under the league of nations' domination, but it will be made with the five principal allied and associated powers, however, do you not? Mr. DAVIS. I am not thoroughly conversant with that.

Senator FALL. Well, that is a fact, Do you know Mr. Arthur Henderson or not?

Mr. DAVIS. No: I do not.

Senator FALL. You know who he is?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator FALL. Is he in favor of this league and the treaty as it stands?

Mr. DAVIS. I am not sure of that.

Senator FALL. He is the leader of the labor party, is he not, in Great Britain?

Mr. DAVIS. He is one of the leaders; but he lost his leadership when he went into Parliament, did he not?

Senator FALL. He got out of the Cabinet because he did not like the way Lloyd-George is running things.

Mr. DAVIS. That is a peculiar thing in England; as soon as a labor leader gets into the Cabinet he ceases to be a labor leader.

Senator FALL. Do you know Mr. McDonald?

Mr. DAVIS. I know who he is.

Senator FALL. Is he in favor of the league of nations?

Mr. DAVIS. I can not tell you that.

Senator FALL. He has just expressed himself about it, as has also Mr. Arthur Henderson, at the Amsterdam meeting.

Mr. DAVIS. I did not read that; just the headlines. i did not read that speech.

Senator FALL. Do you know whether the labor party of Great Britain favors the league of nations and this peace treaty as it stands? Mr. DAVIS. Just before I left Paris the labor party expressed approval, at a conference in England, of the league of nations.

Senator FALL. Are you sure of that, now, or was it an approval of the labor provisions in the league of nations?

Mr. DAVIS. No; should not care to contradict you on that, but am positive in the opinion that they did officially approve of a league of nations.

Senator FALL. I am making no assertion, so that any answer that you make can not be a contradiction. I am simply asking for information, in good faith.

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator FALL. Do you know whether the French socialist party is in favor of the league of nations?

Senator WILLIAMS. Everybody knows they are opposed to it. Senator FALL. They represent a very large portion of the people of France.

Senator WILLIAMS. A very small minority.

Mr. DAVIS. If they represented the majority. I should think they would be in control of the Government.

Senator FALL. They have been, and if I know anything about the conditions in France they will be, in a few days. However, that is simply a guess of mine.

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator FALL. Do you know whether Hungary is in favor of this treaty and the league of nations?

Mr. DAVIS. It is hard to tell now what Hungary wants.
Senator FALL. You know that Germany is not, do you not?

Mr. DAVIS. No; I do not. I think Germany is in favor of the league of nations, and that they are very anxious for it.

Senator FALL. And that they are in favor of this treaty as it is drawn?

Mr. DAVIS. Well, now, I would not say.

Senator WILLIAMS. No.

Senator FALL. Do you know whether Turkey is in favor of the league of nations and the treaty?

Mr. DAVIS. Of course, in writing the treaty it was not the purpose to try to write something that would entirely suit the enemy.

Senator FALL. I understand that. That is exactly my idea. But you have made the assertion here that from your knowledge, spending your time in Europe and meeting these people in France-and that you are not confined to France but that you have been in Great Britain and other foreign countries-the great mass of the people the majority of the people, of Europe, are in favor of this treaty. Mr. DAVIS. Yes; that is true.

Senator FALL. I am just asking you the usual questions which would be asked, to see whether your information is correct, so that we can make up our minds.

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator FALL. Do you know whether the people of Little Russia and the Ukraine are in favor of the league of nations and of the treaty?

Mr. DAVIS. As I have just said, it is rather difficult to get accurate information as to Russia.

Senator FALL. Do you know whether the Italian socialists are in favor of it?

Mr. DAVIS. The Socialist Party in Italy probably is not, but I think the majority of the people are.

Senator FALL. Do you know whether the Norwegian Governmentthe people of Norway-are in favor of it?

Mr. DAVIS. I have talked to several representative Norwegians10 or 15 of them from Norway-and they told me that they were; that the people were.

Senator FALL. Could you give me the names of any of those people? I would like to have the opportunity to get any of them that are on this side.

Mr. DAVIS. I do not recollect the names of any of them now. One of them was the head of the State Bank and another was one of the principal shipping men.

Senator FALL. How about the people of Sweden?

Mr. DAVIS. The people of Sweden feel the same way there, I am told. The head of their State Bank there told me so. You see, the neutrals all sent delegations and committees to Paris to take up questions with us.

Senator FALL. They have not expressed their desire yet to join the league?

Mr. DAVIS. The Government, officially, has not.

Senator FALL. They have been invited. Have they indicated their intention of joining?

Mr. DAVIS. I do not know.

Senator FALL. Neither Norway nor Sweden?

Mr. DAVIS. That I can not say.

Senator FALL. The Socialist Party is very strong in those two countries?

Mr. DAVIS. They are not a majority.
Senator FALL. They are not?

Mr. DAVIS. I understand they are not.

Senator FALL. Do you know what the Norwegian Parliament is? Mr. DAVIS. No; I do not.

Senator FALL. Do you know who controls it?

Mr. DAVIS. No; I do not.

Senator FALL. Do you know whether Denmark is in favor of this treaty or not?

Senator WILLIAMS. In favor of what, the league or the treaty? Senator FALL. Both.

Mr. DAVIS. No; I do not. I talked several times with the head of the State Bank of Denmark, who told me that Denmark was very much in favor of the league of nations, and that while they thought the treaty was rather hard on Germany, they thought that, all in all, it was satisfactory.

Senator FALL. As a matter of fact, Denmark repudiated that portion of the treaty in relation to the territory which was to be turned over by Germany to Denmark, did she not?

Mr. DAVIS. It was because they did not get it just the way they wanted it.

Senator FALL. Yes; because they got more than they wanted? Mr. DAVIS. I say because they did not get it just as they wanted it, and they did not want to have any trouble with Germany.

Senator KNOX. I notice these people you speak of all seem to be at the heads of banks.

Mr. DAVIS. Yes; they were from neutral countries.

Senator KNOX. Kuhn, Loeb & Co., and J. P. Morgan & Co. are in favor of it too, are they not?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator HITCHCOCK. You speak about the State banks of Denmark and Norway?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator HITCHCOCK. That is a bank that corresponds to our Federal reserve?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Senator HITCHCOCK. A Government institution?

Mr. DAVIS. A Government institution.

Senator FALL. How about the people and the Government of Holland as to this league and treaty-are they in favor of it?

Mr. DAVIS. I do not know.

Senator FALL. They have been invited to join, have they not?
Mr. DAVIS. Yes; I believe they have.

Senator FALL. Have they indicated any intention to do so?
Mr. DAVIS. I do not know.

Senator HITCHCOCK. They are supposed to have a vote on it in Switzerland, are they not?

Mr. DAVIS. I think so, but I am not positive. Mr. Chairman, I did not say that I knew the opinion of Europe. I said that I had had considerable opportunity of gauging the opinion of Europe, and

that I had come to a definite opinion as to what it was.

say

I did not

Senator BRANDEGEE. You said your information was obtained, among other ways, from reports coming from Mr. Hoover's agents? Mr. DAVIS. Among others.

Senator BRANDEGEE. And those whose opinions you have given were bankers whom you have met around and who have told you they were in favor of it. How could they have known what the opinion of all their nations was?

Mr. DAVIS. Bankers usually endeavor to gauge the opinion of people in their countries.

Senator BRANDEGEE. You are a banker. Would you be able to state authoritatively that a majority of the people of America are in favor of it?

Mr. DAVIS. I would not hesitate to say that in my opinion the majority of all the people of the United States were in favor of it, but I have not been in America now for some time.

Senator BRANDEGEE. The President does not hesitate to say so, either, but a good many of us doubt it.

Mr. DAVIS. Yes; it is difficult to get people to agree.

Senator BRANDEGEE. My opinion is that the poeple ought to have a right to express their opinion and not have it reported by a lot of bankers.

Senator WILLIAMS. I would like to see a referendum. I would like to see that taken.

Senator HITCHCOCK. A number of these banking institutions that you refer to are Government banks?

Mr. DAVIS. They are Government banks.

Senator HITCHCOCK. Similar to our Federal reserve banks, or possibly to our Treasury?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes; absolutely. But I was not confined to bankers. I saw more of those.

Senator HITCHCOCK. You mentioned those particularly because you are a financial expert and you were coming in contact with the representatives of financial institutions?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. If there is no further business, the committee will stand adjourned until to-morrow at half past 10, when the Secretary of State will be here.

(Thereupon, at 12.30 o'clock p. m. the committee adjourned until to-morrow, Wednesday, August 6, 1919, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.)