Frank, do you have any oceangoing vessels there?

Mr. CLARK. Everyone asks me why I am on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee and I tell them I have more water in my district than anyone else. I represent a district that has five rivers, all of them not with big oceangoing ships but they are all in the bargeline industry.

Good night, all.

(Whereupon, at 10:25 p.m., the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Friday, May 22, 1970, at North Lindenhurst, Long Island, N.Y.)

this year the Interior Department had not issued standards governing the installation of marine sanitation devices and, although the basic question of Federal-State conflict cannot be resolved until these Federal standards are promulgated, the Interior Department is studying the preemption problem, and we are hopeful for a clarification or some move in the near future.

I want to get these thoughts on the record, Mr. Chairman, so that there can be no confusion as to the application of the bill before us in regard to this problem which is pressing and distressing to small boatowners in this area.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. CLARK. Thank you.

Our first witness is William Gaston, vice president of the Glastron Boats, representing the Boating Industry Association.

He has not arrived yet.

Is William McLean here? Vice president, Dayton T. Brown, Inc., Testing Laboratories, Bohemia, N.Y.

Will you give your address and telephone number and name to the secretary, if you please.

Would you prefer coming over here to the table?

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM P. MCLEAN, VICE PRESIDENT, DAYTON T. BROWN, INC., TESTING LABORATORIES, BOHEMIA, N.Y., AND JOHN F. GRANT, COUNSEL, WASHINGTON, D.C.

Mr. McLEAN. I am appearing this morning with Mr. John Grant, our legal member.

I am speaking as (1) the director of Dayton T. Brown, Inc., Testing Laboratory of some 200 engineers and technicians conducting testing for Government and industry on safety and survival equipment for over 18 years. I am speaking as a member of the U.S. Merchant Marine, a graduate of one of their schools, (3) as a test engineer for U.S. Navy and British Admiralty conducting heavy weather trials in North Atlantic winter weather, (4) I am speaking as a small boatowner, and I might add as a coward because I have seen and found that the sea can be very unforgiving to unskilled people and to defective equipment.

I would like to commend this committee for pressing on for this much-needed bill, so long in coming. The military long ago recognized the need for standards and test procedures to ascertain the quality and reliability of equipment that directly affected safety and survival of personnel.

Three years ago, mainly through public pressure, the need for standards and test procedures was instituted for automobiles. I am sure you are aware of Mr. Nader's pressure. This automotive testing is monitored and controlled by another division of the Department of Transportation, the Federal Highway Administration, National Highway Safety Bureau. We are presently engaged in this work. It is hoped that this hearing today will aid the committee in reporting out an effective bill that the Congress will pass and also show the Congress, the boating industry, and the boating public the need for such legislation.

We are very pleased to have as a member of our subcommittee and the full Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries one of Babylon's native sons, Congressman Grover, who has been instrumental in bringing this congressional hearing on boating safety to Long Island, one of the great water recreation centers of our country.

As you know, most of the work of the Congress is committee work, and your Congressman, Jim Grover, has been outstanding in his work in developing the many legislative programs of our Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee. His background as a lawyer and experienced legislator have made him particularly valuable to the U.S. Congress and his background and knowledge in boating and maritime affairs have enabled him to make a great contribution to our country's maritime program, our Coast Guard, and the development of our rivers and harbors. His seniority counts an awful lot in Congress. We thank you for sending him to Washington to work with us. Jim, do you have a statement at this time?

STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES R. GROVER, JR., A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK

Mr. GROVER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for those kind words.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome you and the committee counsel and staff to my congressional district. It is a pleasure to have you here today for this hearing on what we regard as a very important piece of legislation out of our Coast Guard Subcommittee, of the Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee.

Before we hear the witnesses, Mr. Chairman, I would like to comment briefly on a related matter. As you know, H.R. 4148 was approved on April 3, 1970, and became Public Law 91-224. This law has in it an important provision concerning Federal standards of performance for marine sanitation devices which shall be designed to prevent the discharge of untreated or inadequately treated sewage into or upon the navigable waters of the United States.

I know that hundreds of boatowners in this area and perhaps thousands of boatowners in New York State are concerned about this law especially as it relates to the recently passed New York State sewage law.

I only raise this point, Mr. Chairman, to make it absolutely clear to all of the recreational boatowners and operators that the bill we are considering here today, H.R. 15041, is the boat safety bill and not a pollution bill.

When Admiral McClelland testified before the Coast Guard Subcommittee on March 23 in Washington on our bill H.R. 15041, I purposely raised this question concerning sewage treatment devices and whether there should not be something along these lines in that bill or whether there was latitude perhaps for interpretation.

The Coast Guard was quite emphatic in their answering testimony that H.R. 15041, the bill before us, is strictly a safety bill for recreational boats and that the pollution aspect of these small craft is covered only by Public Law 91-224 which was the result of H.R. 4148. With respect to the important question of when Federal preemption takes place under that law 91-224, I can report that as of May 20 of

this year the Interior Department had not issued standards governing the installation of marine sanitation devices and, although the basic question of Federal-State conflict cannot be resolved until these Federal standards are promulgated, the Interior Department is studying the preemption problem, and we are hopeful for a clarification or some move in the near future.

I want to get these thoughts on the record, Mr. Chairman, so that there can be no confusion as to the application of the bill before us in regard to this problem which is pressing and distressing to small boatowners in this area.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. CLARK. Thank you.

Our first witness is William Gaston, vice president of the Glastron Boats, representing the Boating Industry Association.

He has not arrived yet.

Is William McLean here? Vice president, Dayton T. Brown, Inc., Testing Laboratories, Bohemia, N.Y.

Will you give your address and telephone number and name to the secretary, if you please.

Would you prefer coming over here to the table?

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM P. MCLEAN, VICE PRESIDENT, DAYTON T. BROWN, INC., TESTING LABORATORIES, BOHEMIA, N.Y., AND JOHN F. GRANT, COUNSEL, WASHINGTON, D.C.

Mr. MCLEAN. I am appearing this morning with Mr. John Grant, our legal member.

I am speaking as (1) the director of Dayton T. Brown, Inc., Testing Laboratory of some 200 engineers and technicians conducting testing for Government and industry on safety and survival equipment for over 18 years. I am speaking as a member of the U.S. Merchant Marine, a graduate of one of their schools, (3) as a test engineer for U.S. Navy and British Admiralty conducting heavy weather trials in North Atlantic winter weather, (4) I am speaking as a small boatowner, and I might add as a coward because I have seen and found that the sea can be very unforgiving to unskilled people and to defective equipment.

I would like to commend this committee for pressing on for this much-needed bill, so long in coming. The military long ago recognized the need for standards and test procedures to ascertain the quality and reliability of equipment that directly affected safety and survival of personnel.

Three years ago, mainly through public pressure, the need for standards and test procedures was instituted for automobiles. I am sure you are aware of Mr. Nader's pressure. This automotive testing is monitored and controlled by another division of the Department of Transportation, the Federal Highway Administration, National Highway Safety Bureau. We are presently engaged in this work.

It is hoped that this hearing today will aid the committee in reporting out an effective bill that the Congress will pass and also show the Congress, the boating industry, and the boating public the need for such legislation.