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considerations, such matters as will redound to the interests of peace and not to the victory of one nation or another?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
Senator Knox. Do you think that is the way the settlement was made with regard to Shantung?
Mr. Davis. I think the President can better explain Shantung than myself.
Senator Knox. Yes, but I do not think that Shantung can be very satisfactorily explained through the league of nations.
Senator HARDING. I want to ask Mr. Davis a question that has a bearing only on the mind of Europe. Were there serious proposals at any time that the United States should share the burdens of the war from the beginning?
Mr. Davis. There was talk, Senator, about that, but no real serious proposals were ever made to that effect. Some one was always bobbing up with some Utopian scheme of that kind; but that was a matter that we simply never discussed, and that we refused to discuss.
Senator WilLIAMS. Mr. Davis, my friend Senator Brandegee, asked you if these people in Europe would get along some way or other even if we let them alone. Russia is getting along some way or other now, is she not?
Mr. Davis. Yes; exactly.
Senator WILLIAMS. And in reference to this crime of your having expressed an opinion of the league of nations, in addition to the suggestions you have given to the committee do you not think it is an additional justification that any man has a right to form an opinion upon any public or international question ?
Mr. Davis. Well, that is a question.
Mr. Davis. I have been in Europe practically—well, I went over first last July. I went first to Spain to negotiate a credit in Spain for our Government, and then I went back to Paris and was there a while--had to arrange some matters with the French treasury—and then I spent about seven weeks in London arranging other matters with the British treasury, and then I went back to Spain for a week and a half, and went back the latter part of November.
The CHAIRMAN. You stated that the league was very useful for the purpose of fixing boundaries. I have not had time to run through them all here, although I have been through them all, but I observe that it is always the principal allied and associated powers that fix the boundaries. Mr. Davis. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. I mean, for instance, take Austria; the frontier was fixed in the treaty between that power and the principal allied and associated powers. It is the same with regard to Czechoslovakia. It is the same for Germny, except for the Saar Basin, as I remember. Mr. Davis. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. The five principal allied and associated powers have the power in this treaty, have they not? Mr. Davis. I understand, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. You said that it was to be done by the league of nations.
Mr. Davis. I understand that those boundaries were fixed in accordance with the principles which had been enunciated
The CHAIRMAN. That is not the question. You said that they were to be fixed by the league of nations. Mr. Davis. No; I beg your pardon.
The CHAIRMAN. The treaty says that is to be done by the five allied and associated powers. Mr. Davis. I either misstated this, or you misunderstood me.
The CHAIRMAN. I understood you to say that without the leaglie of nations they would be fixed under the old plan of strategic boundaries, but that under the league of nations the boundaries could be fixed on racial and other considerations. If you will read the treaty with a little more care, I think you will find that they are fixed by the principal allied and associated powers.
Mr. Davis. I think you will find that that is what I did say, Mr Chairman, if you will read back.
Senator Moses. He certainly said they were going to be fixed on the basis of ethnographic and some racial lines.
The CHAIRMAN. The treaty does not say anything about that. It is always the principal allied and associated powers.
Senator HITCHCOCK. He did not state anything contrary to that.
The CHAIRMAN. I think he did. He never mentioned at all the five principal allied and associated powers.
Senator HITCHCOCK. He said that the league of nations contemplated
The CHAIRMAN. If we summon here a gentleman as an expert on the treaty, and if he makes an error of that sort, I think it is just as well that it should be corrected.
Senator HITCHCOCK. I am perfectly willing that it should be corrected. We have the stenographic notes, which will show what he did say.
The CHAIRMAN. If everybody at this table imagines that he said that we were not to have strategic boundaries, but that boundaries were to be fixed under the league of nations, according to some principle, it is very strange if everybody is mistaken. I heard it and everybody else heard it.
Senator WILLIAMS. He said that----
The CHAIRMAN. He said that was one of the things that the league of nations was to deal with, the settlement of boundaries.
Senator WILLIAMS. He said that under the league of nations they could be fixed in certain ways.
The CHAIRMAN. But the league of nations has nothing to do with the fixing of boundaries.
Senator Moses. Can we get back to the question ?
The CHAIRMAX. I want to see that right from the stenographer's notes.
Senator Moses. Coming to the lines that have already been fixed or are in process of fixation, I want to ask if the northern boundary of Italy has not been fixed upon strategic lines; I want to ask if the boundary line which is run near or through the lake of Ochrida has been fixed on racial lines; I want to ask if the boundaries of Silesia, Bessarabia, the Dobruja, the Banat, of Northern Epirus, of Albania, of Thrace, are being fixed on a racial basis? As to any one of these, I would like to have the witness answer yes or no-whether or not they are being fixed on a racial basis.
Mr. Davis. In the first place, I did not say that any boundaries had been fixed on a racial basis. I said that by the utilization of the league of nations it made it possible to eliminate the old system of fixing boundaries from a strategical standpoint, and it made it possible to arrar ge them in accordance with the nationalities. Of course, the league of nations can not arrange any boundaries now, because it is not yet in existence.
The CHAIRMAX. But how can it do it when the boundaries are all left to the principal allied and associated powers? You are saying over again just what you said before.
Senator ŽARDING. Mr. Chairman, I think I can clear this. This is what I think the witness wants us to understand, that it was possible to fix these lines as they are fixed because the league of nations, if adopted, steps in and maintains -------
Senator WILLIAMS. Defends.
The CHAIRMAN. It may be that the league will maintain them after they have been fixed by somebody else, but the witness did not say that.
Senator JOHNSON of California. Is that your view? I just simply want to get whether that is Mr. Davis's view. Is that your view ?
Mr. Davis. My view is that it does make it possible to carry that out, and if mistakes are made in these boundaries now, that the league of nations can later on recognize that.
Senator Moses. Is not the league to protect and preserve the integrity of the territories ?
Mr. Davis. I was trying to explain to you my personal opinion. That was where we got started off on some of this. I do not pretend to be an expert on the league of nations or on the question of nationalities or boundaries, but I think that if the league of nations should afterwards decide that it was advisable to modify a boundary and then that boundary were modified, that would not be an act of war.
Senator Moses. But it would not be preserving territorial integrity ?
Mr. Davis. Yes; and I can conceive of their modifying some bondaries that have been made wrong.
Senator Knox. Suppose a nation did not want the boundary changed?
Mr. Davis. If it was a party to the league of nations, would it not have to abide by it?
Senator Knox. Your idea is that the league of nations will recast boundaries of nations ?
Mr. Davis. I do not think it can recast the boundaries of nations; no.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Did you not say that it there was a mistake in establishing boundaries the league of nations can hereafter correct it?
Mr. Davis. I think that is a matter that can be brought before the league of nations, if there has been a mistake, and if there has been a mistake probably all parties concerned will agree to a rectification; and that this is one means by which you can draw them together for that purpose.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Do you not know that article 10 binds the members of the league of nations to maintain the territorial integrity of the States as established ?
Senator HITCHCOCK. No; it does not.
Senator BRANDEGEE. At this point I will ask that article 10 be inserted in this record.
The CHAIRMAN. Let article 10 be printed at this point. (The article referred to is here printed in full as follows:) Art. 10. The members of the league undertake to respect and preserve as against external aggression the territorial integrity and existing political independence of all members of the league. In case of any such aggression or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression the council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.
The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Davis, I want to ask you a question on boundaries. I read as follows from article 88, on page 125 of the committee print of the treaty, as follows:
In the portion of Upper Silesia included within the boundaries described below, the inhabitants will be called upon to indicate by a vote whether they wish to be attached to Germany or to Poland: Starting from the northern point of the salient of the old province of Austrian Silesia situated about 8 kilometers east of Neustadt, the former frontier between Germany and Austria to its junction with the boundary between the Kreise of Leobschutz and Ratibor; thence in a northerly direction to a point about 2 kilometers southeast of Katscher; the boundary between the kreise of Leobschutz and Ratibor.
There is a whole page laying out a boundary just as if it was a boundary laid out in a deed of real estate.
Mr. Davis. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Of course, it is an agreement in the treaty with Germany.
Mr. Davis. Yes, but
The CHAIRMAN. One minute. Is it not an agreement in the treaty with Germany? Are not all the boundaries in this treaty agreed to by the signers ?
Mr. Davis. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Has the league the power to change those boundaries after this treaty has been agreed to ?
Mr. Davis. If the parties concerned would agree to a change, I think so.
The CHAIRMAN. I am very glad to find that there is something in the league of nations that I did not think was there.
Senator HARDING. You do think, then, that the league becomes a supergovernment?
Mr. Davis. No; I would prefer not to express my opinion as to the actual league itself, because I had nothing to do with the formation of the league, and there are others who know more about it than I do.
Senator Knox. Can you recommend to us a first-class expert on the league, that we can call ? Mr. Davis. I should think, the President.
Senator Knox. We tried him once, at a dinner, and we did not get the information.
Senator PITTMAN. But you did not try him when he offered to come before this committee.
ị The CHAIRMAN. He did not offer to come before the committee. He sent a telephone message that he would be glad to see the committee at the White House if they wanted to come. · Senator PITTMAN. In his message he said that he would be glad to give the committee any information.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes; and we have asked for information after information, one paper after another, and have not received one.
Senator PITTMAN. In his message he offered to come before the committee.
Senator BRANDEGEE. He can come, any time he wants to.
Senator PITTMAN. The question was undoubtedly considered by the chairman and others, and they never saw fit to invite him.
The CHAIRMAN. I do not think that a committee of Congress has any right to summon the President of the United States. Senator HITCHCOCK. We are not called here to debate all that.
The CHAIRMAN. No; but it was brought in, and we might as well have it. * Senator SWANSON. I understood that as a financial expert, having been in Europe a year, you are satisfied that the financial condition of Europe would be improved by a prompt ratification of this treaty ?
Mr. Davis. Yes, sir.
Senator Moses. As a financial expert, and having been in America since you came over with the President, are you of the opinion that there are any conditions in this country which require all of our attention at the present minute ?
Mr. Davis. Yes; but I also am of opinion that the conditions in other parts of the world affect the conditions in the United States, and that the solution of some of our problems may be made by a solution of some of the problems in other parts of the world. You can not be prosperous in one part of the world unless another large portion of the world is prosperous.
Senator MosES. And if we send much more food to Europe we will reduce the high cost of living here?
Mr. Davis. I think that the sending of food to Europe will not necessarily increase the cost of living here, and I think it can be handled in such a way that it will not.
Senator Moses. There is a law of supply and demand.
Mr. Davis. That is true; but the law of supply and demand has been rather upset during the war, and we have not got back to entirely normal conditions.
Senator Moses. True; but if we materially reduce our supply here, we necessarily increase prices, regardless of anything else.
Mr. Davis. But what we ship is a surplus that we do not need in this country. We are not going to ship something that we need; but if we have got sufficient to supply our own requirements and still have left a surplus for Europe, there is no reason why the supply and demand in our country should not reduce the prices.
Senator Fall, Mr. Davis, how about the protection of racial and religious minorities in these new countries in Europe? Who is going to extend that ptotection ? Mr. Davis. That I could not tell, Senator.
Senator Fall. You know that the treaty for the protection of racial and religious minorities is not to be made with the league or