until the thing objected to was removed, there was no room for what should be fubftituted. Befides, it did not neceffarily follow that any thing was to be fubftituted for a claufe which the Committee might reject, for it might pafs on to the next without further notice of the provifion it negatived: but if the doctrine of the hon. and learned Gentleman was to be followed, then, while there remained any variety of opinion in the Committee as to the measure which ought to be adopted in lieu of a measure which the Committee difapproved, the Committee must be content with that which it difapproved. By this perhaps the Houfe could never be able to divide at all upon any measure, for it was hardly conceivable how the House should agree in the first instance to any measure which was to fucceed a bad one, which was generally disapproved of; that could not be the cafe, for what was to fucceed any measure ought to be matter of discuffion.

Mr. Pitt faw no difficulty whatever in the prefent amendment, on account of the want of a specific form of words to fucceed those propofed to be left out, and he had fketched fomething to that effect to obviate the further use of that objection, which did not appear to him to be very good logic; for furely it was competent to the Houfe to fay it did not approve of a certain measure, before it had determined that another measure, or whether any measure, fhould be adopted.inftead of it. He thought there was better fecurity in having three officers than one to judge of fuch a cafe as this. He then ftated the fubftance of what he thought might without impropriety be adopted in lieu of this claufe, which was, that it fhall be lawful for a commanding officer of a corps, to require a number of officers of fuch corps, to examine and pronounce on any allegation of difobedience or mifconduct, or want of attention, negligence, &c. and if they report their opinion that fuch perfon ought to be dif charged, and the commanding officer approve thereof, &c. then fuch perfon to be difcharged, &c. That, or any other form which had that fubftance, he fhould approve, and that was the idea for which he should vote on the question thenbefore the Committee.

Mr. Secretary Yorke argued against the amendment, as involving a total alteration of the volunteer fyftem; and the arguments upon which it was fupported, appeared to him to be of a fimilar kind with thofe ufed by the oppofers of the volunteer fyftem.

H 2

The

The question being at length loudly called for, a divifion took place, when there appeared,

For the amendment

For the claufe as it originally stood

Majority

69

116

47

On our readmiffion to the gallery, the Committee were proceeding with the difcuffion of the clause refpecting the levying diftreffes in certain cafes, when

Mr. Pitt took occafior: to exprefs his regret at the change of opinion which had taken place on that point, as it clearly appeared to him that the mode of proceeding to a diftrefs, was more oppreffive as well as lefs efficacious than the alternative of commitment for a fhort period.

Mr Burland adverted to the clause he had propofed on a former night, relative to this part of the fubje&t; he had fince thaped a claufe agreeably to the fuggeftions of the right hon. the Secretary at War, the effect of which was, that an interval of seven days should be allowed for the payment of fines, &c. This was agreed to by the Committee, as was a claufe propofed by Mr. Secretary Yorke, to prevent the undue accumulation of fines.

Mr. Secretary Yorke propofed two other claufes, the one refpecting the powers of commanding officers with respect to the mifconduct of volunteers; and the other relative to the exemptions of the fervants of farmers enrolled in volunteer corps. Thefe, as well as a third claufe proposed by the right hon. Secret:ry, refpecting the remuneration to be given to the clerks of the deputy lieutenants, &c. were feverally agreed to by the Committee.

Mr. Pitt ftated, that he had two claufes to propofe. The first went to give a power to commanding officers, in cafe of volunteers abfenting themselves from exercife, except in cafes of illness duly proved, to levy a fine not exceeding 5s. for every day a volunteer fhall abfent himself, and if the perfon liable to the fine fhould not be chargeable with the poor's rates, &c. that the faid fine fhould not exceed 1s. The fecond went to impofe, in cafes of neglecting to attend for three fucceffive days, the fum of 40s. and the fum of 5s. for every fubfequent non-attendance, &c.

Mr. Secretary Yorke conceived it his duty to oppose the introduction of fuch enactments into the bill. He was of opinion, that inftead of ameliorating, they would greatly tend to overfet the fyftem. He was adverfe to the prin

ciple of applying, except where it could not be avoided, parliamentary regulations to things of the kind; and in Hluftrating thefe pofitions, he referred to certain regulations adopted in the defence act.

Mr. Pitt observed, that he did not mean to trouble the Committee by taking their fenfe upon the points, though he conceived fuch regulations would be highly ferviceable. The obfervations of the right hon. Gentleman, in reference to the defence act, did not apply to the points in difcuffion, as in the one cafe the enrolment was compulfory, in the other voluntary. He deprecated the idea of fuch regulations involving a breach of faith, efpecially when the unlimited power of refignation was remembered: fo far from Parliament being implicated upon the occafion, thofe things were exprefsly left to the regulation of his Majefty's Minifters, and that they were not properly arranged, was because the Executive Government did not think fit to provide the neceffary regulations.

The queftions were then put on the above amendments, which were negatived by the Committee.

The claufes, &c. being entirely gone through,

Mr. Secretary Yorke faid, that with refpect to the future progrefs, he would propofe that the report be immediately received, that the bill with the amendments should then be printed, and that the report fhould be further confidered on Thursday, if no other business stood in the way, or on Friday.

Mr. Pitt obferved, that the motion which he had given notice of for Thursday, it was his intention to make on that day.

Mr. Secretary Yorke took the opportunity to obferve, that it would be proper Minifters fhould have fome previous information as to the nature of the right hon. Gentleman's intended motion; he would therefore fubmit the propriety of a communication from the right hon. Gentleman on that head.

Mr. Pitt faid, it would be obvioufly irregular at that moment, before the Chairman had quitted the chair, to make the defired communication.

The House then refumed, and Mr. Alexander brought up the report, which was received pro forma. The Houfe ordered the bill, as amended, to be printed, and to be taken into further confideration on Friday next.

Mr. Pitt then explained more minutely what was the object of his intended motion. He faid that he had indeed already

already communicated the substance of his motion to one of the Lords of the Admiralty, from whom he thought Minifters might probably have heard it. It was his intention to move for an account of the number of that defcription of force which is beft calculated to repel the attacks of the enemy at the present moment, that we have now in commiffion, he meant frigates, floops, cutters, and all the fmaller defcription of armed veffels which were capable of failing in fhallow water, and defending our coaft. He meant alfo to move for an account of a fimilar nature, with respect to that species of force in the year 1801, with a view of comparing them together. He fhould alfo move for an account of the naval force of the country of another defcription, namely, fhips of the line, which we had in commiffion in the year 1798, and in the year 1801, and alfo the amount of thofe which had been launched fince that period, or which may have been laid down, or be building in his Majefty's dock yards. The number of feamen which were employed in. his Majefty's navy at thofe different periods fhould also be an object of his motion Upon the whole, as it was his with to have every information which could lead to a fair comparison of the state of our naval defence at different times and under different circumftances, he could not pofitively fay that it might not poffibly branch out to other heads than thofe which he had already stated.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer prefented certain accounts relative to his Majefty's civil lift, the titles of which were read by the clerk. The papers were then, on the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, ordered to be referred to the Committee appointed to take into confideration the ftate of his Majefty's civil lift.

The other orders of the day were difpofed of, and the House, at half paft 12 o'clock, adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

TUESDAY, MARCH 13.

The bills before the Houfe were forwarded in their refpective stages, and fome routine bufinefs was difpofed of.

Sir J. W. Anderfon, attended by feveral Members, brought up Alderman Boydell's lottery bill from the Commons.

The Irish prieits and deacons orders' bill was prefented by Dr. Duigenan, and a few private bills were brought up by Mr. Baldwin and other Gentlemen.

On the queftion for the first reading of Alderman Boydell's lottery bill being put,

The

The Earl of Suffolk rofe, not to oppose the bill, which he was rather friendly to, but to make a few observations · upon a fubject of fome national importance, and which he conceived in fome degree connected with the measure under confideration. What he principally alluded to was the present state of the art of engraving in this country, which he conceived, either in confequence of the neglect of the artifts employed, or of having in general fallen into incompetent hands, to have confiderably declined of late. In former periods the fuperior execution of the English artists in that line, not only enhanced the credit and reputation of the country in that refpect, but produced effects of no fmall confideration as to its commerce and revenue. The first English print which found its way to the continent was, he believed, the fine engraving from the picture of the death of General Wolfe; this was executed by that ingenious and admirable engraver, Mr. Woollett, who had beftowed great pains and trouble, and employed an interval of three or four years in producing that exquifite fpecimen of the art: these fuccefsful exertions defervedly gained in the event 60001, or T000l. There was alfo another engraving, namely, the battle of La Hogue, which did the greateft honour to the artist who engraved it, and by which, he believed, the fum of 40001. or 5000l. was defervedly gained. He adverted to thefe facts chiefly to fhew what English artists were capable of performing, and who at one period were unrivalled by thofe of any other nation. This, he was forry to have oc cafion to observe, was far from being the cafe at present, and to this caufe was perhaps chiefly to be attributed the defaleation which of late years the revenue experienced on that head, in confequence of the diminished exportation of the article alluded to; and this amounted to a very confi derable fum. He repeated, that he did not mean to oppose the bill; he had the higheft refpe&t for the worthy Alderman in whose behalf it was brought forward, and whofe spirit and exertions in the line in queftion deferved the highest encouragement and applaufe. To him no part of what he had obferved was applied; but he thought it incumbent upon him to take the opportunity to throw out what forcibly ftruck him, in the hope that what he said might be productive, in fome degree, of beneficial confequences.

The bill was then read a first time.

The Lord Chancellor quitted the woolfack, and obferved, that he partly concurred in what had fallen from the noble

Earl