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fubje&t of censure or cominent in that House, since they could not be brought forward as the basis of a motion for an address to his Majesty. He had thought it incumbent upon hiin, since the topic had been introduced, to say these few words in vindication of his noble friend, who, if he had erred, muft have erred only from a deep and honest conviction that his exertions and advice would produce the most beneficial effects in that country, wliere he had the honour to fill a very bigh situation under the Government. As to the fentiments whicli had been imputed to his noble Friend, it was fufficient to ftate, that he had been here the best friend to those very men whom he was now accused of perfecuting; and that in all the measures which had been adopted of late years for their relief and toleration, he had himself been per. sonally and warmly engaged in the passing of the different bills, which they conceived so intimately connected with their happiness and interests. With regard to the bill before the House, he did not see it in the same objectionale point of view in which it appeared to present ilse!f to some other noble Lords. He should not for a monicnt hesitate to! say, that the principle of an armed body deliberating was improper and unconftitutional; but it was at the same time to be understood, that the power of deliberating might be occasionally exercised by arned bodies, when it could alone arise from, and be regulated by, the force and urgency of peculiar and extraordinary circunstances. His Lordship having considered the operation of the bill as essentially connected with the safety and welfare of the two countries, concluded with saying that it should have his cordial support.

The Earl of Carnarvon-I have long entertained principles decisive of my opinion against this bill, of the introduction of the Irish militia into this country on its internal demerits, but the arguments by which it has been defended have greatly augmented my objections. It has been openly stated, by an illusuious person, that he confidered the measure as a prelude tó a reciprocity of service, and interchange of militia of the two countries. Ministers avow openly that they entirely approve of the principle which blends the service of the militia of the united kingdoms, but that they do not think that it could now be prudently urged, as not at this moment confonant to the opinions and feciings of those who fill the bigber taljons in the English militia. I am happy to hear that such opinions and feelings are known to prevail; I trust that they will continue 10).pro:eft,


and I hope will in the end restore, the constitutional principles of the militia to its original spirit. If I had no other objections to the introduction of this bi:l, I should be induced to resist this prelude to an intended evil for its bad intentions. . Before I enter farther into the subject I must observe, that the learned Lord on the woollack, who, role with a proper warmth to protect the chara ter of a learned friend whom he thought attacked, seems to have mistaken the observation of the noble Lord who sits near me (Lord Boringdan): as far as I could collect from what he said, the noble Lord did not, in the Rightest degree, impeach that learned Lord's character or conduct, for he gave no opinion on the papers or persons alluded to, but only observed, that those who expected a perfect consolidation of the union beIween the two countries to take place, would be disappointed, as long as the letters which had made their appearance, and agitated the public mind, remained unexamined and unnoticed by the Government of the country. The noble Baron certainly did not bring into question either the truth or falsehood of the papers, or merits or deinerits of the leveral parties involved ; Iirust also that I thall not be under. ftood to convey any blame on any person, when 'I deduce a strong argument against this bill, from the opinion of the same learned Lord, as it appears in those letters against a set of men, who most probably compose the whole, or a very great part of the 10,000 Irish militia proposed to be tranf.' ferred to Great Britain by this bill : ceriainly the charge contained in thole letters, by a person so highly situated and furniched with information, must weigli strongly as an obje&tion against the admission of regiments so formed. The subject before us has been discussed under singular impressions which mark That no found ideas of a militia are entertained. All military corps, however raised, and with whatever views, have been considered as similar, as if all were equally to be classed as army. The noble Maiquis (Headforo) says, thai if the Gentlemen who compose the militia of Great Britain dislike palling the sea and defending Ireland, now part of the united empire, they are not fit to be sol.. diers ; his observation, and all the arguments I have yet heard, would send the militia to Jatraica, tu Ceylon, or any part of the empire at large. Oiher noble Loids haje conceived the diflike to receive the generous offers of fervice from the Irish inilitia as a prejudice against the natives of Ireland and the union. I have always considered the militia

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as a body perfeétly distinct from the army, and have refifted their assimilation to the army. It is not that I consider the individuals who compose the ranks of the militia, or the officers who command them, as in any thing individually better or different from those who compose the army ; they are drawn from the same materials, and are equally respec-, table, but they are formed and arranged on a different model, both adapted to the stations they were meant to fill. The militia is calculated for a garrison of home defence, drawing into useful occupation those persons who would not enter the military line as a profession, but were willing to perform a limited service, absolutely necessary to be performed by some persons; to furnith a protection in the time of peace against the sudden emergencies of commencing hostilities, and a sufficient garrison, in its original numbers of 32,000 men, for the two principal naval depôts, and capable, to the extent of their numbers, during a war, to perforni most essential service in case of invasion : by their land qualification, not wanting, and by their formation, cut off from all poflible military promotion, they necessarily formed a corps not so obviously influenced by perfonal views, nor looking up to the executive Government for advancement. Their independence, local attachment and property, supply them with patriotism and personal infiuence, which cannot but be of more conftitutional security in the defence of the country, to a certain extent, than any army of persons professionally engaged. But the extension of this inilitary corps, (to numbers beyond a moderate infular garrison) either in order to destroy the distinct spirit and popular principles of the militia, by confounding them gradwally with the army, or from the most impolitic and mean pecuniary motives, preferring a cheaper levy of less ule for the general purposes of war, to the army establishment, which has the advantage of experience, and whole professional views are the honourable motives which affift in exciting to great actions, useful to the country and to the individuals; the changes which have been made by their powerful enemies have so much altered the milicia, that its preservation is scarce an obje&t, indeed its annihilation would become so, if some faint hopes of its revival did not linger in the breasts of its wellwishers, who are still inclined to prevent further aggressior's on its principles and practice. The name of militia does not make the corps so called in each country similar to each other, or objects of reciprocal interchange; if it were possible that each could serve with

equal equal advantages in either country : but what is militia (in its true meaning) in one country, is an army in the other. Local attachments from similar customs and manners cannot be exchanged, the conftitutional advantages, therefore, must be greatly diminished, and each corps so removed from their intercourse with their friends and families, will pattake more of the feelings of a standing army than they would in their own country. It is no answer to this objection that it goes againit the removal of the English militia from county to county ; it in some measure does, and if invasion of an island did not involve the whole island of necessity in one campaign and one state of warfare, the less they were removed from local affections and intercourse, and the less this species of force was taught to forget that they were defending their own homes and families, the better. The principle on which a militia is formed is not, nor can, nor ought, to be adapted to the extended service of an arıny. I have no difficulty in saying that we are all individually pledged in honour, as well as intereft, to support, to the utmoft of our power, the safety, interest, and conftitutional freedom of the united empire in every part ; but that is not the question on the present discussion, which is whether we 1hould accept the generous offers of the Irish militia, for certainly they are generous as far as relates to the offers; but I do not think they are consistent with the constitution of either country, and it is on the ground of the systein being detrimental to both countries that I object to their acceptance. A noble Earl on the other fide has given us the topographical history of blunders, and deduced them from what he is willing in pleasantry io admit to be its parent foil; I confels that I have not oblerved that blunders are exclusively the growth of any country, and I am lure that he will find more proofs of blunders and curf. fion in the acts of the present Ministers, than he could find l' di: class of men in Ireland ; but he commits himiel añ ki if not a blunder, in fuppofing that the meeting !.. Lieutenants of counties, and Members of Parliallisbio. ing commissions in the militia of any coun::, was not the spirit of blunder by those who objected the listei tions of armed corps. I confess I am not about found tlie similarity of the meeting of the cluis arintilo. .. chut of a regiment meeting to deliberate on tuet :: as a regiment. Lord Lieutenants are no more informa's mise cers ihan Deputy Lieutenants of each coul!!", could not (without being within the mi chief of it . . [LORDS, deliberations) assemble on the subject of the militia, their principal duty would be undone. It is not worth any further observation, than that Lieutenants of counties, if they can be called military men, are not an united corps, nur can act together; Members of Parliament, with commil. fions in the several counties, do not compose a military corps, nor can act together as such, and the meeting could have no question whether they should as a corps act or not; but whether they, knowing the principles of the militia, Thould, as Members of the Legislature, encourage or difcourage a given fyftem as advantageous or disadvantageous to the country, it has no posible operation on the discipline of any military body, which the deliberation of a military corps whether they ihould, as such, adopt or reject a piopoial to act in corps, obviously has. I will now ftate niy objcériun to this measure as respecting Ireland, as far as it now operates, before it produces the evil to Ireland of reciprccal interchange. As an Trila militia belongs locally to Treiand, the land owners of that country by a pecuniary charge affecting them exclusively of others, and not affect. ing the public purse, have paid the price of a home defence confined to Ireland; it is a breach of faith of the highest class to remove their home defence, levied at their expence, without their content; it manifests a tuial want of sense, or a voluntary abdication of all justice, to consider the consent of the man hired for that defence io be equiva. lent to the consent of him who purchased the defence lo hired; the man hired to serve only in Ireland certainly ought not to bave his service extended without his conseni, but surely his content to withdraw his services from those who hired them, cannot jusify this breach of contract to his employers, fanctioned by Parliament. The injustice does noi stop here, for an equal nuniber of Irish militia aie to be raised to replace them, and then the perfons who are defrauded by this bill must be at further expence to obtain the defence for which they before paid, witli diminished trust in the faith of Parliament that ihey shall have what they pay for. This additional injufiice must follow, if they are to pay the levy money in the same way that the preient Irish niitia is raised, but if the cxfence of the augmentation of militia in lieland should come out of the public purse, (which will be a cunfeflion that they ought not in pay, bicause they have been defrauded) then we in England pay towards the liith militia, and they do not pay towards ours; and the ig urance of our luw makers throw


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