Mrs. SHEREN. No. It is a combination of both. When I first started boating, for example, I had never even seen the ocean and because I am an educated person and value education I realized that I had to get the theory, but the theory alone is not enough. You have to go out and do it, too. I know many people who have had the experience only and have not taken the boating courses and we spend all our energies, people in the power squadron, in getting these people to come in and take the courses. They say, "I don't need the course. I have all the experience," but when they do come in to take the course they realize that there are so many things they don't know and their boating becomes more pleasurable and safer. Mr. MURPHY. Thank you very much. Mr. CLARK. Thank you very much. We really appreciate your coming up here this evening and, of course, I think your experience means a lot. I should tell you that this program will come under the State boating safety programs and, of course, we as the Federal Government will be watching the States in this regard. I think what you have just told us in this hearing this evening will be very helpful in deciding what kind of an educational program there shall be, and we do thank you. We believe you added a lot to this hearing this evening. The Federal Government will finance these boating safety programs and the Coast Guard will oversee them. Thank you very much for coming, and we do want to thank all of those who came this evening. Are there any others who would like to be heard this evening? If not, we would like to tell you that we did enjoy all of you coming and I know all of us have learned a little bit this evening from this hearing. We will take it back to Washington and when we are hearing the bill again, this bill with many others, we will then decide from hearings that we have held here in New York and another one tomorrow, one in Boston, one in Seattle, and one in St. Louis, Mo., and will, I hope, get a bill that will be beneficial to all of the boatowners and recreational people in the United States. I would like to add in closing that we have had a busy day. As you know, that is why you are here late this evening, but I would like to just add a little bit of something else in that I am happy to be in Congressman Murphy's district. The Congressman and I have been very good friends ever since he has been fortunate enough to be elected to represent such wonderful, and also fortunate, people. I don't know if you understand the principle of seniority, but if you are union people in this area, you know, or if you are any kind of teachers you know that seniority counts a lot. I say this in behalf of Congressman Murphy not because I am a Democrat but because I am a good American, and I am going to say the same thing tomorrow in a Republican district. We hope that you recognize what seniority means. We need Mr. Murphy on this committee very much. We do appreciate your coming this evening and good night. Mr. MURPHY. Frank, I would just like to add that Congressman Clark represents a district in the western part of Pennsylvania, and, as he said, we have served together for 8 years on one committee and have had a very fine relationship. It is nice to know that he is from western Pennsylvania. Frank, do you have any oceangoing vessels there? Mr. CLARK. Everyone asks me why I am on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee and I tell them I have more water in my district than anyone else. I represent a district that has five rivers, all of them not with big oceangoing ships but they are all in the bargeline industry. Good night, all. (Whereupon, at 10:25 p.m., the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Friday, May 22, 1970, at North Lindenhurst, Long Island, N.Y.) RECREATIONAL BOAT SAFETY FRIDAY, MAY 22, 1970 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SUBCOMMITTEE ON COAST GUARD, COAST AND The subcommittee met at 10:05 a.m., pursuant to recess, in the Town Hall, North Lindenhurst, Long Island, N.Y., Hon. Frank M. Clark (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Mr. CLARK. The Coast Guard Subcommittee will now come to order. Chairman Garmatz and I introduced the bill H.R. 15041 on December 2, 1969, and it is the latest in a series of bills dealing with legislation to provide a coordinated national safety program to reduce boating accidents. There are now between eight and nine million small boats in the United States, and this number is increasing at the fantastic rate of about 4,000 a week. The statistics for 1969 indicate that there were 1,350 fatalities last year resulting from boating accidents and that there was approximately $6.37 million in property damage. We are convinced that this is a situation which requires attention. H.R. 15041 would establish safety standards applicable to boats and associated equipment and would regulate the use of safety equipment onboard boats. It would authorize the Secretary of Transportation under certain conditions to approve more comprehensive State boating safety programs and to make grants-in-aid to encourage State participation and to assist in the program development and implementation. To this end there is a recommended authorization of appropriations of $5 million a year for 5 fiscal years beginning in 1972 for a grant-inaid program. In addition, the bill would establish a Boating Safety Advisory Council. The subcommittee held hearings on this important legislation on March 23 and 24 of this year when we heard congressional and governmental witnesses. Beginning now, it is our intention over the next month or so to have hearings in various boating centers of the United States where all segments of the industry can be heard and in which individuals, through their representatives, can express their views with respect to the need for changes in the Boating Act not only to produce greater safety, but greater convenience for the recreational boat owners. This is why we are here today in North Lindenhurst, Long Island. At this time I would like to defer some of my other comments to my good friend and colleague whom I am introducing now, Congressman James Grover, Representative of the Second District. We are very pleased to have as a member of our subcommittee and the full Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries one of Babylon's native sons, Congressman Grover, who has been instrumental in bringing this congressional hearing on boating safety to Long Island, one of the great water recreation centers of our country. As you know, most of the work of the Congress is committee work, and your Congressman, Jim Grover, has been outstanding in his work in developing the many legislative programs of our Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee. His background as a lawyer and experienced legislator have made him particularly valuable to the U.S. Congress and his background and knowledge in boating and maritime affairs have enabled him to make a great contribution to our country's maritime program, our Coast Guard, and the development of our rivers and harbors. His seniority counts an awful lot in Congress. We thank you for sending him to Washington to work with us. Jim, do you have a statement at this time? STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES R. GROVER, JR., A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK Mr. GROVER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome you and the committee counsel and staff to my congressional district. It is a pleasure to have you here today for this hearing on what we regard as a very important piece of legislation out of our Coast Guard Subcommittee, of the Merchant Marine and Fisheries Committee. Before we hear the witnesses, Mr. Chairman, I would like to comment briefly on a related matter. As you know, H.R. 4148 was approved on April 3, 1970, and became Public Law 91-224. This law has in it an important provision concerning Federal standards of performance for marine sanitation devices which shall be designed to prevent the discharge of untreated or inadequately treated sewage into or upon the navigable waters of the United States. I know that hundreds of boatowners in this area and perhaps thousands of boatowners in New York State are concerned about this law especially as it relates to the recently passed New York State sewage law. I only raise this point, Mr. Chairman, to make it absolutely clear to all of the recreational boatowners and operators that the bill we are considering here today, H.R. 15041, is the boat safety bill and not a pollution bill. When Admiral McClelland testified before the Coast Guard Subcommittee on March 23 in Washington on our bill H.R. 15041, I purposely raised this question concerning sewage treatment devices and whether there should not be something along these lines in that bill or whether there was latitude perhaps for interpretation. The Coast Guard was quite emphatic in their answering testimony that H.R. 15041, the bill before us, is strictly a safety bill for recreational boats and that the pollution aspect of these small craft is covered only by Public Law 91-224 which was the result of H.R. 4148. With respect to the important question of when Federal preemption takes place under that law 91-224, I can report that as of May 20 of |