opinions alluded to as unnecessary and improper. He had, amongst other officers, been called upon for his opinion, in a letter from his Royal Highness the Commander in Chief, which was marked confidential, and to which he gave an answer, containing his opinion upon the subject, but which he had not the most distant supposition was ever to be laid before parliament. The same idea might probably influence most of the officers who gave their opinions; and who, not conceiving that their sentiments, thus confidentially given, were ever to be made public, might give their opinions in a diffuse and prolix style, or in a manner very different to that which they would have done, had they conceived that their letters were to be laid before parliament; he thought, therefore, it would be indelicate to drag forward opinions, thus privately and confidentially given, before a public assembly, and where the far greater part of the officers who had pronounced such opinions would have no opportunity of explaining their sentiments. Most of these opinions also were those of military men, and not of statesmen; they related to the effect on the interior discipline of regiments, which the measure proposed in the bill before the House might produce, rather than to those enlarged views upon the subject which must necessarily be entertained in that House. He could not, therefore, perceive any good that could be produced, by agreeing to the motion of the noble lord, whilst, at the same time, he deprecated any attempt to influence their lordships' minds by the opinions of others; above all, he protested against the idea started by the noble lord, of laying upon the table a paper from the Commander in Chief, in order to influence their lordships' opinions. However high the respect he entertained for that illustrious personage, he must protest against any motion of that description.

The Duke of Montrose contended, that the papers moved for by his noble friend ought to be produced, in order that many noble lords who had not had an opportunity of considering the question in the manner in which it had come before the late ministers, might see distinctly the grounds on which they had acted, in abandoning that measure, which was now brought forward by his Majesty's present ministers. He thought also that the opinions of the officers who had been called upon having been given in the manner in which they were to the Comman

der

der in Chief, might fairly be laid before parliament without the slightest indelicacy towards these officers.

The Earl of Suffolk said a few words in favour of enlisting for a term of years.

Lord Mulgrave thought a different interpretation ought to be put upon the word confidential to that given by the noble earl (Moira). From the letters being marked confidential, he should have conceived that it was only intended that the officers receiving them were not to mention the subject to others, or make it a matter of general conversation, but not that they were to call upon the Commander in Chief to keep their opinions secret after they had delivered them. He, as one of the officers called upon, had given an opinion favourable to enlistment for a term of years, but, at the same time, an opinion to which the measure now before the House had scarcely any similarity. He was of opinion that the reason given by the noble carl why the papers ought not to be produced was the very reason why they ought, namely, that in general they were only the opinions of military officers, and not those of statesmen. The House was too enlightened to require opinions from others as to general measures of legislation; but on a subject like the present they wanted military information, and that would be afforded by the production of these papers.

Lord Grenville conceived that the question had been much mistated by the noble lords who spoke of those military opinions as information which ought to be laid before the House. As to information, generally speaking, it meant a communication of evidence and of fact, and not merely the opinions of other men. It would be an unprecedented thing for the House to acquire argumentative opiniens of those who were not members, in order to influence their determination. It was the duty of his Majesty's ministers to collect all the information they could derive from every source, before they brought forward the measures they were to propose; and when those measures were brought forward, it was their duty to support them by their own arguments, and not by the authority of other persons, or the influence of the names of men who were not members. If such a course could be permitted on the present occasion, a similar practice might prevail on almost every other occasion, and the House would have nothing else to do but to listen to the argumentative opinions of

2.

other

other people. He conceived also, that it must be most disagreeable to the military officers themselves, to have a written opinion of theirs argued in a deliberative assembly, where they had no opportunity of explaining the principles upon which it was founded; and he thought the general officers, who had given those opinions, were too well acquainted with the constitution of the country, to suppose that their opinions had been demanded for the purpose of giving to parliament their ideas about the internal and political state of the country at the present crisis.

The motion was put and negatived.

The mutiny bill was read a second time, and committed for Friday.

The order for taking into consideration the petition of of Mr. Justice Fox was postponed till the next day se'nnight.

Lord Eldon presented a petition from William Watson, Esq. the serjeant at arms, stating the inadequacy of the emoluments attached to the office, which were unequal to the expenditure necessary in executing its duties, and praying for such relief as the House should think fit. His lordship supported the object of the petition, and was seconded by Earl Spencer. The petition was ordered to be referred to a committee on Monday.

An undefended appeal having been heard and decided upon,

Lord Eldon took the opportunity of giving notice, that he should, next session, bring forward some measure respecting costs in appeals, as at present the House could not award more than 2007. although the expences might actually amount to 7 or 8007. It then became an object with some persons to appeal to that House, merely for the purpose of gaining time, in cases where the interest of the of the money in the mean time, before the appeal could be heard, rendered the costs to be ultimately paid a matter of little consequence.

The Lord Chancellor said, it was a great abuse, and ought to be remedied. Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 11.

Sir Theophilus Metcalfe obtained leave to bring in a bill for incorporating the Globe Insurance Company.

Mr.

Mr. Robert Thornton presented a petition from the curriers and dealers in leather, of Colchester, against the flaying bill.

Mr. Douglas presented a petition from the tanners, harness-makers, and dealers in leather, of Birmingham, with the same object. Both ordered to be referred to the committee.

Mr. Alderman Combe obtained leave to bring in a bill to amend so much of an act for the improvement of the port of London, as related to the compensations to be granted in certain cases.

Mr. Vansittart moved for an account of the quantity of raw and thrown silk exported and imported to and from Great Britain, for twenty years, ending with 1806. Also for an account of the value of manufactured silk goods exported from Great Britain for the last twenty years, specifying the particular counties from which such exports were made. Also for a copy of the agreement of the commissioners of the treasury with the Duke of Grafton, under an act of the 434 of the King. And lastly, for a committee to sit the next day to consider what should be the rates of postage from this country to Malta and Gibraltar. These motions were agreed to, and the silk accounts were presented. Ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. The agreement was also presented, and ordered to be referred to a committee of the whole House the next day.

LORD MELVILLE,

A message from the Lords announced that their lordships had resolved to proceed further on the trial of Lord Melville the next day, at ten of the o'clock, in Westminsterhall, and that they had agreed to the Irish stamp-duty bill. The Speaker mentioned, that, in consequence of this message, he would take the chair the next morning at tea o'clock, and that the names of the managers and members would be called over at half past ten as usual.

The customs' fees bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed the next day.

Mr. Alexander brought up the report of the committee on the general assessed tax act. The resolution relative to the exemptions were read and agreed to, and those who were appointed to bring in the assessed tax bill were ordered to make provision accordingly.

Mr. Fox gave notice that he would the next day move

for leave to bring in a bill to prevent the carrying on of the slave trade in any ships except those that had already been engaged for that purpose for the present season.

WEST INDIA AUDITORS.

Lord Henry Petty moved for the order of the day for the House resolving itself into a committee on the West India, auditors bill.

Mr. Rose wished, that, considering the state of ignorance in which the House was on this subject, the noble lord would allow at least twenty-four hours to examine into it. With a view to induce him to do this, he entered at some length into what had been done before, for correcting the West India abuses, and into the merits of this bill. He stated, that in 1797 he himself had corresponded with the West India commissioners of the customs, respecting the abuses committed in the West Indies, and that the consequence was, that the commissary-general was superseded; that the commissioners were ordered to make inquiries into the abuses, and to report to the treasury; that the auditors had been applied to, in order to learn whether any increase of their establishment would enable them to bring up these accounts; that the auditors had answered, that this business would require sixteen additional clerks, and four additional inspectors, and that these must go through a gradual course of instruction; that the treasury had taken this answer into consideration the day on which it was given in, and the consequence of all had been, the act which by the present bill was intended to be repealed. The noble lord, he said, had come down to the House, out of breath, mentioned that monstrous abuses had been discovered, and given notice that he would, in a short time, state to the House what would astonish them, but that he would do something that would quiet their apprehensions, and the consequence was this bill. Now, a bolder attempt, merely to gain patronage, without the smallest prospect of advantage to the public, never was exhibited in this world. One great object of the noble lord appeared to be to discredit the Jate administration, and to praise himself. Commissioners had already been appointed for the professed object of this bill, and the bill did, in fact, nothing more than had been done by the former one. In order to prove this, he com. mented on the different clauses of the present bill. It ap pointed nineteen commissioners, including those which had

been