MR. HUME, after the long discussion which had taken place on this most important question, did not rise to enter into its merits. He only rose to submit to the noble Lord (Lord G. Bentinck) the propriety of not pressing for the appointment of this Committee after the candid statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to the intentions of the Government. The noble Lord had so framed his Motion as to include an inquiry into everything connected with the colonies. He had not defined or limited his views to any one object. But what had been the response of the Chancellor of the Exchequer? Why, a short time, unmistakingly show them- mother country; but if these repeated asselves in the revenue returns; indeed, the saults were made on their vital interests, Chancellor of the Exchequer had himself we could expect but little assistance from admitted, in the early part of the present them if a powerful enemy in that quarter Session, that there had been a defalcation declared war against Great Britain. in the revenue in consequence of those commercial embarrassments which had lately occurred; and although he did not admit that those embarrassments were caused in any degree by free trade, yet he admitted that the revenue was in an unsatisfactory state. And he could tell the right hon. Gentleman that the state of the revenue would become more and more embarrassed every year; and that the income-tax, which was established in a time of profound peace, and which was so unpopular when it was brought forward, must henceforth become perpetual; and not only that, but its weight, he believed, must of necessity be increased even in the present he said, "I make no objection to a ComSession of Parliament, which necessity mittee; but I am bound to tell you that, would increase every year. And he said whatever you do, we will not go beyond that because there was no proper remu- what I tell you;" and the right hon. Genneration held out for the capitalist to in- tleman had explicitly declared what the vest his money in public works; the great object of the Government was. The right body of the people were consequently with- hon. Gentleman said that one of the most out employment, and obliged to be sus- important points in the case was to let the tained by the workhouse authorities. He West India interest know what they had verily believed that the great mass of the to expect. Would not the appointment of people of this country, who in prosperous a Committee create expectations which times contributed the great bulk of the would not be realised? He, therefore, apfiscal exactions, were at the present mo- pealed to the noble Lord who had brought ment enduring sufferings unparalleled in forward this Motion, with an anxious dethe commercial history of Great Britain. sire to relieve the distresses of those whose And he was of opinion that that distress case he advocated. He believed the nowould continue and magnify unless the ble Lord had avoided the recital of the Government and the Legislature returned disastrous state of circumstances, which to the principles of protection. The West few were aware of. He had had the state Indian proprietors, in the extremity of of things in the colonies put before him, their distress, were now calling for a re- within a short period, and he considered peal of the navigation laws; the fact was, these important interests were in most that that protection to which they were imminent danger. He therefore submitted fairly entitled having been removed, they to the noble Lord that he should not press knew not to what source to apply for re- his Motion for a Committee; but, on the lief. Whatever palliatives, however, might explanation given by the right hon. Genbe now adopted to remedy their grievances, tleman, cast the entire responsibility upon must all eventually fail, unless measures Her Majesty's Government. Many of the were brought forward in which the colo- propositions of that right hon. Gentleman nies would be treated as integral portions were good; and he was glad to hear the of the empire. Unless this were done, his Chancellor of the Exchequer frankly conimpression was that the colonies would be fess that it was by no means the intention lost to us altogether. If they continued of the Government to depart from the to maltreat them as they had of late, they principles of free trade in their treatment might soon set about negotiating with the of the colonies. He believed that those United States for the sale of the colonies principles had not yet had a fair trial in for a slight compensation. The Canadas, the colonies; and that, if they had, the Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and the colonies would not be in their present disWest India colonies generally, had hither-tressed condition. He had no hesitation in to shown the most loyal attachment to the saying that free labour could compete with slave labour under good government; but | country; but, in their present position, so until the produce of the one was made fairly far from being of service, they became to compete with that of the other, free trade dangerous to the empire. He hoped the would not have had a proper trial. The noble Lord opposite would not persist in right hon. Gentleman had talked about selecting the Committee; but if he did so 40,000 Coolies here and 25,000 there, and he trusted he would include Mr. Wakley, asked was not that an amount equal to the coroner, in order that the hon. Gentlehalf the population of the whole colonies? man might hold an inquest on the dead but the right hon. Gentleman forgot to in- body of the colonies. He entreated the form the House that this labour had been noble Lord not to accept what the Governintroduced in driblets, and only after the ment appeared willing to give, as by so colonists had expended their capital, and doing a great portion of the responsibility therefore it was of little or no use. What would be removed from their shoulders. the colonies wanted was a law to secure continuous labour, and to prevent squatting. They also wanted to be governed on general principes laid down by Parliament, and not at the caprice of an everchanging Colonial Secretary. If they had these, and a representative government, the rest might safely be left to their own good management. As to the question of slavery, he considered that we ought rather to use, to some real practical purpose, the enormous amount of money which was granted by this country for the suppression of the slave trade on the African coast, or abandon the attempt to suppress it as useless. In his opinion the latter would be the better plan, for he was quite sure that slavery could never be put down until free-labour produce could be had cheaper than that of slave labour. That was the only remedy against slavery. The pernicious system of colonial management at home had been the principal cause of all the evil. If they were to believe the statements of the right hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) to the prejudice of those made by gentlemen who had risked their property and lives in the colonies, the consequences might be of the most serious nature. It was utterly impossible that the colonial department of the Government could satisfactorily regulate the affairs of forty colonies, distant and scattered as they were. The suggestions of experienced and practical men had been discarded by the Government, and frequent changes and new appointments were constantly made, which rendered it impossible that the colonies could be prosperous. In order to adjust colonial affairs in a satisfactory manner, there ought to be an Act of Parliament passed, clearly defining what should be the system of government to be applied to the colonies, leaving the internal management to the local authorities. If this method were pursued, the colonies might be made useful to the MR. ELLICE could not resist seconding the appeal just made by his hon. Friend to the noble Lord opposite, to reconsider whether he might not better serve the cause which he wished to promote by not persevering in his proposition. He assured the noble Lord, that, as one of the West Indian body, he felt deeply grateful to him for the interest he had evinced in their cause. There was not one of the body who did not think the noble Lord had made the proposition in the best possible feeling, and he had come to the House prepared to give him his support; but since he had heard the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, his views had undergone a change. He agreed with the hon. Member for Middlesex in thinking that the concessions contemplated were of some importance in the present state of the West Indian colonies. His reason for begging the noble Lord to reconsider the matter arose from a feeling in his mind that expectations might be raised, and inducements afforded, to indulge in speculations in the colonies not justified by the result likely to be obtained by the concessions of the Government. There might be many expectations of various kinds raised, which, he felt satisfied, would end in disappointment. He would not join the Chancellor of the Exchequer in telling the colonies how they were to manage their affairs; but he would tell them that, as their position was now fairly ascertained, and as a fixed line of policy would be pursued towards them, that they should do the best they could to meet their situation. considerable experience of West Indian property; and his object had been to serve his tenants as much as he could, and avoid the responsibility of further advances in the dangerous situation of the colonies. He had told his tenants that if they could not pay their rent he would not demand it of them. [4 laugh.] Gentlemen near him appeared to smile at this; but he believed He had his remark would apply elsewhere besides the West Indian colonies. The grand desideratum for the colonists was for them to ascertain their true position, and to adapt their conduct to their circumstances. The right hon. Gentleman concluded by entreating the noble Lord to consider how far he might promote the interest he had at heart by persevering in his Motion for a Committee. Debate adjourned. House adjourned at Twelve o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, Friday, February 4, 1848. MINUTES.] Took the Oaths.-Several Lords. Singleton, and Ticehurst, Members of the Rural Decanal wich, against the Admission of Jews into Parliament.- lows, Manchester Unity, praying that the Provisions of the Benefit Societies Act may be Extended to them in common with other Benefit Societies. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Friday, February 4, 1848. dent Order of Odd Fellows, Manchester Unity, of various places, that the Provisions of the Benefit Societies Act may be extended to them.-By Mr. Moffatt, from William Young and Company, Distillers, Fifeshire, respecting the Bonding of British Spirits.-From Stafford, for Alteration of the Law of Currency.-By Mr. Cowan, from Edinburgh, for Repeal of Game Laws.-From Royal Burghs of Scotland, for the Construction of a Harbour of Refuge at Dunbar.-By Mr. Heywood, from Lancaster, for Retrenchment of the Naval and Military Expenditure.-By Mr. Cocks, from several places, for a Superannuation Fund for Poor Law Officers.-By Sir Joshua Walmsley, from Guardians of the Poor of the Leicester Union, for Alteration of the Law of Rating and Settlement. By Mr. Ewart, from Dumfries, for Inquiry respecting Turnpike Roads (Scotland). ELECTION PETITIONS. On the question that the Order of the Day for resuming the Adjourned Debate be read, MR. B. COCHRANE said, he would take the opportunity of putting a question to the right hon. Home Secretary, on a subject which he thought the House would deem important, as it involved considerations of justice as well as the interests of many hon. Gentlemen who were Members of that House. He wished to ask whether it was the intention of the right hon. Baronet to bring in any Bill to amend the present law with regard to the trial of election petitions? Many hon. Members of that MINUTES.] NEW WRIT.-For Salop (Northern Division), v. Viscount Clive, now Earl of Powis. livan, Esq. PUBLIC BILLS.-1° County Rates. PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Mr. Ewart, from Dumfries, for Abolishing the Privilege now granted to Members of Parliament of Freedom from Arrest.-From the Borough of Stafford, for Admitting the Bishop of Hereford to a Seat in the House of Lords.-By Mr. Headlam, from Abolition of Church Rates.-By a great many hon. Members, from an immense number of places, for and against Torquay, and Mr. F. Maule, from Members of the Free Synod of Angus and Mearns, for the Better Observance of the Sabbath.-By Mr. Alderman Thompson, from Newcastle and Gateshead Religious Freedom Society, for the Jewish Disabilities Bill.-By Mr. J. Y. Buller, from jected to great hardship by having petitions presented against their return, and by finding, when it had been proved that the petitions were not well grounded, that they were still liable to bear the expenses of defending their seats. It was true that Election Committees had the power of deciding that petitions were frivolous and Vexatious; but it was perfectly well known that they rarely did so unless in very strong cases; and it often happened that when Trusts Bill.-By Mr. Serjeant Talfourd, from Reading, hon. Members who had been petitioned complaining of the Conduct of the Roman Catholic Clergy against were declared to have been pro(Ireland).—By Sir R. H. Inglis, from various places, perly returned-when it was clear that they Roman Catholics of Falkirk, in favour of, the Roman had justice on their side-they were still Catholic Relief Bill.-By W. S. Lascelles, from Knares- saddled with very considerable expenses. borough, against Concession to the Roman Catholics. There was another point connected with respecting Sites for Churches (Scotland).-By Mr. Bouve- the trial of election petitions which he conrie, from Committee of the British and Foreign Anti-sidered deserved attention. A Member Slavery Society, for Inquiry respecting African Emigra Westmoreland, against the Roman Catholic Charitable against, and by the Earl of Arundel and Surrey, from By Mr. Fox Maule, from Perth, for Alteration of Law tion. By Mr. T. Baring, from Settlers in the Island of Grenada, and others, for Consideration of the West India of Exeter, for Repeal of Duty on Attorneys' Certificates. from Perth, for Revision of the Stamp Duties.-By Mr. Parker, from Sheffield, for Reduction of the Duties on Tea, Coffee, Sugar, and Cocoa; and from Stafford, for Repeal of the Window Duty.-By Mr. Bright, from Man chester Chamber of Commerce, against Resumption of the Corn Laws (1846).-By Mr. Hume, from Aberbrothwick, Scotland, for Repeal or Alteration of the Bank of England Charter Act, and Banks of Issue Act.-By Mr. Alderman Thompson, and Mr. B. Wall, from Indepen who was petitioned against was totally ignorant in what order the charges made against him by the petitioners would be proceeded with before the Committee; and it was, therefore, impossible for him to have those witnesses present who might be essentially necessary to meet any particular charge; and the adjournment of the Committee, to enable him to obtain the attendance of the requisite witnesses, was attended with great expense. He thought it only just that in these Committees the same principle should be followed which was adopted in every court of law-that a party placed upon his trial should be distinctly informed in what order the charges would be made against him, and by what testimony they were to be supported. He trusted that these matters would receive the consideration of the Government, and that they would propose some alteration of the existing system, which was fraught with very great injustice to hon. Gentlemen against whose return petitions might be presented. SIR G. GREY was not able to state that it was the intention of the Government to bring in any Bill to amend the law relating to the trial of election petitions, with regard to the points to which the hon. Member had referred. The hon. Gentleman had complained of the practice with reference to awarding costs in case of the failure of a petition. Now, he did not think it would be possible to deprive Election Committees of all discretion in the matter. There was now a discretion vested in them; and if the party in whose favour a decision was given applied to the Committee for costs, it was in their power to grant costs if they conceived the circumstances warranted them in doing so. But it would be impossible to provide by Act of Parliament that whichever party succeeded in obtaining the decision of the Committee should be reimbursed the whole of the costs he had incurred, for such a provision would be productive of greater inconvenience than the present practice. He believed the reason that Election Committees so seldom made orders for the payment of costs was, because they were very seldom applied for. The proceedings before those Committees were frequently very protracted, and when a party found that he was not likely to gain the object with which he prosecuted a petition, he believed it was the practice to give an intimation to the other side, and the petitioner retired from the contest on a sort of understanding that no application was to be made for costs. Under such circumstances, the party petitioned against was generally too happy to find that the opposition to his return was withdrawn, for it was more economical to terminate the contest in this manner than to carry it on for several days longer, in uncertainty as to its ultimate result, He did not think, therefore, that the law on this subject could be altered with any advantage. The hon. Member for Bridport had also referred to the inconvenience arising to a sitting Member who was petitioned against, from his not knowing in what order the objections made to his return would be proceeded with. It was provided by Act of Parliament that lists of the voters intended to be objected to, in the case of a scrutiny, should be delivered by the petitioners to the Election Committee, and that these lists should be accompanied by a general statement of the heads of objection; but he did not think it would be right to compel parties to state the order in which they intended to proceed with those objections. They ought not to compel parties to go on with a charge of bribery, when they considered that there was no charge of bribery which they would be able to substantiate, and when the real ground of objection upon which they intended to proceed was of another character. He (Sir G. Grey) thought, however, that it might be advantageous if the chairmen of Election Committees, following the example of the chairmen of Railway Committees, would draw up a series of rules for the adoption of the Committees over whom they might be called upon to preside, with a view to obviate unnecessary inconvenience and expense, and communicate those rules to the agents of parties who might come before them. He certainly did not consider that it was the province of the Government to propose any Bill on the subject. THE RIVER PLATE. MR. DISRAELI wished to take this opportunity of putting a question to the noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs respecting the past negotiations in the River Plate. The House would recollect that when the mission of Mr. Ouseley terminated, a copy of his instructions was laid upon the table by the Foreign Secretary. Since that period another mission had taken place to the same quarter; that mission had also terminated; and he wished to know whether the noble Lord would have any objection to lay upon the table a copy of the instructions furnished to Lord Howden? VISCOUNT PALMERSTON replied, that he did not think the instructions referred to by the hon. Gentleman could at present be produced, consistently with the public interests. Though the mission of Lord Howden had failed, two other persons were still employed-one by the British and the other by the French Governmentin continuing negotiations; and the two negotiations were so connected with each other-the one arising so much out of the | cases he intended to call the attention of the other that he considered it would be dis- House, and he hoped he should be able to advantageous to the public service if the give a satisfactory account of the conduct of instructions given to Lord Howden were the Government. With regard to the first laid before Parliament at the present mo- question, the hon. Member was a little unment. There would, however, be no ob- reasonable; reports from the Poor Law jection to the production of those instruc- Commissioners had been laid on the table tions when some arrangement had been at the latest moment that could be, during effected. the sitting of Parliament, and other papers were in preparation, and no time should be lost in completing and producing them; but it was impossible to say exactly how soon they could be laid before the House. POOR LAW ADMINISTRATION IN IRELAND. MR. P. SCROPE inquired when the House would be put in possession of a continuation of the papers relative to the proceedings of the Poor Law Commissioners in Ireland; and also whether any proceedings were being taken in Ireland by the Government, by indictment or otherwise, against those parties who were opposing the execution of the poor-law to such an extent as to occasion the death of a number-a considerable number, he feared-of Her Majesty's subjects? He stated this in general terms only, but he could refer to cases appearing upon papers already returned to the House by the Poor Law Commissioners to show that deaths were occurring by starvation, that being recorded as the cause in verdicts on coroners' inquests, and which deaths were entirely at tributed in the Poor Law Commissioners' reports to the neglect of boards of guardians and relieving officers to relieve the poor according to the law of last Session, notwithstanding those poor were entitled by law to be relieved and saved from perishing. That, he conceived, was an offence against the law, whether the parties were guilty by non-payment of their rates or non-fulfilment of their duties as guardians or relieving officers. The law in Ireland in this respect stood nearly upon the same footing as in England; and persons authorised by law to relieve the poor would, if any of them perished for want of the relief prescribed by law, be liable to indictment for a misdemeanor, if not for a higher offence. SIR W. SOMERVILLE felt that the mode in which his hon. Friend had put the second question was so vague, that he was really at a loss to give an answer. The hon. Member appeared to have entered rather into a discussion on the general merits of the poor-law, than to have inquired respecting any particular occurrence. As the hon. Gentleman proposed to put a notice on the paper upon the subject, he would perhaps then state to what SUGAR AND COFFEE PLANTATIONS- MR. WILSON, on the Order of the Day for the Adjourned Debate on Lord George Bentinck's Motion being read, rose and said, that in addressing the House on this debate, it was his intention to confine himself strictly to the subject-matter introduced by the noble Lord, and to refrain from travelling into any questions connected with the general policy of the country, which had been noticed in the course of the preceding discussion. He would be perfectly satisfied to look at the question merely as it affected the interests of the cultivators of sugar, and to take the result of the arguments on the statements made by the planters themselves-on the condition of the demands they were making for increased protection-and on the power of Government to afford it to them. The demands put forward by the West Indian interests might be taken as they were summed up in a pamphlet in favour of these claims, under four heads : "1. That moral considerations compel us to prohibit the introduction of slave produce as long as moral considerations compel us to prevent slavery. labour, and therefore to expose the West Indian "2. That slave labour is cheaper than free planter to a competition with slave labour, confining him to the use of free labour, is unequal and unjust. "3. That the exclusion of slave-labour sugar would be a protection to the British planter, and enable him to compete, and that the produce of Brazil and Cuba should be excluded. "4. That the Legislature has therefore the power to protect the colonies by excluding or charging with a heavier duty the produce of slave labour.' On these four points he was willing to hang the whole merits of the question; and if he did not succeed in setting aside every one of these positions, he should fall far short of what he expected to prove to the satisfaction of the House. The first |