortais non conviciandum et de mortuis nil nisi

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bonum. Namque cum mortui non mordent, ini- these cycles of change, see Stallbaum's note on quum est ut mordeantur” (p. 84, 1855). For the Plato, Timæus,' 22 D. As to indexes to Plato, general statement about the dead compare ‘The Ast’s ‘Lexicon Platonicum'is a useful concordance. Funeral Oration of Pericles,' Thuc., ii. 44-6.

W. M. HARRIS, I can further carry it back to 1657. In Spencer's • Things New and old,' 819, it is, " To speak well extracts from records of the city of Norwich tend

OBOE (8th S. iii. 108, 174).—The following of the Dead......De mortuis nil nisi bonum, was the saying of old ; to speak well of the dead, is a

to show the antiquity of the term oboe or hautboy: thing both commendable and Christian” (vol. i.

"1589, xxv Jan.-This daye was redd in the court, a

letter sent to Master Mair and his brethren from Sir

ED. MARSHALL. p. 365, 1867).

Frances Drake, wherebyo he desyreth that the waytes THE LAST PEPPERCORN BREAKS THE CAMEL's of this citie may be sent to hym, to go the new intended

voyage; whereunto the waytes being here call'd, do all BACK" (8th S. iii. 48, 118).-—There is an earlier assent, whereupon it is agreed that they should have reference, previous to those in the replies, in Seneca, vi cloakes of stamell cloth made them redy before they • Ep.,' xxiv. 19:

go; and that a waggon shall be provided to carry them "Quemadmodum clepsydram non extremum stilli- and their instruments, and that they sball bave ili lb. cidium exhaurit, sed quidquid ante defluxit ; sic ultima to buy them three newe howboyes and

one treble recorder, hora qua esse desinimus, non sola mortem facit, sed sola and to bear theire chargys; and that the citie shali

hyre the waggon and paye for it. Also that the Cham. Consummat."

berlyn shall pay Peter Spratt xs. 3d. for a saquebut case; There is also in the same epistle a notice of the and the waytes to delyver to the chamberlyn before they line

go the cities cheanes. Mors non una venit, sed quæ rapit, ultima mors est. Another entry is as follows :

ED. MARSHALL. “ 1622. On Nov. 27 the City of Norwich possessed the Here is a new version of this, or at least new to following instruments— Fower Sackbutts, fower howme. In the Graphic of March 4 there is an article boyes, and an old howboye broken, two tenor cornetts, one

tenor recorder, two counter-tenor recorders, five chaynes, on The Muse of the Music Halls,' in which the and five flagges." following line from Mr. Pat Rafferty's parody on

ROBIN H. LEGGE. "The Man who broke the Bank at Monte Carlo' 33, Oakley Street, Chelsea, S.W. is quoted :

The best answer which I can give to WEYGHTE For I've got the bump through hearing Monte Carlo,

is to supply him with the following list of instru- with this foot-note :

ments (or midstrels) which I have noted on the Hump. A word now almost classic in the music-hall rolls. With the words oboe and hautbois I have world. Its origin is obscure, but its general tendency not met at all. may be perceived from the proverb, The last straw gives the camel the hump.'

Cithar (Pipe Roll, 21 Hen. II.), identical with C. C. B.

the harp (cf. Wardrobe Accounts, 26/9 and 26/10,

Q.R., 1326). St. GRASINUS (8th S. iii. 107, 198). . I Simphonist, vidulator (Wardr. Acct., 7/5, have communicated privately with the Rev. 1294). MR. CAVE-BROWNE, suggesting that, through the Thizerator (ibid., 29/24, 1304). likeness of E and G to each other in ancient Trumper (ibid., 25/7, 1325). script, “St. Grasinus" was either a miscopying or Harper, nakerer, taburer, corner, vielour (ibid., a misreading of “St. Erasmus,” and received the 33/10, 1328). following reply :

Lute (ibid., 25/15, 1325). Detling Vicarage, Maidstone, 4 March, Bugleborn (ibid., 26/10, 1326). DEAR SIR, - I am much obliged by your pote.


Sautreour (Close Roll, 2 Edw. III.). have no doubt, as several correspondents have sug.

Citoler, gitarer (Wardr. Acct., 34/11, 1330). gested, that the copyist mistook the capital letter, and turped Erasmus into Grasinus.

Bagpiper, guytterer (ibid., 61/8, 1335).
Yours faithfully, J. CAVE-BROWNE, Pipeblois (ibid., 62/2, 1340).


Loweder or lodder (ibid., 61/8, 1334). 105, Albany Road, Camberwell, S.E.

Piper, clarionere (ibid., 95/22, undated, temp. Ric. II.).

BERMENTRODE. PLATO ON REVOLUTIONS (8th S. iii. 147).-Ithink the passage to wbich your correspondent refers must DR. BELL'S SANDBAGS (8th S. iii. 188).–To be Plato, 'Politicus,' 269 c to 274 D; but the Dr. Andrew Bell we are indebted for the impetus length of the cycle must be much greater than 500 towards popular education which has culminated years, though no time is specified. If the time for in Board Schools and all their expensive apparatus. the soul to fulfil its number of births is taken to A biography of him is to be read in any good be the same as in the ‘Pbædrus’ (248 E), it will modern encyclopædia. His pamphlet, published not be less than 10,000 years. For references to quite towards the end of the last century, 'An other passages in Plato and other writers as to Experiment made in the Male Asylum at Madras, suggesting a System by which a School or Family I was brought up in the faith that tumblers were may teach itself under the superintendence of the so called from original lack of the wherewithal to Master or Parent,' was but little noticed until sit upright on the board, and Prof. Skeat assents Joseph Lancaster applied the system, in a modified thereunto when he notices, sub Tumble,” form, to schools for the children of Nonconformists. “ tumbl-er, a kind of drinking-glass, orig. without The Church of England then took it up, and a foot, so that it could not be set down except upon under the auspices of the National Society for its side when empty' ('Etymological Dictionary'). the Education of the Poor in the Principles of the There would seem to be a survival of this in the Established Church the system rapidly spread rounded base of glasses provided for tooth-brushthroughout the country. Économy being a great ing purposes in old-fashioned establishments. A feature in the plan, the sand-trays (to which carafe and “top” is the shop-name for such a J. E. B.'s query no doubt refers) were adopted. vessel and the bottle ministrant. A full account of the system was published by

St. SWITHIN. the S.P.C.K. in 1840, in a small tract (' Dr. Bell's

“SPERATE” (8th S. iii. 167).—“Debts Sperate System of Instruction Broken into Questions and Answers ?). From this we learn that "smooth, level 1725, some particulars of which are given in

and Desperate" occurs in an inventory dated trays, or boards, about three feet long, ten inches Finland Notes and Queries, ii. 140. The docu, wide, with ledges on every side, of an inch deep, ment contains a list of the goods of the landlord placed on a convenient bench or form, each to serve of the "Talbot Inn," Peterborough. for three children,” were provided, and a little dry

W. D. SWEETING. sand was put into them, so that " with a shake it

Maxey, Market Deeping. would become level.” The teacher then wrote in the sand, with bis finger, the letters he wished “ Dettes sperates and desperates both quyke his pupils to imitate, and after they had learned, and dede” is an expression which occurs on the

HERMENTRUDE. under his guidance, to copy them, the tray was Close Roll for 18 Edw. IV. shaken, and a copy of the letters set up for the

RAYMED DEEDS (8th S. iii. 147). — There is the children to continue practising upon.


well-known testamentary document, sixty years ago this method of teaching writing

In the word, was often to be seen in small village schools. Dr.

A friend to you, Bell was buried “with much pomp” at West

Where one friend old is midster, in 1832.


Worth a hundred now Weekley.

of William Oldys the antiquary.

GRO. S. MORRIS. Sand-trays or sand-desks are meant, concerning

Wimbledon, which see' N. & Q.,'6th S. vi. 542 ; 7th S., s. v. ‘Sand '; Yorkshire Weekly Post, March 15, 1884; The following lines (I quote from memory), on · Dict. Nat. Biog.,' xxxii. 39 b. W. O. B. the ancient stone of Scone, now resting under

neath the Coronation Chair in the Confessor's TUMBLER (8th S. iii. 168).—Though not a reply Chapel in Westminster Abbey, certainly refer in to this inquiry as to the origin of the word, it may rhyme to a very ancient inheritance :not be without interest to note that the idea of a

Unless the Fates be faithless grown, drinking vessel which, owing to its rounded base,

And Prophets' voice be vain, must be held in the band all the time any liquid

Where'er is found this sacred stone remained is very ancient, if one may judge from the

The Scottish race shall reign.

ALICE. form of the little mediæval pots of earthenware which are occasionally found in London excava- See the 'Monasticon, under Beverley and tions. I. O. GOULD, Ripon, and 'Memorials of Ripon' (Surtees, i. 90).

J. T. F. Considering that the explanation volunteered by

Bishop Hatfield's Hall, Durbam. MR. CLIFFORD Dons of this word as a drinkingglass is that given in Skeat's 'Dictionary' and FIVE ASTOUNDING Events (8th S. iii. 85, 171). probably in all other etymological dictionaries of -One of the most notable of the false prophet's value, it is rather quaint to ask, Has the explana- predictions appeared in 'Forty Coming Wonders' tion ever been inquired into? Why will not (pp. lxvi 542) issued in 1887 from the Christian inquirers consult ordinary books of reference before Herald office. The volume is crowded with por. rushing into 'N. & Q.'? MR. DUNN may, however, tentous pictures, diagrams, maps, and tables, and consult a still weightier authority on this point is described as the fiftieth thousand. In 1866 the than a dictionary. I allude to Cripps's * Old prophet Baxter had foretold that “Louis Napoleon English Plate.' At p. 309 (fourth edition) he will would be the Destined Monarch of the World,” find the subject dealt with from his great-uncle's but that "in the event of his death, some other point of view.

H. C. HART. Napoleon, standing in his place, will have to falfil these prophecies.” In 1880 " it seems probable, dently formed the floor of an apartment of superior although not as yet certain, that Prince Jerome dignity to those previously discovered, and measured will be the Last Great Napoleon.” This 1887 84 ft. broad by 18 it. long. "It is marked off by a guil

loche border running from end to end, and divided into volume very fully prophesies as far ahead as 1901, square panels, set in pairs side by side, eurrounded by and gives April il, "the Last Day of Passover the same border, each panel containing an ornamental Week," as the Last Day.

ESTE, design. Two of these are elegantly formed amphoræ

with double handles. The others are conventional forms An OLD ITALIAN PROVERB (7th S. ii. 308, 415). arranged in a star shape. The ground of the whole is - In a collection of some choice ffrench proverbes," I white, the patterns being worked in tesseræ of red and forming part of Bacon's 'Promus,' there is a French blue pottery. It is noticeable how excellent an effect

has been produced with such common materials and form of Grose's English version of the proverb such small variety of colour. We have had pleasure in quoted by MR. BRIERLEY at the latter reference, learning that the Mayor (T. Wallis, Esq.), with admirnamely, “ Angleterre lo Paradis de femmes, le able promptitude, immediately on being informed of pourgatoire de valetts, l'enfer de chevaux.' A the discovery put bimself in communication with Mr. much earlier variant occurs in Bonaventure des Ramsden with the viow of the preservation of this Periers’s ‘Nouvelles Recreations,' nouv. xxxi., tion of our ancient city, which may safely be dated not

beautiful pavement as a memorial of the Roman occupawhere it is said of a certain dame :

less than sixteen centuries back, and is probably earlier, " Le plus du temps elle estoit à Paris : car elle s'y The further development of this discovery is awaited trouvoit bien, d'autant que c'est le paradis des femmes, with much interest." l'enfer des mules, et le purgatoire des solicitours."


"TAKE THE CAKE” (8th S. i. 69, 176, 364 ; ii. 105, Albany Road, Camberwell, 8.E.

215).-Concerning this expression, which has been *CHAMBERS’S LONDON JOURNAL' (86b S. iii. much discussed of late, the following, from Bartlett 128). — In an interesting series of papers appearing and Coyne's 'Scenery and Antiquities of Ireland' in your contemporary Scottish Notes and Queries (184), describing a dance in front of a shebeen, is Mr. Jas. W. Scott, who is writing there a Biblio- an interesting illustration :graphy of Edinburgh Periodical Literature,' has A churn-dish stuck into the earth supported on its fully treated of the origin and history of all the fiat end a cake, which was to become the prize of the

best dancer. The contention was carried on for a long periodicals issued by W. & R. Chambers. I would recommend MR. PICKFORD to get the yielded their claims to a young man, the son of a rich

time with extraordinary spirit; at length the competitors December number for 1892 of Scottish Notes and farmer in the neighbourhood, who, taking the cake, Queries, and there he will learn all that he asks placed it gallantly in the lap of a pretty girl, to whom about and a good deal more. Mr. Scott men.

I understood he was about to be married." - Vol. ii. p. 64. tions that Chambers's London Journal appeared

EDWARD H. MARSHALL, M. A. thirteen weeks after the publication of the

Edinburgh edition, which was first issued on
March 31, 1832. Twenty-two years after its first

REGISTER, REGISTRAR (7th S. X. 66, 136, 295, appearance the name of the journal was changed 414). The following, which I transcribed from the to Chambers's Journal, and no doubt at that time second page of the first book of the Cambridge the special London edition would be dropped.

Matriculation Register, commencing 1544, appaW. B. R. WILSON.

rently furnishes an earlier instance of the use of the

term Register=Registrary= Registrar than any The first pomber is dated Saturday, June 5, previously given by your correspondents, and at 1841, the last (No. 127), Saturday, Oct. 28, 1843. the same time curiously informs us as to the The price of it was three-halfpence weekly or duties of the Uoiversity Register at that early seven pepce monthly. H. H. Chambers, of 59, date :Fleet Street, was the original proprietor ; but it

Who due wilbe A Register seems to bave changed hands shortly before it Bhuld Hold hys penne in truth entyere ceased to exist.

G. F. R. B.

Encearch be ought recordys of olde

l'he dowt to trye the right to holde ROMANS IN BRITAIN (76 8. xii. 186).—The

The Lawes to knowe He must contende following cutting from the Stamford Mercury of

Old customys eke he shuld expende

No paynes to wright he mayo refuse February 17 has reference to that from the Stam

Hys offyce ellys he doth Abuse. ford Guardian of Aug 14, 1891 :

W. I. R. V. “Lincoln.—The prosecution of the ironstone works on the site of the Roman villa in Greetwell Fields during CAARLES II., TAE Fish, AND THE ROYAL the last week luid bare a fresh piece of Roman tessel Society (8th S.'ii. 526). — To trace the paternity lated pavement of much more ornamental design than of this story would indeed be a difficult task. those already discovered, which, it will be remembered: By some it is attributed to James I., who, on the manager, in the last volume of the Architectural Society's solution of the difficulty, clapped the solver on the Transactions. The portion now brought to light evi- back, saying "that be was a braw feelosopher.” But with greater probability it is assigned to his is Pontius Pilate's wife's chambermaid's sister's hat.' grandson, Charles II., in whose reign the Royal To my knowledge of this very hat, it may be added that Society was founded. Archbishop Whately, in the since it was demanded of them to make bricks without remarkable chapter “Of Fallacies" in his 'Ele it.”—The Tatler, No. 34. ments of Logic (book iii. § 14) records tbis as an The coffee-house was first opened in 1695 by one instance of “indirect assumption":

Salter, who had been & servant to Sir Hans Sloane. “It succeeds better, therefore, to allude to the pro- The collection of curiosities was principally the position as something curious and remarkable, just as the gift of his master, being duplicates of his various Royal Society wore imposed on by being asked to account curious collections, and consisted of corals, ores, to its weight by a live fish put into it ; while they were animals preserved in spirits, idols, birds, seeking for the cause they forgot to ascertain the fact, &c. Steele was only “poking fun.” The straw and thus admitted without suspicion a mere fiction." hat was as much a myth as its history. The col.

John PICKFORD, M.A. lection existed for more than a century, and was Newbourne Rectory, Woodbridge.

at length sold in 1799. H. G. GRIFFINHOOFE. The "fish " anecdote sounds like a stock joke.

34, St. Petersburg Place, W. It occurs to me that many incidents may be recorded The writer quoted probably had in his mind contemporaneously, and not appear in public till the collection of rarities and curiosities, many of the diarist's decease, yet be veritable. As to the doubtful genuineness, preserved through the greater mace question, it has been bandied about almost part of the last century at Don Saltero's coffeead nauseam. Cromwell's bauble appears to have house, Chelsea. For information on this place of remained in the Speaker's hands, with suitable resort, and a variety of references, see ‘N. & Q.,' alterations, after the Restoration ; but I am not 7th S. vi. 328, 472.

G. L. APPERSON. satisfied that the mace used in the reign of Charles I. was destroyed. We do know that

The coffee-house referred to in the extract it was superseded by a fresh one made for the quoted by MR. DRUMMOND-MILLIKEN is the celeCommonwealtb.

brated Don Saltero's (for its history see Faulkner's I think it very probable that it survived and is or Beaver's 'Chelsea '), and the reference is probably now used by the Royal Society, as presented on

taken from Steele, in the Tatler (No. 34), where he May 23, 1663. A mere warrant might be annulled. says, “He [Don Saltero] shows you a straw hat, Where is the tradesman's bill of charges ; what which I know. to be made by Madge Peskad, entry of payment is there in the accounts ?' Sup within three miles of Bedford, and tells you it is posing the mace rejected by Parliament to have in a Catalogue of the Rarities to be seen at Don

Pontius Pilate's wife's chambermaid's sister's hat." survived, motives of economy may well have Saltero's Coffee - house in Chelsea, thirty-ninth prompted its use under the warrant referred to, edition, I have by mo, item 108 is “ Queen Elizawith perhaps a little polishing up.


beth's Chambermaid's Hat." Steele's “ Pontius A COFFEE-HOUSE ÎN CAELSEA (8th S. iii. 128).

Pilate" may have been an exaggeration of this, -No doubt a hundred devotees of N. & Q.' will

or it may have been so rendered in an earlier rash to tell Me. DRUMMOND-MILLIKEN that Don The catalogue contains the titles of many extra

edition, and perhaps earlier still "Potiphar. Saltero's coffee-house in Cheyne Walk, Chelsea, where there was a museum of odds and ends and William the Conqueror " to " A. Petrified Ham"

ordinary curiosities, from the “Flaming Sword of bistorical gimcracks, much ridiculed by Steele (in the Tatler) and others, and mentioned in scores of and “A Pair of Nun's Stockings."

J. HENRY Quinn. books, was intended in the text he quotes. I remember the place, which had become a sort

[See also 4th S. iii. 580; iv. 420.] of tavern, well known to boating men, and the Rev. J. A. WALLINGER (8th S. i. 148, 196, débris of its once renowned museum.


237, 321 ; ii. 392, 472). -He was the only son The allusion is to one of the curiosities in the and fourth child of John Wallinger Arnold Walwell-known coffee-house of Don Saltero. Steele linger, Esq. (ob. 1805), of Hare Hall, in the parish mentiods it in his humorous description of the of Romford, co. Essex, where he was born in the once famed collection of rarities :

year 1794. I have no record of his ordination as " Though I go thus far in favor of Don Saltero's great deacon, but

be was admitted to priests orders by merit, I cannot allow a liberty ho takes of imposing the Archbishop of York, in Bishop-Thorpe Church, several names (without my licence) on the collections he on July 18, 1824. He was successively curate of bas made, to the abuse of the good people of England; Hatfield, co. York, Malling, co. Kent, Tudeley. one of which is particularly calculated to deceive reli- cum-Capel, co. Kent, and Kingswood (Bristol), co. gious persone, to the great scandal of the well disposed, Gloucester. After serving the curacies of Kensing and may introduce heterodox opinions. you a straw. bat, wbich I know to be made by Madge ton and Queen Square Chapels, Bath, Mr. WalPeakad, within three miles of Bedford, and tells you . It linger purchased Corn Street Chapel, in the same

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