army; but that he never expected from its adoption, however, any sudden effect, but rather a gradual amelioration in the recruiting of the army, leading finally to the most beneficial effects. The measure, as far as it had now been tried, abundantly promised all the benefits he had anticipated, and he was satisfied that, while it continued to be tried, it would be found more and more beneficial every year.It was not till last October, that the measure had been carried regularly into effect. Consequently there had not been a fair trial in the last year. But it was certain, that it had been eminently successful in the two great objects of obtaining a greater number of men at a lower bounty, and in the diminution of desertion. If it had been tried in the other eight or nine months of the year, he was certain that the beneficial effects of it would have been more conspicuous. These were the only points that he considered it his duty to notice. If any gentleman required farther explanations, he would most readily give them. He then moved the first resolution, which has been already stated. Lord Castlereagh admitted that the secretary at war had made his statement with great candour, but he was sorry to see the house called upon to state an opinion, ge. nerally, on a large branch of the public expenditure, when a great part of the branch of that expenditure remained unexplained, and to sanction by implication the new military measures, the charges for which were included in the vote, without any explanation as to their effect, or their distinct expence. The effective force on foot should be looked to, and then it would be for the consideration of the house, 2 whether ministers had an army ade. quate to the expence to which they put the country. The boasted na tional saving, always excepting the new expenditure, was an economy upon establishment alone, and not on the effective force serving against the enemy. Upon a reference to the estimates, it would be found that the gross number of men was 334,180. From this was to be deducted the num. ber of commissioned and non-commissioned officers, which left only 293,400. This was the estimate of the establishment: but, from the effective force there was a farther de duction to be made of 37,000, which would reduce the actual force to 260,555. He was always desirous to vote supplies to the full extent in which they could be made use of for the benefit of the country: but he thought it too much to ask funds for 37,000, who were not in exist. ence, nor likely to be so.---Nothing had occurred since the agitation of military subjects in that house in March last, to occasion any wish to diminish the force of the country. If our operations could not be di rected towards the continent, our troops might be employed in ma ritime attacks. The interests of the nation imperatively required a great augmentation of the army. The country had a right to expect the accomplishment of this object from his majesty's present ministers, and above all from the right honourable the secretary at war, who, both in the late administration and that of lord Sidmouth, had said, that those administrations should be disgraced and degraded for the inefficiency of their military measures. Lord Castlereagh proceeded to compare the increase of our military strength on Mr. Windham's plan, both with that honourable gentleman's own idea of what what was necessary, and with that which had taken place under administrations that had incurred his pointed censures; and contended from a variety of statements and calcula. tions, that it had fallen greatly short of both. After he had shewn, he said, that Mr. Windham's experiment, in respect to the increase of numbers, had fundamentally failed, he wished that the comparison of expence between the right honour. able gentleman's system, and those which preceded it, could afford consolation: but the reverse was the case. He considered Mr. W.'s system, as a system not only of fundamental military ruin, but of enormous and ruinous expence. It also tended to the complete subversion of the situation of a soldier, as it had hitherto existed in the British army, and to the total destruction of all order and subordination. He had placed the claim of a soldier to a pension on the foundation of a legal right, and not on the recommenda. tion of the general officer, on which alone it could with safety rest. Mr. Windham, among many other observations in reply to lord Castle. reagh, who had spoken for not less than three hours, said that the noble lord had dwelt at very great length on the details of the expence of the new system, and upon this expence he had founded his principal objections to it. But he had certainly forgot that most of the gen. tlemen in that house had heard him speak at great length on that subject, but with very little success. For, after arguing for more than hour, that the expence of raising so many men by such means would be ruinous, he had contended in the very same breath, that no men would by that means be raised at all! He had begun by reckoning the life of a soldier discharged from service, and who had encountered hardships and a variety of climates, to be worth 21 years; according to the calculation of the insurance-offices for the lives of those who had lived at home, and in a different manner. If the house would but grant the noble lord his basis, his calculations and his arguments might be very well: but when the basis was removed as fallacious, these must fall with it. In arguing about the expences of the new system, the gentlemen on the other side always appeared to consider, that this increase of expence had been adopted for the mere purpose of obtaining recruits: whereas he had always stated that it was a bare act of justice, due to the brave men who had spent their lives in the service of the country. Expence, after all, was a relative term, and ought to be considered in relation to its object. A hundred pounds might be a great deal for one object, and a hundred thousand nothing for another. The argument of expence, however, did not appear to have so much weight with those gentlemen when it was connected with the volunteer establishment, which was a great favourite with them, as they supposed it to be one of their own measures.---No reduction had been proposed in the number of volun. teers, but merely in certain expences which were exorbitantly extravagant. The great body of the volunteers must themselves have perceived the extravagance of the former expences, as a number of favourite corps had been given large extra allowances above what were given to volunteers in general. The striking off those extra allowances to favourite corps of volunteers, had been a saving to the the public of between 3 and 400,000l. But, the same gentleman that so violently opposed this diminution of expence, now, when there came to be a question about granting some increase of allowance to men who had devoted their lives, and impaired their constitutions in the service of their country, wished to dole out that pittance with a niggardly hand, and made it a matter of reproach to him that he had brought forward the measure. It would, however, be the pride of his life, to suppose that he had been instrumental in increasing the comforts of those to whom the nation was so much indebted. Nor should be envy the noble lord, and the gentlemen on the other side, if they could bring forward their schemes and calculations to shew how our brave soldiers could be starved at a much cheaper rate than they could be maintained. The provision given to the soldiers on their discharge had not before been increased since the days of Charles II. And when it was considered that money was so much depreciated in value since that period, he would ask why the defenders of the country by land or by sea, were to be the only class of those who serve her, who were to have no in crease of allowance on that account, or no share in the prosperity and bounty of the nation? The noble lord had said, that the new system would operate only on the bargaining part of the society: that is, on thoughtful and consider ate men who looked somewhat to faturity. He appeared to think that the most valuable class was, the thoughtless, the imprudent, and those who were easy to be acted upon by the arts of crimps, or the immediate temptation of high bounty. Mr. Windham considered that nothing could be more desirable, than to get into the army that thoughtful, considerate, and undebauched class of men on whch the noble lord appeared to set so little value : men who could be relied on, on all emergencies that required steadiness, or intelligence. The object of the new system was not merely a tempory addition to our army, or a forcing the military means of the country beyond their natural power, but a positive increase of both those means and that power. He had not, when he introduced that system, appeared so sanguine about its immediate operation, as many of those who supported it. But he would now say, that the operation of it hitherto had been much greater than he had stated or calculated. In speaking of the army of reserve, he had considered it only as a temporary measure, and the event shewed that it was no more; for that measure died of itself, though not till it had produced a consider able temporary supply to the army. Of all temporary measures proposed, it was certainly the best; as it pro duced 40,000 men: but when it had done that, it could go no farther.--. As to the Additional Force act, ano. ther temporary measure, he now thought it failed in every object it proposed. For, if from the addition which had been made to the army, during the late administration of two years, a deduction were made of those men who entered from the army of reserve, and the 13,000 men who entered from the militia, (which was only changing the existing force from one hand to another,) and the allowing officers to raise corps for rank, (the very worst way of rais ing men), the actual increase would be found to be very small indeed. They were like a dram given to the country which for the moment might increase its power, but which would be followed by greater languor and debility. The measure which he proposed, had for its object, not a mere temporary increase of num. bers, but a permament increase of the power and military means of the country. The first of these means was, to make the service as desire. able as possible to those who were embarked in it. The second, to make it as generally known to the public as possible, what advantages and comforts were in future to be given to those who should enter into the army. But if, hereafter, it should be judged necessary to resort to any sort of compulsory measures, even then the advantages of the present system would be felt, as it would be much easier to procure substitutes, if the service was made desireable than if it was not.--The great benefit of the present system was, that it would provide for the progressive supply of the army. This progression made him prefer it to any measure that would have a sudden or violent operation, because the state of the army was such (being 12,000 stronger than at the beginning of last year), as not to make any violent measure necessary. By a comparison of the accounts from the office of the inspector-general of recruits, with the accounts of correspondent periods of former years, he found that there was a growing increase, small at first, but at length amounting to an excess in the proportion of two to one.---As to the circumstance of the men being entitled to the allowance of right, it had been thought proper that men who had spent their lives and con stitutions in the service of their country, after a service of fourteen or twenty-one years, should not be left to the caprice of commanding officers. The noble lord had ob. served, by way of objection to the measure adopted for recruiting the army, that a man, if disabled, might be entitled to his pension, after a service of two or three years. But, if disabled in the service, Mr. Windham would ask, why he should not? Mr. Perceval said, that the facts respecting the recruiting service, stated by the right honourable the secretary at war, were different from those that were to be collected from the papers on the table. He might have an accurate account in his pocket, but it would have been more respectful if he had submitted it to the examination of the house. In the two favourite months of October ar✦ November last, selected by Mr. W. 2,220 men were obtained. In the same two months of 1805, no fewer than 3,103 had been acquired, being an excess of 883 men. In the four months of February, March, April, and May, 1806, more men were obtained by the regular recruiting under Mr. Pitt's bill, than in the favourite months of the new mode.---Mr. P. objected to the new arrangement, that a man subject to epilepsy, or other distemper, ren. dering him unfit for duty, was to be allowed to retire with all the benefits of long service; thus obtaining a be nefit by fraud at the expence of the public. Lord Howick, taking the final result of the measures of last admi. nistration, for increasing the army, shewed by a very clear and authentic statement, that the whole number raised by those measures, was 5222; of which, 3422 were procured for rank -- reak, and 1073 mere boys; leaving as the produce of their exertions only 707 men which could possibly be considered as a beneficial acquisi. tion to the army. Let these vain and illusive attempts, he said, be compared, not with the promises, but with the advantageous effects of the measures of his right honourable friend, and the result would meet the wishes of every friend to the military strength of the country. The constant strain on the part of the noble lord, and learned gentle. man who had spoken last, was, "Compare what ye have done, with what we had promised. We engaged to supply 25 or 26,000 men under the former mode of recruiting.". They might have said, what was the fact? 40,000.---Of the propriety or fairness of this kind of comparison, he should say nothing. But, at. tending to the vast inequality be. tween the assurances given and the event, he could not entertain any very sanguine hopes of what those gedtlemen would have done, even if they had had the most favourable opportunity of multiplying both their promises and exertions....The honourable and learned gentleman had talked much of February, March, April, and other periods: but no comparison could be made between the different modes of recruiting, as the information respecting the new system was limited to October. Availing himself, then, of all the intelligence received on the subject, he found the relative effect to be as follows: the regular recruit ing in 1805, from the 20th of October to the 15th of the present month (January) produced 1208 men. Under the new measures there were obtained, in the same interval, 2155, yielding an addition of 917 men. Vol. XLIX. Lord Howick protested, however, against the charge so frequently re peated, that Mr. W. had, at any time, declared his confidence or expectation that any extensive addition to the public force was to be expected from the means to which he had resorted, suddenly. On the contrary, it had been constantly urged, that all that could be expected from the measure, was a gradual and progressive improvement, derived principally from an amelioration of the condition of the army, under a conviction in the public mind, of the increased respectability of our mi litary establishments. The learned gentleman opposite, had said, that by the new measures, pensions, and other emoluments, might be obtained by fraud. Was he a lawyer, in-` structed in all the erudition of his profession; and yet ignorant, that by the laws of England no man can sustain any demand founded on a fraud? Mr. P. had supposed the case of a man inlisting, to be subject to the epilepsy. Did not that learned gentleman know, that perjury must be committed for procuring admis sion under such circumstances? Indeed there were prosecutions grounded on this violation of moral and religious duty.-The resolutions moved by Mr. Windham were then agreed to, and reported on Friday January 23d. Upon the first resolution being read, Sir James Pulteney observed, that though Mr. Windham might not have been very sanguine, as to the number of men his plan might raise, yet the advocates of the system must, no doubt, have expected that it would produce some increase. Whereas, on the contrary, it appeared by the estimates, that it had occasioned a di minution. However his majesty's Ꮐ ministers |