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Division on Attorneys' and Solicitors' Certificate Duty Bill. Langton, W.H.P. G. *Sandars, G. | Biddulph, R. M. Heathcote, Sir G. J. Laslett, William Scholefield, W. Blair, Colonel
Heathcote, Gilbert H. *Lennox, Lord H. G. Scobell, Captain G.T.+Boldero, Colonel Hervey, Lord Alfred C. G.
*Scott, Hon. F. Bonham-Carter, Jno. Howard, Hn.C.W.G. *Lewisham, Vis. *Scully, F.
+Bouverie, Hon. E. P. Howard, Rt. Hon. Liddell, H. G. Scully, V.
Boyle, Hon. Colonel Lord E. G. F. * Lindsay, Hon. Col.J. Seaham, Viscount Brand, Hon. H. Hume, J. *Locke, J. *Seymer, H. K. Bright, John
Hutt, William Lucas, F.
*Shafto, R. D. Brockman, E. D. Irton, Samuel Luce, T. Shee, W.
Brotherton, Joseph Jocelyn, Viscount Mackenzie, W.F. Shelley, Sir J. V. Brown, W.
Labouchere, Right Macgregor, James *Sibthorp, Colonel Bruce, Lord E.
Hon. H. Maguire, J. F. Smith, Wm. M. Bruce, H. A.
Langston, J. H. Malins, R. *Smyth, J. G.
Byng, Hon. G. H. C. Lawley, Hon. F.C. Mare, Chas. John *Spooner, Richard Campbell, Sir Arch.J. Lockhart, A. E. Massey, W. N. *Stafford, Augustus
Cardwell, Rt. Hon. E. Lovaine, Lord *Maunsell, T. P.
Caulseild, J. M. Lowe, Robert *Meagher, Thomas Stanhope, James B. Cavendish, G. H. Lowther, Captain H. * Miles, w.
Stanley, Lord Charteris, Hon, F. Mackie, John • Miller, T.J.
Stanley, Hon. W. O. Cheetham, John M'Gregor, John Mills, A. *Stephenson, R. Clay, Sir W.
M‘Taggart, Sir J. Michell, w.
*Strickland, Sir G. Clifford, Henry M. Marshall, W. Montgomery, H. L. *Stuart, Lord D. Clinton, Lord R. P. Matheson, Sir J. *Moody, C. A. *Sturt, H. G.
Cobden, Richard Maule, Hon. Col. L. *Morris, D. *Sullivan, M.
+ Cockburn, Sir A.J. E. Miall, E. *Mullings, J. R. Taylor, Hugh +Cocks, T. Somers Milligan, R. *Mundy, William *Thesiger, Sir F. Coffin, Walter
Mills, T. *Muntz, G. Frederick Townshend, Capt. J. Cowper, Hon. Wm. F. Milner, W. M. E. *Murphy, F. Stack Tudway, R. C. Craufurd, E. H.J. Milnes, R. M. Murrough, J.P. Turner, C
Crossley, Frank Mitchell, T. A. *Naas, Lord
*Tyler, Sir G. Currie, Raikes Molesworth, Rt, Hon. *Napier, Right Hon. Vance, J.
Dalrymple, Viscount Sir W. Joseph
Vane, Lord A.F.C.W.I Davie, Sir H. R. F. Moncreiff, James Newark, Viscount Vansittart, G. H. Denison, J. E. + Monseli, William *Newdegate, C. N. *Verner, Sir W.
Divett, Edward Montgomery,SirG.G. North, Colonel Villiers, Hon. Francis Drax, J. S. W. S. E. Mure, Colonel W. Oakes, J. H. P.
Drumlanrig, Viscount Noel, Hon. Gerard J. O'Brien, P.
*Vyse, Rich. H. R. H. Drummond, H. Norreys, Lord O'Brien, Sir Timothy *Waddington, David Dundas, G.
Olivera, B. *O'Connell, Maurice *Waddington, H. S. Dundas, F.
Osborne, Ralph B. *Palmer, Robert Walcott, Adm. J. E. Egerton, Sir P. Ossulston, Lord Parker, R. T.
*Walmsley, Sir J. Elliot, Hon J. E. Otway, A. J. Peacocke, G. M. W. *West, F. R.
Elmley, Viscount Paget, Lord Alfred H. *Peel, Colonel J. *Whiteside, James Emlyn, Viscount Paget, Lord G. A. F. Pellatt, A.
Whitmore, Henry Fitzgerald, W. R. S. Palmerston, Viscount Percy, Hon. J. W. *Williams, William Fitzroy, Hon. Henry Patten, J. W. Phinn, Thomas *Willoughby, SirH.P. Gardner, Richard Peel, F. *Pilkington, James Wise, 1. A. Gibson, Rt. Hn.T.M. +Peto, S. M. Potter, R.
Wyndham, Gen. H. Gladstone, Rt. Hon. Phillimore, J. G. Price, W. P. Wynn, Herbert W.W. William E.
Phillimore, R. J. *Prime, R.
Wynne, W. W. E. Gladstone, Capt. J.N. Pollard-Urquhart. W. *Pugh, D.
*Yorke, Hon. E. T. Glyn, George Carr Ponsonby, Hon. A. *Repton, G. W. J.
Goodman, Sir G.
G.J. Robertson, P. F.
TELLERS. Gordon, Hon. W. Portal, Melville Rolt, P.
Goulburn, Rt. Hn. H. Ricardo, J. L. Russell, F. W. *Grosvenor, Lord R. Gower, Hon. E. F. L. Robartes, T.J. A. Sadleir, James *Cowan, Charles Graham, Rt.Hn.Sir J. Russell, Lord J.
Greaves, Edward Russell, F. C. H. The names marked thus * voted previously Gregson, Samuel Sawle, C. B. G. for the Bill. The rest are new Members or Grenfell, c. W. Scrope, G. P.; voted now for the first time.
Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir G. Seymour, Lord MINORITY-NOES, 167.
Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Seymour, H. D. Acland, Sir T. D. Baring, Rt. Hon. Sir
Shelburne, Earl of A'Court, C.H. W. F. T.
Hanmer, Sir J. Smith, John Abel Adair, H. E. Bass, M.T.
Harcourt, G. G.V. Smith, M. Tucker Anderson, Sir James Beaumont, W. B.
Harcourt, Col. F. V. Sinith, Rt. Hon. R.V. Baines, Rt. Hon.M.T. Berkeley, C. L. G.
Hastie Archibald Smollett, A. +Baring, H. B. Bethell, Richard
Headlam, Thomas E. +Sotheron, T. H. S.
Division an Attorneys' and Solicitors' Certificate Duty Bill.
401 Stansfield, W. R. C. Whatman, James Hughes, W. B. Pechell, Sir G. R. Stapleton, J.
Whitbread, Samuel Keogh, William Pennant, Hn. E. G. D. Strutt, Rt. Hon. Edw. Wickham, H. W Lawless, Hon. C. J. Pigott, Francis Tancred, Henry W. Wilkinson, W. A. Layard, A. H.
Ricardo, O. Thicknesse, R. A. Wilson, J.
Leslie, C. P.
Sheridan, R. B.
Somerset, E. A.
Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir C. Lowther, Hon. H. C. Thompson, William Tufnel, Rt. Hon. H. Wyndham, William Lytton, Sir E. B. Trollope, Rt.Hn, Sir J. Vane, Lord H. G. Wyvill, M.
Tynte, C. J. K. Vernon, G. E. H. Young, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Manners, Lord J.J.R. Vyvyan, Sir R. R., Bt. Villiers, Hon. C. P.
March, Earl of Walpole, Rt. Hn.S. H. +Wall, C. B.
TELLERS. Maxwell, Hon. J. P. Welby, Sir G. E.
Westhead, J, P. B. Wellesley, Lord C. Mulgrave, Earl Neeld, Joseph
Whalley, G. H. The 35 Members holding office, who voted
Norreys, Sir C. Williams, T. P.
O'Flaherty, A. against the Bill, are printed in italics.
Worcester, Marquis of The 9 Members marked thus f voted for or
Packe, C.'W. Wortley, Right Hon. paired in favour of the Bill in the last Parlia
Pakington, Rt. Hon. J. A. S.
Sir J. S. ment.
Wrightson, W. B.
MEMBERS WHO PAIRED OFF.
Who voted or paired against the Bill on Bentinck, G. W. P. Bruce, C. L. C.
former occasions. Brown, H. Coote, Sir C. H., Bart. |
No. 39. Deedes, W.
Ellice, Right Hon. E. Anson, Hon. G. Inglis, Sir R. H. Farnham, E. B. Ferguson, Robert Baillie, H.J.
Jermyn, Rt. Hon. Earl Heneage, G. F. Hume, W. W.F. Beckett, W.
Legh, G. C. Hildyard, R. C.
Hutchins, E. J. Berkeley, M. F. Lemon, Sir C. Jackson, W.
Johnstone, Sir J.V.B. Burke, Sir T. J. Lewis, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingscote, R. N. F. Macaulay, Rt. Hn.T.B. Cavendish, Hon.C.C. T. F. Knox, Hon. W. S. Mangles, R. D. Christy, s.
Matheson, A. Lascelles, Hon. E. Moffat, G.
Clive, Hon. R. H. Mostyn, Hon.E.M. L. Lennox,Lord A.F.C.G. Paget, Lord G. A. F. Colvile, C. R.
Owen, Sir John Maddock, Sir T. H. Portman, Hn.W.H.B. I Corbally, M. E. Pendarves, E. W. W. Martin, Jobn Smith, J. B.
Corry, Rt. Hon.H.T.L. Pinney, W.
Crowder, R. B. Powlett, Lord W.J. F.
Ferguson, Sir R. A. Roche, E. B.
Foley, J. H. H. Rumbold, C, E.
| Forester, Rt. Hon. G. Stuart, H.
Sutton, J. H. M.
Vivian, J. H. Aglionby, H. A. Dodd, George
Herbert, Rt. Hon. S. Willcox, B. M.
East, Sir J. B.
MEMBERS WHO HAVE NOT VOTED
On any of the Divisions.
Arbuthnott, Hon. H. Dashwood, Sir G. H.
Dent, J. D. Bennet, P., jud. Geach, C.
Devereux, J. T. Berkeley, F. H. F. Gilpin, R. T.
Baring, Hon. F. Dod, J. W. Booth, Sir R. G. Goddard, A. L. Baring, T.
Duncombe, Hon.W.E. Brady, J. Gore, W.0. Barnes, T.
Dunne, M. Brisco, M.
Granby, Marquis of Bentinck, Lord H. Ellice, E., jun.
Berkeley, Sir G. H. F. Esmonde, J.
Fitzgerald, Sir J. F.
Fitz-William, Hon. C. Compton, H. C. Higgins, G. G. O. Browne, V. A.
W. W. Conolly, Thomas Hill, Lord A. E. Burghley, Lord Fitz-William, Hon. G. Cotton, Hon. W. H. S. Hindley, C.
Burroughes, H. N. W. Denison, E. B. Hope, Sir J., Bart. Chambers, M.
Forster, C. Disraeli, Rt. Hon. B. Hudson, G.
Chandos, Marquess of Franklyn, G. W.
402 Division on Certificate Duty Bill.- Registration of Assurances' Bill. George, J.
Monck, Viscount REGISTRATION OF ASSURANCES Graham, Lord M. W. Moore, R. S.
Morgan, C. R.
HEADS OF LORD ST. LEONARDS' SPEECH. Hawkin's, W. W. Newport, Viscount
-REASONS AGAINST THE BILL. Hayes, Sir E. S., Bart. O'Brien, C. Heard, J.J. Pakenham, E. W.
As already observed (ante, p. 369), the Heathcoat, John Peel, Sir R.
masterly speech of Lord St. Leonards upon Heneage, G. H. W. Phillips, J. H. the second reading of the Lord Chancellor's Henchy, D. O'C. Powell, W. E. Bill, owing to accidental circumstances, was Herbert, Sir Thomas Power, N. M. not fully reported, and it is feared may be Herries, Rt. Hon. J.C. Price, Sir R.
considered to some extent as lost to the Johnstone, James Roebuck, J. A.
public. The numerous objections which Jones, D.
Seymour, W. D.
Lord St. Leonards urged against the mea-
sure necessarily took some time to state Kerrison, E. C. Stafford, Marquis of and explain ; but so many serious objecKirk, W. Stirling, W.
tions are not often propounded and illusKnight, F. W. Swift, R.
trated in the course of a single speech, and Knightley, R.
Talbot, C. R. M. perhaps, in modern debates, no instance Laffan, R. Taylor, T. E.
could readily be pointed out in which the Laing, S.
Tollemache, J. Lefevre, Rt. Hon.C.S. Tomline, G.
talent for compression was exercised with Lockhart, W.
The diffiTraill, G.
so much judgment and effect. Lovedon, P.
Tyrell, Sir J. T. culty of making a concise analysis of a Macartney, G. Vivian, J. E.
statement so suggestive, is considerable, M'Cann, James Vivian, H. H. but we believe the following are the main Magan, W. H. Walsh, Sir J. B. grounds stated by the noble and learned Mandeville, Viscount Warner, E.
lord for dissenting from the second reading Manners, Lord G.J. Wells, W.
of the Bill as at present framed:Masterman, John Wigram, L. T.
Because the Bill as at present framed Meux, Sir H., Bart. Woodd, B, T. Milton, Viscount Wynn, Sir W. W.
benefits no man's present title, and saves no man a shilling,
Under the Bill the present proprietors of
property will hold under two titles.
The title deeds of property are taken by
the Bill out of the control of the owners, Clitheroe
who will have to pay for seeing their own Bridgnorth
deeds. Cambridge . .
The experiment of registering titles has Hull
already been tried and failed in Yorkshire,
Middlesex, Scotland, and Ireland.
The present Bill affords no additional
security to purchasers. .
Two distinct titles of the same property may be registered under this Bill.
The Bill does not make adequate provi• SUMMARY OF THE VOTES FOR AND AGAINST sion for the identification of property" THE BILL
gistered. Members who voted this Session for leave
Maps of property would be useless, as to bring in the Bill
: 219 the face of the country is subject to conDitto, against .
. 167 stant changes. Tellers . .
| An index of names would be useless, Pairs ,
26 proprietors of the same name are so naMembers absent who previously voted for, merous. paired, or are in favour of the Bill
The Commissioners, to whom the matter Members absent who voted or paired
against the Bill on former divisions , Members who have not voted on any di
"If Lord St. Leonards could be induced to vision . . .
correct the newspaper report of his speecb, Seats vacant . .
that it may be published in a cheap form for
circulation, it would materially assist the due [3 members returned for Knaresborough] 655
consideration of the Bill, which seems even now to be ill understood.
Registration of Assurances' Bill.-Suitors in Chancery Bill.-Bankruptcy Bill. 403 was referred, decided that the Bill in its for. We would again remind those who present shape could not work.
oppose the Bill, however, that as the meaThe Bill is denounced by the solicitors, sure is now brought forward by the Lord although its immediate effect will be to in- Chancellor, as the organ of the Governcrease their emoluments.
ment, neither its intrinsic demerits, nor the The Bill will increase expense without lack of support it receives from the public, any corresponding benefit to the landed will retard its progress. It can only be deproprietors.
feated by an organised and united opposiThe Bill does not assist titles in any re- tion, which it is hoped may be prepared by spect.
the time the Bill reaches the House of The Bill does not shorten the abstracts Commons. of titles by a single word. Under the present system important
SUITORS' IN CHANCERY BILL. deeds are never suppressed. Under the proposed system a mistake in
TAXES ON JUSTICE. the name, by the registry clerk, would THE 9th section of this Bill forms a retrodestroy a title.
grade movement after the Statute of last SesDeeds may be lost by the porters in the Registry Office.
sion, 15 & 16 Vict. c. 87, s. 16, by which the The injured parties to be indemnified out |
salaries of the Lord Chancellor and other of the consolidated fund.
Equity Judges were properly transferred to the The Bill will enormously increase the consolidated fund. expense of small purchases."
| The Bill now in the Select Committee of the The Bill will produce unnecessary delays House of Lords, proposed to empower the in the completion of purchases.
Lord Chancellor, when the fees of office are reInstruments registered will refer to a duced as far as may be deemed expedient in the trust without showing what the trust is. due administration of justice, to direct that the
The real transfer will appear on the re-co gistry when the real title will not appear
salaries of the Judges may be paid out of the on it.
Suitors' Fund, and the consolidated fund so The purchaser will be deprived of the tarr
far relieved ! protection the law now affords him.
| Surely this clause must have crept into the The Bill does not simplify the law of Bill by mistake. However this may be, we property in any particular.
understand, if it should come out of the Select If the purchase is not registered a mort- Committee, it will be resisted in all its stages, gage may be enforced.
as it ought to be, in both Houses. The mortgagee, who knew the land was mortgaged, may find it has been sold.
BANKRUPTCY BILL. Clerks sent to register deeds may neglect so to do.
ATTORNEY-ADVOCATES. A vast expense will be entailed by the
The 39th section of this Bill proposes to proposed system of registration. The Bill affords great facilities for the
prohibit solicitors from employing other soliforgery of deeds.
citors as their agents in the Bankruptcy There is no certainty afforded that the Courts, and in effect to repeal the 12 & 13 deed registered is a real deed, and not a Vict. c. 106, s. 247, and the several previous forgery.
Acts, by which solicitors were expressly auThe register compels a disclosure of the thorised to “appear and plead, without emtransactions of private life.
ploying counsel,” as in fact had been the prace It discloses the date, the names of par- tice from time immemorial under the Bankties, and the effect of a conveyance.
rupt Laws. It interferes injuriously with the equit. Surely such an enactment can never pass ! able doctrine of notice. Such are the leading grounds which, in
The Judges of the Superior Courts, both of the judgment of Lord St. Leonards, justify
Law and Equity, are attended by solicitors and an opposition to the Bill, and if any con- their agents, and the recent Acts have exsiderable proportion of those objections are tended the jurisdiction at Chambers. Is it not well founded, the apprehension and disfa- monstrous that in a Court, comparatively inyour with which the measure is regarded in ferior, and essentially dealing with insolvent professional circles, are sufficiently accounted estates, the creditor, or bankrupt, should be
Chancery Suitors' Grievances.-Remuneration of Solicitors. compelled, nolens volens, to incur the expense we may fairly call unskilled labour, viz. the of briefs and fees to counsel, when their soli- copying and engrossing; and the rest for citors are fully competent from their familiar | 8
bio goods and materials supplied, and the stamp.
And your Committee propose to show presently acquaintance with commercial accounts to ad- that the charges for what they have terıned unvocate their clients' interests at a moderate skilled labour are high, out of all proportion expense? The learning and eloquence of the either to the payment for professional skill Bar are surely sufficient to secure their em
(which is of a far higher order of merit), or to
the real value of such services. In the mean. ployment, whenever needed, without statutory time, whatever branch of law is selected, wheenactments, which really will not mend the ther Common Law, Equity, or Conveyancing, matter,- for if the creditors cannot obtain pro- it will be found that an attorney's bill always fessional assistance in ordinary cases, without resolves itself into th
without resolves itself into these three heads :the costly aid of counsel, there will be a denial
“ The attorney's and his clerk's professional of justice. Not a brief more will result from
skill, time, and trouble. this suggested legislation.
“ Copying and engrossing. CHANCERY SUITORS' GRIEVANCES.
“ Money paid for fees and stamps, &c., and
“Your Committee think it cannot be doubted
that the system of charging for every separate SIR,–Pray exert your influence again in step, and, as to documents, by the length, as they calling attention to the heavy payment obliged have described it, holds out to the practitioner the to be made for a power of attorney in the Ac- strongest possible inducement to multiply steps countant-General's Office for so small a cheque in the suit or other proceeding in hand, to as 201. The stamp still remains the same draw the greatest possible number of docu(viz. 30s.). In the late table of fees issued in ments and copies in the course of such suit or October, 1852, the fee for drawing the power proceeding, and to make such documents of of attorney and affidavit was reduced from the utmost length. This, they think, is the 5s. 6d. to 3s. 6d. If this latter sum is consi- natural and obvious tendency of the system; dered sufficient for the trouble taken, does it but they proceed to consider whether such a not seem hard that so large a sum must still temptation or inducement does in fact operate be deducted in consequence of the inability of to produce such effects; in order to which the party himself to attend to receive his they must justify their assertion as to the money?
E.' C. charges for copying and engrossing.
" To estimate the value of a commodity, the REMUNERATION OF SOLICITORS. usual and certainly only fair practice is to find
out its market price. The charges allowed on We deem it expedient that our readers taxation will, of course, afford no criterion as should be fully informed of the views enter- to
to the value of copying and engrossing, inastained by the members of the Bar, or gentle
much as the same sum is charged by all alike.
There is, however, a simple method of discomen practising under the Bar, who form the vering their
orm the vering their worth when subjected to unreSpecial Committee of the Law Amendment stricted competition' (which may now be perSociety on “the relation between the Bar-haps considered the universal law),- it is by rister, the Attorney and the Client.” consulting a list of the charges of the law sta
We stated in our last Number some of tioners. And your Committee, on inquiry, the premises and conclusions of the Com
find that a respectable London law stationer mittee, and now extract some further re. would charge as follows : -For fair copies of
drafts, &c., 28. per twenty folios ; for engrossmarkable passages from their report :
ments on paper, 1 d. per folio ; ditto on parch." The items charged for by an attorney are ment, 2d. per folio; briefs and abstracts, per not like the items in a tradesman's bill, each of sheet, ls. ; skin of parchment stamped, 3s. 6d.; which consists of some useful article actually unstamped, 3s. To compare these charges supplied ; but in the attorney's bill, the several with those of the attorney, the following table items are only the component parts of the use- is given, in which the latter are selected from ful whole required. The attorney charges in Dax's New Book of Costs. (London, distinct sums for attendances, for drawing, for 1847) :copying, for parchment, for engrossing, for stamp, and for stamping; and the whole results in the one useful article required. e. o. al 1 We have been asked, what is the “ market lease. Among such charges, it will be ob- price” for signing a bill in Chancery, and served, soine are for skilled labour, viz. the have been told that a fee of half-a-croin has attendances, drawing, &c.; some are for what been accepted !-Ed.