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Secretary LANSING. No, sir.

Senator HARDING. Mr. Secretary, Rumania wanted to make some reservations in the treaty, did she not?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.
Senator HARDING. Do you know what they were ?
Secretary LANSING. They related to minority representation.

Senator FALL. Mr. Secretary, in so far as enemy countries are concerned we have only negotiated a treaty with Germany. That is, in so far as any conclusion of negotiations is concerned. Is that correct?

Secretary LANSING. That is correct.

Senator Fall. With what other countries are there now pending peace-treaty negotiations?

Secretary LANSING. Peace treaties with Austria, Bulgaria, and Turkey are being considered. The negotiations with Austria are practically finished.

Senator FALL. They are in process of negotiation and more or less completed ?

Secretary LANSING. Yes; and I assume—though it would be an assumption on my part—that a Hungarian treaty is also being prepared.

Senator FALL. I was going to ask about that. Hungary when we entered the war having been an integral portion of the Austrian Empire and having since been separated, and we recognizing and demanding the separation

Secretary LANSING. It was a federated monarchial State composed of two distinct sovereignties united under one ruler.

Senator Fall. I said “the Austrian Empire,” not Austria; that it was an integral portion of the Austrian Empire, which was composed of Austria and Hungary.

Secretary LANSING. “Austro-Hungarian" is the title.

Senator Fall. Then I hope the record may be corrected so that where I said the “Austrian Empire" it will appear that it should have been the “Austro-Hungarian Empire," of which Hungary was an integral portion.

The CHAIRMAN. It is understood that that correction will be made.

Senator Fall. Mr. Secretary, there is a provision here for a future treaty with Czechoslovakia with the principal allied and associated powers—that is, the five great powers—is there not?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator Fall. Although it is placed in the German treaty here, it is a treaty to be made with Czechoslovakia. They are to enter into a treaty with the principal allied and associated powers, by which they are to agree to guarantee racial and religious protection within their boundaries whenever they have any boundaries. That is correct, is it not?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.
Senator Fall. Sometime within two years ?
Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator FALL. There is a similar provision with reference to a treaty with Poland ?

Secretary LANSING. We have that.
Senator FALL. We have that and it is before this body now.

The CHAIRMAN. It has never been sent in. I have had printed in the record an English copy of it.

Senator Fall. I was assuming that it had been brought in before us as officially as any of the others.

The CHAIRMAN. It was laid before the House of Commons and the Chamber of Deputies, but it has never been laid before us officially.

Senator FALL. Very well. You say you have not had your attention called to it; but suppose it is true, as announced, that Roumania has declined to enter into any proposed treaty to guarantee racial or religious minorities. Would that have any effect upon the treaty for the same purpose mentioned in the treaty that is pending before us?

Secretary LANSING. I do not think so.
Senator Fall. You think not?
Secretary LANSING. I think not.

Senator Fall. Suppose that Roumania declined to enter the league of nations. Would that have any effect upon the league at all ?

Secretary LANSING. She has already signed this treaty.
Senator Fall. She has already broken it, has she not?
Secretary LANSING. No.

Senator Fall. If she signed it, and she is continuing at war, continuing to fight the commands of the high commissioners who are there now, and if she has invaded Hungary and has committed acts of war on various portions of the earth's surface, do you say there is no violation of any treaty agreements ?

Secretary LANSING. No; because it has not been ratified.

Senator Fall. Is it not a fact that as between governments themselves a treaty becomes operative when it is signed or negotiated ?

Secretary LANSING. No, sir.
Senator Fall. It is not?
Secretary LANSING. No, sir.
Senator Fall. Has not our Supreme Court so held ?
Secretary LANSING. No, sir.

Senator Fall. Do you remember the Swiss case, decided by the Supreme Court of the United States several years ago, in which a treaty between Switzerland and the United States was negotiated and signed, but not ratified for something like 10 years? A question came up involving private property rights, and the Supreme Court of the United States held that as between Governments the treaty was in force from the date of the negotiations, but that as to citizens it was not in effect and would not take effect until it was ratified.

Secretary LANSING. I have no such recollection.

Senator Fall. Well, sir, I will take pleasure in furnishing you with that decision, as well as with some other opinions upon the same subject.

Secretary LANSING. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions to be asked of the Secretary?

Senator Moses. Has the State Department received any recent information from the legation at Brussels with reference to the proceedings in the Belgian Parliament in connection with the treaty?

Secretary LANSING. I have heard nothing except what I have seen in the papers. We have had no reports on it at all.

Senator Moses. The legation has not reported ?
Secretary LANSING. No.

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The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions to be asked of the Secretary? Some members of the committee would like to ask some questions of Mr. David Hunter Miller, who is in the State Department, and we should be glad to have him here to-morrow at half past 10.

Secretary LANSING. Very well, sir. There is one other thing I want to make entirely clear, that I fulfill my promises. I was asked to produce the resolution that I suggested to be introduced in regard to the league of nations. It is very brief, and with your permission I will read it.

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly, we should be very glad to have you read it into the record.

Secretary LANSING. It was under date of January 22, 1919, and is as follows:



Resolved, That the conference make the following declarations:

That the preservations of international peace is the standing policy of civilization and to that end a league of nations should be organized to prevent international wars;

That it is a fundamental principle of peace that all nations are equally entitled to the undisturbed possession of their respective territories, to the fulí exercise of their respective sovereignties, and to the use of the high seas as the common property of all peoples; and

That it is the duty of all nations to engage by mutual covenant-
(1) To safeguard from invasion the sovereign rights of one another;

(2) To submit to arbitration all justiciable disputes which fail of settlement by diplomatic arrangement;

(3) To submit to investigation by the league of nations all nonjusticiable disputes which fail of settlement by diplomatic arrangement;

(4) To abide by an award of an arbitral tribunal and to respect a report of the league of nations after investigation.

That the nations should agree upon-
(1) A plan for general reduction of armaments on land and sea;

(2) A plan for the restriction of enforced military service and the governmental regulation and control of the manufacture and sale of munitions of war;

(3) Full publicity of all treaties and international agreements;

(4) The equal application to all other nations of commercial and trade regulations and restrictions imposed by any nation;

(5) The proper regulation and control of new states pending complete independence and sovereignty. JANUARY 22, 1919.

Senator WILLIAMS. That was your suggestion to the American delegates, to be suggested by them to the conference ?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. I will say that I have here, just received from the President, a printed copy of the American draft, and also a printed copy of the first covenant reported, which has, of course, been widely printed in this country.

Senator WILLIAMS. Suppose you print it in this hearing.

Senator LODGE. I am going to have it printed separately as a document.

Senator WILLIAMS. I suggest that you also put it into this record. Senator LODGE. I can see no objection to that.

Senator Moses. Mr. Secretary, with reference to that resolution which you read, everything which you have to say further about it is contained on page 144 of your testimony, in which you say that it was laid before the commission. Senator Brandegee asked you what was done with that by our commission, to which you replied that you did not know. Senator Brandegee said, “It was not favorably considered, was it? Of course it was not adopted.” And you replied, “No; there was no action taken."

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions ?

Secretary LANSING. I was also asked to submit the report of the Commission on the Responsibility of the Authors of the War and on Enforcement of Penalties, which contained the reservations-

The CHAIRMAN. Those are the sections relating to the Kaiser ?

Secretary LANSING. Yes; the trial of the Kaiser. I do not know whether you want that inserted in the record.

Senator MOSES. I think it should be.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be inserted as a part of the Secretary's testimony.

Senator McCUMBER. Your view on that subject is in the document?

Secretary LANSING. Is in the signed memorandum that is annexed to the report.

(The document referred to is printed following to-day's hearing.)

Senator FALL. Is there a statement in this memorandum as to whether the trial of the Kaiser will be judicial in its nature or not?

Secretary LANSING. You will have to determine that from the terms of the treaty. I do not undertsand that it is of a judicial nature at all, but it is rather a tribunal that is established as a political instrument.

Senator FALL. Mr. Clemenceau so stated in his answer to Brockdorff-Rantzau, did he not?

Secretary LANSING. I do not recall.

Senator Fall. Mr. Clemenceau stated in his answer to Brockdorff-Rantzau that the trial would not be judicial in its nature, while it would follow judicial forms.

Senator WILLIAMS. Yes; as I understand it, it is a political case, but that in investigating it they will pursue judicial.methods.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything else you care to have printed ? We will be very glad to put it in the record if there is anything.

Secretary LANSING. I think there is nothing to add.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand Mr. Miller had something to do with the drafting of the league of nations provision, and we will be very glad to have him here to-morrow morning at 10.30. If there are no further questions, we will excuse the Secretary of State.

(Whereupon, at 12.35 p. m., the committee adjourned until Tuesday, August 12, 1919, at 10.30 a. m.)

(The documents referred to in the hearing, to be printed in connection with it, are as follows:) TO THE SENATE:

I have received the resolutions of the Senate dated July 15 and July 17 asking:

First. For a copy of any treaty purporting to have been projected between Germany and Japan, such as was referred to in the press dispatch inclosed, together with any information in regard to it which may be in possession of the State Department, or any information concerning any negotiations between Japan and Germany during the progress of the war. In reply to this resolution I have the honor to report that I know of no such negotiations. I had heard the rumors that are referred to, but was never able to satisfy myself that there was any substantial foundation for them.

Second. Requesting a copy of any letter or written protest by the members of the American Peace Commission, or any officials attached thereto, against the disposition

or adjustment which was made in reference to Shantung, and particularly a copy of a letter written by Gen. Tasker H. Bliss, member of the peace commission, on behalf of himself, Hon Robert Lansing, Secretary of State, and Hon. Henry White, members of the peace commission, protesting against the provisions of the treaty with reference to Shantung. In reply to this request let me say that Gen. Bliss did write me a letter in which he took very strong grounds against the proposed Shantung settlement, and that his objections were concurred in by the Secretary of State and Mr. Henry White. But the letter can not properly be described as a protest against the final Shantung decision, because it was written before that decision had been arrived at and in response to my request that my colleagues on the commission apprise me of their judgment in the matter. The final decision was very materially qualified by the policy which Japan undertook to pursue with regard to the return of the Shantung Peninsula in full sovereignty to China.

I would have no hesitation in sending the Senate a copy of Gen. Bliss's letter were it not for the fact that it contains references to other Governments which it was perfectly proper for Gen. Bliss to make in a confidential communication to me, but which, I am sure, Gen. Bliss would not wish to have repeated outside our personal and intimate exchange of views.

I have received no written protest from any officials connected with or attached to the American Peace Commission with regard to this matter.

I am also asked to send you any memorandum or other information with reference to an attempt of Japan or her peace delegates to intimidate the Chinese peace delegates. I am happy to say that I have no such memorandum or information.


August 8, 1919.


Washington, 8 August, 1919. MY DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: I have at last been able to go personally over the great mass of papers which remained in my hands at the close of my stay in Paris, and am disappointed to find that it is in no respect a complete file, the complete files remaining with the American commission.

You ask for all drafts or forms presented to or considered by the peace commissioners relating to the league of nations, and particularly the draft or form prepared or presented by the commissioners of the United States. There are no formal drafts in my possession, except that presented by the American commissioners, and this I take pleasure in enclosing, along with the formal report of the commission on the league of nations.

You also ask for all proceedings, arguments, and debates, including a transcript of the stenographic reports of the peace commission relating to or concerning a league of nations or the league of nations finally adopted, and all data bearing upon or used in connection with the treaty of peace with Germany now pending. No stenographic reports were taken of the debates on the league of nations, and such memoranda as were taken it was agreed should be confidential. The reason for regarding as confidential intimate exchanges of opinion with regard to many delicate matters will, of course, occur to you, and I beg to say that I am following the example of the representatives of the other Governments in making this explanation.

The various data bearing upon or used in connection with the treaty of peace with Germany are so miscellaneous and enormous in mass that it would be impossible for me so supply them without bringing from Paris the whole file of papers of the commission itself, and would include many memoranda which, it was agreed on grounds of public policy, it would be unwise to make use of outside the conference. Very sincerely, yours,


Chairman Committee on Foreign Affairs, United States Senate.

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