plished. But what happened in this inftance was no criterion for what ought now to be adopted as applicable to our prefent circumstances. We had not to think how a campaign was to be fupported, but how invafion, if it fhould take place, was to be immediately repelled. It would not be denied that the volunteers would, in due time, be made capable of any fpecies of fervice; but the question was, under the prefent circumstances of the empire, what was the fpecies of force mot applicable to an immediate crifis? An armed peafantry appeared to be the most efficient fpecies of force, and that was the force which he thought it his duty to recommend as particularly applicable to the dangers with which the empire was threatened. He was anxious, from a conviction that our regular army was infufficient for the defence of the country, that the whole population of the country thould be called into activity. He gave full credit to the declarations of the gallant officers, whofe teftimonies refpecting the efficiency of the volunteers had been mentioned; but at the fame time, he could not conceive it pollible to fuppofe, that the volunteer fyftem was at all to be put in competition with the general training of the country. In the one cafe, there was a certain proportion of the community very imperfectly difciplined; in the other, there was a vast mass of active population fufficient to overcome any invading force, however powerful in point of discipline, or however formidable in point of numbers. The hon. Member then went over the arguments used by Mr. Windham, which he illuftrated and confirmed. He pointedly condemned the whole conduct of Ministers so far as the military fyftem of the country was concerned, and gave it as his decided opinion, that the bill was an additional proof of the weakness and incapacity of his Majefty's prefent Go

vernment.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer wished to advert to a few points that had been taken notice of by the hon. Gentleman who had just fat down. The opinion of Lord Moira, which he had formerly stated, he had received not confidentially, but merely from the public returns of the noble Lord. The opinion of General Simcoe he had given on the fame grounds as ftated in his return for the divifion which he commanded. The teftimony of the perfons to whom he had alluded were well known, and might be regarded as very good authorities for the opinion which he bad fupported of the efficiency of the volunteers.

VOL. II. 1803-4.

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Sir

Sir James Pulteney faid, that whatever might have been his opinion about the propriety of inftituting a volunteer force in the firft inflance, yet as it had been adopted, he would now take the fyftem as he found it, and he had no heftation in faying, that upon the whole he approved of this bill. He was very far from agreeing with those who faid that a little difcipline was worfe than none; he did not fay the volunteers were perfect, but furely the difcipline they had attained must make them better foldiers than if they had none. One great branch of difcipline was the ufe of the firelock; that the volunteers had attained; the next was marching in that alfo they had made very confiderable improvement; and the third, which was perhaps of as great confequence as the others, was the acquirement of steadinefs and regularity. All these the volunteers had in a great degree attained; and he had no doubt but that with the fpirit they poffeffed, they would be eminently ufeful. It had been faid, that the volunteers ought not to be employed in line against regulars; but even if they were not, the discipline they had attained would be very far from difqualifying them for any other kind of fervice. Much had been faid about an armed peafantry of two millions of men, but it was obvious that only a given number could be brought to act against 50 or 60,000, fuppofing the French could land fo many, and therefore 100,000 armed peafantry would in that cafe be as ufeful as two millions. It had been argued that the volunteer fyftem injured the recruiting for the army, from the number of exemptions that were granted; but he could not concur in this opinion, because it was known that there were very few principals either in the militia or the army of reserve, as they were almost entirely compofed of fubstitutes.

Mr. Dickinfon difapproved of the conduct of Ministers with respect to the volunteer fyftem. However, in the prefent danger, he would confent to any propofition for augmenting the army, the militia, or the volunteers.

Mr. Rofe faid, he was a strong friend to the volunteer fyltem, because he thought it would be productive of the greatest advantage. With regard to the bill before the House, he confeffed it had difappointed him, because he expected it would have remedied many inconveniences which had been felt in the country, but which it left untouched. He was the more difappointed because from a measure that had occupied the attention of Parliament fo long, it was natural to expect that much would be done; but in fact this bill did

almoft

almost nothing. There was, indeed, but one clause in the bill which, in his opinion, could produce any good effect, and that was a claufe introduced by his right hon. Friend (Mr. Pitt). He thought this claufe of great importance, because it gave every poffible encouragement to the volunteers to go out for the purpose of exercise ; but he was forry to find that the money allowed was to be laid out in neceffaries, because he thought it would very confiderably take away the inducement that was held out to them. There was one claufe of which he entirely disapproved, and that was the clause which gave to farmers a proportion of the pay allowed to their fervants who were volunteers, as he was fure it would prevent them from going out for the purpose of being trained and exercised. Upon the whole, he expected very little from this bill; indeed he was not fure that it would not do more harm than good; however, under all the circumstances of the cafe, he should not give it any oppofition.

Mr. Curwen faid, he fhould have to trouble the House with but a few words. He entertained no doubts as to the public fpirit and feeling of the volunteers: but with respect to the degree of perfection in training and difcipline to which they, generally fpeaking, had arrived, he certainly had confiderable doubts. The right hon. Gentleman had vaunted of the state of difcipline to which corps in a particular part of the kingdom, to the number of between 2 and 3000 men, had arrived; but were all the returns of the infpecting officers to be laid before the House, a wide difference would foon be perceived, and the number of corps fit for duty, and to act with troops of the line, would, he believed, be found very inconfiderable.

General Loftus obferved, that under the prefent circumftances of the country, he felt it his daty to give the bill his beft fupport. He approved of the plan of blending the corps of volunteers with the regular army, which confifted of a given number of brigades, and placed under general officers acquainted with the fervice. 1le deprecated the idea of bringing the volunteers by themselves into action, of marching them into parts of the country to which they were totally ftrangers, or of placing general officers at the head of troops with whom they were entirely unacquainted He had made thefe obfervations not with the leaft view of throwing diculties in the way, but in the way of caution. No idea could be rationally entertained of bringing the volunteers into the field, without any body to lead them. This he applied

Ii2

to the idea of employing the volunteers fingly-if fuch were to be acted upon, experience would foon fhow its injurious effects. He next adverted to the important confideration of driving the cattle from those parts of the coaft where an enemy was likely to effect a landing. He recollected, when ferving under the present Lord Howe, in America, that the enemy uniformly took the precaution of driving the cattle froni fuch parts of the coaft as his debaikations were made; this operation threw his Majesty's forces into a diftreffing dilemma, and they were always forced to recur to their own magazines: the confequence was, that with all the fkill and ability of that celebrated officer, be was unable to penetrate further than 30 or 40 miles up the country. He was happy to understand that it was the intention of Government to take the precaution of driving the cattle from the coafts, which neceffarily muft reduce the enemy to the alternative of fubfifting upon the contents of their own magazines.

General Tarleton faid, he fhould detain the House but for a very few minutes, and his endeavours would be to correct a mis-statement which had frequently been made with regard to recruiting the army, and in which that night it had been afferted we were wonderfully fuccefsful. The fact however, he was forry to fay, was very different. In fome districts, he knew, recruits were not to be had. A great part of the statements which had been made on the contrary, were founded on the numbers who were drawn from the army of referve, who were induced by a fuperadded and exceffive premium to enter into the general fervice, and these they called recruits. There was a claufe, he obferved, in the army of referve act, allowing men of the height of five feet two, to enter as substitutes; the confequence of which was, that on a certain occafion, where upwards of 1000 men had entered from the army of referve, owing to the five feet two claufe, there could not be found one man of five feet four for the general defence of the country. Therefore if the data of these statements were taken from what was furnished by the army of referve, it was a deception upon the Houfe and the country. He then called the attention of the House to the favourable circumftances for Minifters under which the prefent war was commenced; with a Parliament confiding beyond all former example, and with the fpirit of patriotifm and loyalty univerfally diffufed throughout the country, they were furnished with men to render the force of the country completely invulnerable. But how far they

were

were from improving these advantages, and cftablishing a complete and effective force in the country, was now pretty generally known. With refpect to the meafures intended to be propofed by an hon. Secretary for augmenting the troops of the line, when they came before the Houfe he thould deliver his fentiments upon them: but of this he was convinced in common with all officers who were converent upon the fubject, that the army ought to be augmented, a d that much time had been loft.

Lord Cafilereagh found it neceffary to explain, as an allufion had been made to a statement which he had given on a former occafion, that the recruiting fervice had not been a fourteenth less than at any former period. The injury he was willing to admit in a certain degree, but not by any means to the extent that was contended for.

Mr. C. Wynne made fome obfervations upon defects, which, he contended, prevailed in the prefent volunterfy f tem. The men, he faid, could not learn the use of arms before they had arms given them. A comparatively fmall number were acquainted with ball firing. He knew of two counties where not a fingle mutket had been received, and other diftricts where not one half of the volunteers had been armed. He was glad the Houfe were about to be rid of fuch a bill it was going to a place whence he hoped it would not return, unlefs it was inoculated with a little more vigour, and a little more efficacy.

Sir IV. Geary made a few remarks upon the fubject, and contended, that the volunteer fyftem could not be fairly held to interfere with the recruiting of the line, the dininution of which proceeded from the militia and the army

of referve.

Mr. H. Lafcelles faid a few words refpecting the provifions in the bill relative to farmers' fervants; the time, he thought, fhould be enlarged, or perpetual difputes would enlue.

The queftion being loudly called for, was then put, when the bill was read a third time and palled, and Mr. Tierney was ordered to carry it to the Lords for their concurrence.

The report of the innkeepers' allowance bill was received, and the bill ordered to be read a third time the next day.

The remaining orders of the day were difpofed of, and at half patt twelve o'clock the Houfe adjourned.

HOUSE