VOLUNTEER REGULATIONS BILL.

The order of the day for the fecond reading of this bill being read,

Lord Hawlebery rofe, and delivered his fentiments upon the measure. He fet out with calling the attention of their Lordships to what had tranfpired laft feffion upon the fubject, and the measures adopted by the Legislature thereon, and on which the prefent bill was founded. In difcuffing the fubject, they were to confider the volunteer force merely in a relative point of view. With regard to the point which had been fo repeatedly urged, that his Majefty's Government depended chiefly upon the volunteer force for the defence of the country, he must decidedly proteft against it. The first general mode of defence, which they relied upon, was the regular established military force of the country. In viewing the ftate and preparation of this force at prefent, he would have to look comparatively at what it was in former periods of equal or nearly fimilar urgency; not in an invidious point of view, but merely to apprize their Lordships of the real facts of the cafe. There were at prefent not lefs than 180,000 regular troops in the united kingdom. The volunteer force, however, for general service, though it might be inferior to this, was, he contended, in fome points of view, more efficacious than any other fpecies of defenfive force; it was intended to act, in general, as a subsidiary force. In this part of his difcuffion, the noble Lord took a view of the comparative advantages and difadvantages which the invaders. poffeffed: one permanent advantage and great fuperiority which the latter had over the former was, that they could have an armed nation at their fide, the manifold advantages of which could be more cafily conceived than described. The known and established prerogative of the Crown, to call upon all the liege fubjects of the realm to come forward and arm in defence thereof, in cafe of actual invasion, was certainly a confolatory and important confideration; but the difficulty lay in rendering the force thus acquired adequately fuccefsful without previous preparation. This principle Government had in view when they propofed legiflative meafures for arraying the national defence, and dividing the effective population of the country into diftinct claffes, which could be regularly recurred to, as the exigency thould require. At the fame time, with reference to meafures conneed with that under confideration, a fufpending power

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was vested in the Crown, on fuch occafions as a certain proportionate number of volunteers fhould come forward in different parts of the kingdom. This fpecies of force, being deemed upon the whole decidedly preferable to the other, which it was felt would be productive of numerous inconveniences to individuals, it was thought beft to take advantage of that zeal and patriotic ardour which the volunteers manifefted in freely coming forward in defence of their country; and under thofe confiderations, wherever a certain proportion of volunteers were embodied, it was held unneceffary to carry the general defence act into execution. The number of volunteers at prefent in Great Britain alone, he was happy to inform the Houfe, fell little thort of 330,000. A force of this immenfe number was in itself not only of the highest importance, and an acquifition the advantages of which were almoft incalculable; but it must neceffarily be fuppofed to confift of fuch a variety of materials, and to involve fo many various confiderations, that the ground for aftonishment fairly was, that fo few difficulties were found to intervene in its organization and advance to its prefent state of difcipline and efficacy. He then adverted to the idea of the utility of an armed peafantry, which had been infifted upon by fome as fo far preferable, as to juftity the cancelling and diforganizing that part of the national force then under confideration. He was aware, that in fome circumstances and fituations an armed peafantry might be used with effect; but it was held a matter of great doubt in fome of the most respectable military opinions in the country, whether a force of that de fcription were beft calculated for a contest of the nature of that in which we were embarked, and whether in all its different bearings and relations the force to which the bill before their Lordthips referred was not far preferable. With refpect to the conteft, generally fpeaking, in which we are engaged, the wifeft policy, efpecially with reference to the measure under confideration, would be to confider it as likely to be protracted, and the force in queftion, as one of which we could avail ourfelves at any future period. Upon thefe general grounds, the fyftem of regulations which the bill went to enact would, he thought, be the most advisable. The confideration of difcipline fhould not be puthed to that extent as to render it inconvenient or hataffing to individuals, or to interfere too much with their private or civil concerns. It had been contended that a third or a fourth part of the prefent amount, perfectly and regularly d.fciplined

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and trained. would be preferable to the greater number moderately difciplined, and less trained to the ufe of ar.ns; but this was very queftionable. To take it in every point of view, in his eftimation the fyftem which the bill went to fanction was decidedly preferable. He then adverted to fome prominent regulations in the bill, and expreffed his opinion, that it was fair and proper that the conditions upon which the volunteers entered, thould be fcrupulously fulfilled on the part of Government, and fuch was certainly intended. With respect to the idea held out of the right of volunteers to elect their own officers, nothing, he obferved, in the acts alluded to, tended to countenance fuch a pofition: the right in the cafe before them, was as abfolutely and incontrovertibly vested in the Crown, as was that right in every defcription of military force: the language of the acts was, that the officers fhould be perfens holding commiffions from his Majefty, which clearly implied a difcretionary power in the Crown. The noble Secretary then proceeded to defcribe the fubftance of the claufes and provifions of the bill, in which it is unneceffary for us to follow him. He admitted the meafure unavoidably involved fome anomalies, which were infeparable from a fyftem of fo various and extenfive a nature. It was however important, in viewing the fubject before them, their Lord hips thould bear in mind, that when in cafe of invafion any part of thofe volunteer forces was called out, they would be fubject to the provifions of the mutiny bill and to martial law, which would tend, for the time, to perfect their efficacy, and to affimilate them to the regular troops. His Lordship fpoke in terms of the highest fatisfaction of the powerful military force which the exertions and policy of his Majefty's Government had established in the country, and which would be found to be numerous and effective beyond all former example. He instanced the cafe of the year 1798, when thefe iflands, he faid, were held to be in danger of invafion, the Government of that day boafted their accumulated force of 250.000 men. At the prefent period there were ready to meet the attack no fewer than 450,000 men in arms. The real question, however, he admitted was not whether comparatively more or less had been done, but whether enough had been done towards perfecting the national means of defence. He had pointedly to urge the adoption of the regulations provided by the prefent bill for the volunteer force of the country. His Lord

ship concluded by moving, that the bill be then read a fecond time.

On the question being put,

The Earl of Carnarvon rofe and faid, I fhould have felt no objection to almoft any fyftem, whether of volunteers or armed peafantry, which could have added useful strength to the country at a moment when all its energies must be exerted, provided in its formation it had not a tendency to prejudice our more effectual and regular force, and the conftitution of the country had not been unneceffarily impaired. A Spirit and courage, more than equal to the dangers that threaten, has manifefted itself in every clafs of people univerfally through every part of the country in a manner with out example; and might have fupplied his Majefty's Minifters with ample means of organizing fome permanent fyftem of defence, capable of refifting any attacks which our most inveterate enemies could make upon us now, or at any future period. But Minifters have been bewildered with the quantity of materials in their hands, and whatever advantages might have been derived from a volunteer fyftem, have been loft by their mifmanagement; they have fo fingularly arranged it, that it is incapable of being fubftantially amended in a Committee, and inftead of a volunteer force which might have been firmly relied upon in the time of danger, they have erected a fabric which may diffolve before the moment of its ufe. They have encouraged and accepted offers, referving to the corps the extraordinary power of withdrawing their fervices at pleasure, at any time before the appearance of the enemy; fo that the danger may meet us, without force; and to this abfurdity they have pledged the King's faith, and put it out of the power of a Committee to correct this error. This evil is further increased by a review of the curious fabrication of that which is peculiarly called the defence bill. I agree with the noble Secretary of State, that the merits of the volunteer fyftem propofed to be amended by this bill, cannot be duly estimated but by a confideration of the general state of the defence of the country. I must therefore confider the defence act and the prefent bill as one, they are indeed fo interwoven that they cannot be feparated; the firft is the reputed parent and heir of the latter, for the noble Secretary informs us, that the failure of the volunteer system, is to be replaced by the execution of the defence act, which is now placed on the shelf and remains a dead letter. This extraordinary

extraordinary act is founded on an affertion of an ancient prerogative of the Crown of which not the flightest proof was pro duced when the bill was urged with fuch precipitation through this Houfe, that it paffed in two days without the ufual forms, as if difcuffion was dangerous. The affertion of this unknown though it seems undoubted prerogative, feems to have been intended for the fole purpose of making the extraordinary provifions of the bill appear to be deeply rooted in the ancient conftitution of the country, left the system adopted by the bill fhould appear as repugnant to mankind, namely, of blending all claffes and conditions of men, from the Prince of Wales (the firft fubject) to the lowest beggar that intefts the ftreets, in one common array as common foldiers equally serving in the ranks and liable to the most disgraceful punishment for offending the dignity and commands of a Chelsea penfioner ferjeant or corporal to be placed over them, equally liable from the highest to the lowest to be transferred to the ranks of the regulars, militia, or fencibles. The Prince of Wales, if he had not fortunately been colonel of a regiment of dragoons, would have found that his ftation in the country, when its dangers call every man to his poft, is decided by this act to be in the ranks, a common foldier, looking to corporal's rank as promotion. No man but thofe who formed this plan could believe fuch an impracticable fyftem of folly could have Luggested itself as a serious fyftem of defence to a set of men calling themselves statesmen, or could expect a facility in its execution, introduced by the affertion of a prerogative which never existed nor could now be put into execution. But in truth this fyftem was not fo much calculated or intended to be acted upon, as to create a terror which fhould have the effect of railing volunteers by compulfion, on whom the framers of the bill placed their ultimate truft for the defence of the country. The whole ftructure of the defence bill marks that this forced body of volunteers was the object of an act which has ultimately lodged in the Crown a power which is fubverfive of the conftitution of the country and the liberties of all claffes. By this ingenious contrivance it was expe&ed that volunteers would come forward to protect their neighbours from the oppreflive operation of the act, and being fo produced would make a better defence against the enemies than an army compofed by the act of perfons whofe education, habits of life and inclination revolted against the pofition in which they were placed by force. The framers of the bill might have in vain waited for any extenfive army of volunteers