thing; it is rather a strange thing to me that Q. You remember signing every page, don't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that is your signature there (indicating paper), isn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that is your signature there (indicatpaper), isn't it? A. Yes, sir. The Court: In the seventh grade. Now, you remember thirty days ago; now, let me tell you something. I suppose have you heard that it is an offense against the law to commit perjury? A. I don't know what you mean by that. The Court: Well, that is to swear falsely on the witness stand; now, you are liable to the law and could be punished for violating the law. Did you know that? A. No, sir. The Court: And it is a violation of law for you not to tell the truth. I want you just to go on and tell the truth, however it may be; you will save yourself trouble by it. A. That is what I want to tell. The Court: Yes; .well, all right; now go ahead and do it then. You may ask some more questions. Mr. Miller: Q. You told Mr. Burwell and myself and Mr. Ray Johnson that Von-that Howard Venable had his hand underneath your clothing, didn't you? A. I don't know. Q. Ola, you weren't crying at the time, were you? A. No, sir; but the first time that anybody was ever before a bunch of men in a courthouse, you know anybody would be confused. Q. Sure, and it was easier for you to tell a story at that time than it was the truth, is that it? A. Yes, sir. Q. It was. Ola, Mr. Burwell told you that you were just like one of his own girls, didn't he, in there; and he told you he wanted you to tell the truth about it; that he was Mr. Frank Fincher's best friend, didn't he? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that is your signature there (indicat Q. And that is your signature there (indicatpaper), isn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you held up your hand, didn't you, Ola? A. Yes, sir. Q. You held up your hand there and swore to it; you remember that, don't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you took this instrument, Ola, and it was read over to you, wasn't it, by Mr. Guleke? A. No; it wasn't read over to me. Q. Well, you read it yourself there, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. You read every word in it, didn't you? A. Well, no; I didn't read it all; I was in such a hurry and worried. Q. Who told you to say that? A. Nobody. Q. Ola, you were in the room when I phoned your mother weren't you, and asked her to bring you down to the office and let me talk to you? A. In the room when you phoned my mother? Q. Yes, ma'am. A. No; I don't believe I was. Q. Well, would you say so if you were? A. Yes, sir; I would say so if I were, but I don't believe I was in the room when you phoned my mother. I don't even remember you calling her up. Q. Ola, you weren't excited down at Clarendon, were you? A. Yes, sir; I was excited. The Court: Are you excited now? A. Yes, sir; I am excited now. Mr. Miller: Q. Do you know what the penalty is for swearing a falsehood? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know it is penitentiary offense to set there and swear to a falsehood? A. I don't understand what you mean. (Reading:) The Court: I will read it to you. "The crime of perjury shall be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary for a term not Q. You remember that, don't you, Ola? A. more than ten nor less than two years.' Do Yes, sir. Q. And he said, 'Ola, I wouldn't have you tell a falsehood at all,' didn't he? A. I don't remember him saying that. Q. You remember him saying that, don't you, Ola? A. No, sir; I don't remember him saying that. you know there is a woman up there in jail now in Amarillo convicted and sent to the penitentiary for twenty years? A. No, sir. Mr. Underwood: Your honor, we desire to take a bill of exceptions. The Court: Well, certainly; you understood that you would get a full bill. Q. And don't you remember that you told us that when they got out of the car that-the oth-going to give us a full bill. er two got out of the car that he laid you down on that seat, and that his private male organ penetrated your private female organ, didn't you? A. Yes; I remember saying that. Mr. Mood: I understood that your honor was Q. You remember saying it, and, Ola, that is the God's truth, isn't it? A. No, sir. Q. You know that you are under oath, don't you, Ola? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you know that you swore and signed to this instrument I hold in my hand? A. Yes, sir. The Court: Certainly, if you get any advantage out of this, just go to it. Mr. Mood: Well, we take an exception to that. The Court: Certainly, you have got an exception to everything. Q. You have been receiving company since you made that statement there to Mr. Miller? A. No, sir. Q. Haven't gone with anybody? A. No, sir. Q. You saw your signature there, didn't you? I have spoke to him. A. Yes, sir. Q. Did the court show it to you? A. Yes, sir. Q. There is your signature on the first page, so that it couldn't be changed? A. Yes, sir. Q. Not at all? A. I have spoke to him when I have been in the chocolate shop. Q. Well, you talked to him, didn't you? A. No; I just spoke to him as I went in. 524 Q. And that is all? A. And that is all. Q. Talk to Mr. Von Rosenberg? A. No, sir. Q. Not at all? A. No, sir; I haven't seen him. A. I think Q. Well, what did he say? A. About my age; he was asking my mother about my age. Q. What did he say to you? A. He didn't say a thing to me. Q. What did he say to your mother? asked her about my age. A. He Q. Did Mr. Mood talk to you? matter. Mr. Miller: You can either, Ola, testify to the truth of the transaction or, I will be perfectly frank with you, be indicted for perjury; now, you can just go either route you want to go; now, I want to give you a fair show and warning. Mr. Underwood: We take a bill to that. The Court: Certainly, you get your bill to everything, you needn't take a bill any more; the stenographer is getting it. Mr. Miller: You can do that, or you can substitute your virtue and your life in the penitentiary for the freedom of this man; do you want to do that? A. I want to tell the truth. Q. No; you don't; you aren't telling the truth; you know that Irene Tucker isn't in the state, don't you? A. I don't know where she is. Q. Well, you know that she isn't in the state, don't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. You know that; you have been told that; haven't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Who told you? A. Well, Miss Mathews told me that she was in Denver, Colorado. Q. Miss Mathews? A. Yes, sir. Q. When I told you that morning that I would have a doctor to examine you, what did you say? A. What did I say? Q. Yes, ma'am. A. I said I didn't want any doctor. Q. You said further-what did you say further? A. I don't remember what all I said. Q. You said that-then you began to relate to me the story, didn't you, right at the time? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that is the truth, isn't it? sir. Q. Didn't you? The Court: What is the truth? A. No, Mr. Miller: Didn't you tell those men down there in the grand jury room at Donley county, after reading this statement to them, after being sworn, that this was the truth? A. You didn't read the statement. Q. Didn't read the statement to you at all? A. No, sir. Q. And you didn't relate there that what you had told there was the truth? A. Yes, sir. Q. You told them that was the truth, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you told them that Howard Venable Bad intercourse with you there, didn't you? A. Yes, sir; I said that. Q. And you said that was the truth, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And it was the truth, wasn't it? A. No, sir. Q. Who told you to say that it wasn't the truth? A. Nobody. Q. Didn't your mother? A. No, sir. Q. Did Howard Venable? A. No, sir. Q. What did Mr. Mood say to you when he was out there? A. He was just out there talking. Q. What else did he say? A. I don't know my age-wanted to know how old I was. no. Q. Now be careful. A. No; that wasn't all the words he said. Q. Do you mean to tell me that you didn't Q. Never made a statement to him? sir. A. No, Q. Who told you not to say that you did? A. Nobody. Mr. Miller: Well, I will file a complaint, Judge; I am not going to monkey with no such business as this. The Court: Do you care to examine the witness, Mr. Guleke; maybe she might remember, you took that down, didn't you? Mr. Guleke: Q. Do you remember on the morning of the 9th of July? A. Yes, sir. Q. Going downstairs in the courthouse? A. Yes, sir. Q. Who was there? A. Well, you were there, and that Mr. Johnson, I believe that is his name, and Mr. Miller. Q. Mr. Miller and Judge Landis? A. Yes; Judge Landis. Q. Was he there? You sat on the left-hand side of the table, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Across from me? A. Yes, sir. Q. And I wrote on the typewriter? A. Yes, sir. Q. And Judge Landis sat at the head of the table, you remember? A. Yes, sir. Q. And Mr. Miller sat over on the same side of the table by you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you talked there for quite a while? A. Yes, sir. Q. And as you testified I wrote it down on the typewriter? A. Yes, sir. Q. And after we had finished with your testimony, we asked you to read this over, didn't we? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you did read it over? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you told us that you had told all that you knew about it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Everything, and that it was the truth? A. Yes, sir; and said that. Q. And after reading it over carefully you signed your name to each sheet of paper, didn't A. Yes, sir. Q. You were excited? A. Yes, sir; and you had me all confused. Q. You were excited at Clarendon, were you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Very much excited. Well, why did you persist in swearing to a falsehood? A. Well, I just didn't know what I was saying to all of those questions; they would say something, and I would answer 'Yes' or 'No' to it; I didn't know what half of those words meant that they were saying. Q. Don't you remember telling us this story? A. Yes, sir; I remember telling you that story. Q. You told us the story, didn't you? Yes, sir. A. Q. And every once in a while we would have to stop you, because I couldn't write it on the typewriter as fast as you could talk, isn't that a fact? A. Yes, sir. Q. And we told you we had plenty of time; just to take your time and we would get it all down in writing; that is a fact, isn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. You weren't hurried at all, had plenty of time; and now you are going to come here under the sanction of an oath and say that you swore to a falsehood? A. Yes, sir. Q. I don't know of anything else. The Court: Let me have that statement. I wish you would point out some of the words that you don't understand in there (handing paper to witness). A. (Reading statement.) (Witness turns first page.) The Court: Didn't find any on the first page? A. No, sir. (Reading:) I don't know what that means (indicating). Q. Said take you down where? A. Down in the back seat. Q. Take you down in the back seat? A. Yes, sir. Q. When you were sitting up there? A. Yes, sir. Q. And he was on the front seat, and you were on the back? A. Yes, sir. Q. And she just turned and told him- A. Him. Q. Was that when Rosenberg was lying on top of her? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, what did you think they were doing? A. Well, I didn't pay much attention to them; I just went on talking to Buzz. Q. Well, what did you think they were doing? A. I didn't think; I knew what they were doing. Q. Well, what were they doing? What do you say they were doing? A. Huh? Q. Do you know what they were doing now; have you forgot what they were doing? A. No, sir. Q. Well, what were they doing? A. Well, he was going up and down on her. Q. I know; but-what did you think that amounted to? A. I didn't know. Q. Well, all right. After he pushed me over and pulled up my dress, they went on to the haystack. Buzz kept after me to have intercourse with him, and I told him, "No," that I was sick.' What do you mean by sick-headache? A. No, sir; my monthlies were on. Q. You know what 'monthlies' is all right? A. Yes, sir. The Court: What is that, you don't know is? what intercourse' is? A. No, sir. Q. But you don't know what female organ A. No, sir. Q. You know what male organ is? A. No, Q. All right. A. Here is another one I don't sir. know (indicating). Q. 'Penetrated;' don't know what 'penetrated' is? A. No, sir; and I don't know what that means (indicating). Q. 'Penis;' don't know what that is? A. No, sir; and I don't know what you mean by this (indicating). Q. Spell that. A. Female organ. Q. You don't know what female organ is? A. No, sir. (Witness turns second page.) That is all. Q. That is all you don't understand? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, here it is; you didn't call my attention to it; there it is, right there. Didn't you say, 'I could feel his male organ within my private female organ,' and you know what your private female organ is? A. No, sir; that is what I showed you I didn't know. Q. And here is, 'His private male organ.' You didn't tell me about that, did you? A. No, sir; I must have overlooked that, Q. Uh, huh! you don't know what a male organ or a female organ is, either? A. No, sir. Q. Well, what did you say, 'I know what intercourse means?' You said it there, didn't Q. You understand all the rest of it? A. Yes, you? A. No, sir. sir. Q. Well, he did ask you here, 'Buzz kept on after me to have intercourse with him, and I told him, "No," I was sick.' What did you mean when he was asking you to have intercourse with you? A. He didn't say that. Irene said something. I said, 'What do you mean? and I said, 'No, you won't either.' I don't know what she said. Q. What did you think he meant? A. Well, I didn't know; he didn't say nothing like that. Q. You didn't say that? A. No, sir. Q. Well, what in the world did you sign that for, then? You read that over didn't you? A. No, sir; I didn't read it all over; I wanted to get home. The Stenographer: How is that? A. I wanted to get home. The Court: Q. You wanted to get home? A. Yes, sir; and I just don't know what all I said. Q. Well, I am afraid you are very unfortunate in being in such a hurry at that time. Well, do you know what 'inside' of you is? A. Yes, sir; I know what 'inside of me' is. Q. What did you mean when you said, 'I Q. Oh, well; you said that he did, didn't you, here? A. No; I didn't say that. Q. You didn't say that? A. No, sir. Q. Well, what did he say, then? A. He could feel his male organ within my female or didn't say nothing; we just talked. Q. Well, you just said just before that when he said something? A. He asked me, 'What did she mean?' Irene told him to take me down, and he said, 'What do you mean?' gan; I could feel his organ inside of me?' didn't say that. Q. You didn't? A. No, sir. A. I Q. And you say these four or five men around here that were all present and saw this thing written down, the sheriff of the county, and the district attorney, and Mr. Guleke, and the county attorney, Mr. Johnson, and Mr. Landis? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'He went up and down on me.' Did he go up and down on you like this? A. No, sir. Q. How did he go up and down on you? A. He didn't even bother me. The Stenographer: What? A. He didn't even bother me. The Court: Q. What do you mean by 'bother you'? A. Well, what you said there; he didn't even go up and down on me. Q. Well, 'I told him that it hurt me.' What was it-what was hurting you? A. I didn't say anything was hurting me. Q. You didn't say that anything was hurting you? A. No, sir. Q. "The hurt was greatest at the opening of my female organ? A. I don't know what that means. Q. What did you mean by that? A. I don't know; there are lots of things there that I don't know what they mean at all; I haven't the slightest idea. Q. Well, why didn't you tell it a while ago, when I told you about everything you didn't understand? A. I told you all of those things. Q. Well, you got up and walked out to the barbed wire fence, did you? A. Yes. Q. You remember that, don't you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did you get up from? A. We got out of the car there where we were sitting. Q. Neither one of you laid down at all? A. No, sir; he laid down, and was asleep with his head in my lap, and his feet out of the door there. Q. Did he hug you and kiss you? A. Yes, sir; he hugged me and kissed me on the side of my face. Q. Well, you said, 'We looked over;' you remember going up to the barbed wire fence, 'that we got up and walked out to the barbed wire fence, we looked over the barbed wire fence, and Von Rosenberg was on top of Irene, and she was laying on her back'-do you remember that? A. Yes, sir. Q. You remember that? A. Yes, sir. Q. You remember that, and you remember that in the car, too, when she was laying on her back in the car? A. Yes, sir; I remember that, and I remember back in the car. Q. And he was going up and down on her there; what did you think of that kind of carrying on, anyhow? A. Well, I just thought it wasn't very nice and wanted to go home. Q. Well, what did you think they were doing, huh; did you think they were having intercourse? A. I don't know what intercourse means. Q. Well, tell me what you think they were doing, then, if it wasn't so nice; tell me just anything you want to call it. A. They were doing something is what I would call it. Q. They were doing something? A. Yes, sir. Q. Something that wasn't nice? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, what did you think they were doing that with? A. I didn't know. Q. What did you think they were using to do something that wasn't nice? A. I guess they were using their own things. Q. Their own things, private female organ and private male organ? A. I don't know what you mean by that. Q. Oh, yes. Well, you just-they were just using their things then? A. Yes, sir. Q. His male thing and her female thing? A. I don't know what you mean by that. Q. You don't know what male and female is? A. No, sir. Q. You don't know whether you are a female or not? A. No, sir. Q. You don't? A. No, sir. Q. Well, I don't see how you ever got into the seventh grade; you don't know whether you are a female or a male; don't you see how ridiculous that is; can't you see how perfectly absurd it is? A. No, sir. Q. You can't! All right, we will see some more, then. 'I could see her naked white limbs from the barbed wire fence;' you know, you say you saw them doing something that wasn't nice there? A. Yes, sir. Q. He was down between her limbs? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you could see her naked limbs there? A. Yes, sir. Q. Well, that legs was it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Limbs; you know what limbs are? A. Yes, sir. Q. And she was laying on her back? A. Yes, sir. Q. You saw that? A. Yes, sir. Q. You remember that all right? A. Yes. sir. Q. Von Rosenberg was going-was on top, going up and down; it is just about twenty feet away? A. Yes, sir. Q. That is correct is it? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'I saw a car coming, and I said, "Come on quick!" Is that what you said? A. Yes, sir. Q. "They jumped up, got in the car, and we turned around and passed the car at the rate of fifty miles an hour and went to Cliffside. We came to town, stopped at the post office.' You remember that, of course? A. Yes, sir. Q. Buzz and Von Rosenberg went up in the St. Charles Apartments and brought out a quilt? A. Yes, sir. Q. "They got in the car and we came around to the Merchants' Café on Taylor street, and got some sandwiches.' You remember that, all right? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'We girls didn't get out of the car; we just went out there past Cliffside to the bridge across Amarillo creek; it was about 5 o'clock in the morning when we got out there.' That is all correct, isn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'Just before we got to Cliffside, Buzz wantA. Yes, sir. ed Irene to get up in the back seat with him? Q. That is correct is it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And she got back there with Buzz, and I got up in front with Von Rosenberg, and we rode that way until we got about two miles beyond Cliffside? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'And Von Rosenberg put the quilt down on the ground under a shade tree'? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the car was about twenty feet away?” A. Well, it wasn't that far. Q. Well, it was a short distance, then, was it? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'Von Rosenberg said to me, "Come out here and set down on the quilt with me."' Did he say that to you? A. No; he said, 'All of you come, and let's eat the sandwiches.' Q. Well, all right; but you went, all right? A. Yes; we all went. Q. 'Buzz and Irene stayed in the car?" A. Yes; they stayed in the car. Q. So it was just you and Von Rosenberg out there after all, wasn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'Irene laid down on her back, and Buzz got on top of her? A. I don't know. Q. And they were going up and down.' Do you remember whether they were going up and down? A. No, sir. Q. You just don't remember that? A. I didn't look. Q. You would not say that they didn't? A. No; I wouldn't say that they didn't, nor I would not say that they did, because I don't want to say. Q. Were you afraid that they were going to do something that wasn't nice? A. No, sir; I didn't think nothing about it; that was not on my mind. Q. No; well, after seeing Von Rosenberg and Irene there twice, you then didn't think about it any more? A. No, sir; I didn't think about then. Q. Well, what did you think about Von Rosenberg and Irene there? A. Well, I didn't have much think coming about then; I just thought they wasn't nice. Q. Well, it wasn't? A. No; it wasn't. isn't it? A. Yes, sir. Q. You did see that? A. Yes, sir; I saw that. Q. That is the only thing you remember seeing? A. Yes, sir; I remember seeing that. Q. They didn't put that down wrong? A. No. Q. He was pulling up his pants and buttoning them? A. No; I didn't say buttoning them; I just saw him catch his pants like that (indicating) and pull them up. Q. Oh! There was nothing to obstruct my view in seeing them? A. No; there was nothing in the way. Q. 'Nothing to obstruct my view in seeing them have the act of intercourse? A. No, sir; I don't know what intercourse means. Q. Of course, you don't know what intercourse means? A. No, sir. Q. Not even to this good minute? A. No, sir; I don't yet. Q. Well, we will say 'doing something that wasn't nice,' like you were trying to tell a while ago. I did not have intercourse with Von Rosenberg?' A. No, sir. Q. You didn't? A. No, sir. Q. You know what intercourse is now? A. Yes, sir; I know what intercourse means now. Q. Well, we will say that female organ is her thing? A. Her thing. • Q. "The reason we left was that we saw a car coming, and that car passed us. Louis Finklea and Mollie Carder passed by us.' Did they? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'I did not hide.' You didn't, i suppose? A. No, sir. Q. They passed us in a hurry,' all right; 'we stopped at a gate, and drove into a field, and then we turned around and came out of the field? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'We did not stop in the field; we came back to town. Buzz gave Irene two dollars?' A. Yes, sir. Q. He did that, did he? A. Yes, sir; he gave her two dollars. Q. All right; did he do that after he had pulled his pants up and buttoned them? A. Yes; but she asked him for it. She said, 'I want to get me a room; I am not going home.' Q. Uh, huh! 'I said, "I do not want to go to a hotel?" A. Yes, sir. Q. Of course, you didn't. "I want to go home," but Irene said she was not going home, and would not let me leave her.' 'We went to the Cobb Hotel, 201 Taylor street, Amarillo?" A. Yes, sir. Q. They left us there; we stayed there from that morning until about 4 o'clock p. m., when I called Mabel? That is your sister? A. Yes, sir. Q. You did call your sister, did you? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'And told her to come on over there, and I said that I was going home, and I went on home with Mabel. Irene said, "No, don't go home and leave me here;" and I said, "The best thing for you to do is to go home too." You did that? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'But she did not go home; we left her there, and I haven't seen her since.' Have you seen her at all to-day? A. No, sir. Q. Haven't seen her at all to-day? A. I haven't seen her at all. Q. How is that? A. I haven't seen her at all. Q. And if she is in town you don't know anything about it? A. No, sir. Q. Well, now, let's see if you understand this. You drove out past Herrings', did you? A. Yes, sir. Q. Nearly to Canyon, Texas? A. Yes, sir. Q. And then got off of the Canyon road and went west? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'And Irene said she wouldn't go home for $100,' did she? A. Yes. Q. 'Sis said, "I will tell mother that you stayed last night with Slim." Slim is Effie Rose.' That is true, is it? A. Yes, sir. Q. We went a long way; I don't know how far it was; about three miles east.' Is that about right? A. Yes, sir. Q. They stopped the car down there east somewhere, and Buzz was asleep? A. Yes, sir, Q. 'With his head in my lap and his feet were in the other part of the car.' A. Yes, sir. Q. We were on the back seat?' A. Yes, sir. Q. I believe you said all that is true? A. Yes, Q. And male organ is his; do you understand sir. it all now? A. Yes, sir. Q. All right; you did not stay out there very much longer; that is correct, is it? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'Irene and Von Rosenberg were on the front seat." You told that? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'It was then that Von Rosenberg had intercourse with Irene there on the front seat of Q. 'We drove on out west after that?' A. the car? A. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Q. Well, now, when you said that they had |