question into which he would not then enter [hear, hear !]. He begged not to be misunderstood on this subject. What he maintained was, that the orders of the Catholic Association, and the operations under those orders, had the effect of producing what was actually an obligatory payment of sums, which many of those who contributed them were very unwilling and little able to pay.

He would next inquire into the application of this money after it had been so collected. On this topic he would confine himself to a few facts, and would detain the House as little as possible by his observations upon them. He had no desire to prevent the Catholic Association from giving briefs to members of their own body. He did not quarrel with them for employing an agent in this country constantly occupied in the furtherance of their purpose. He did not quarrel with them for acts which merely impugned their discretion, and which had no operation on the general tranquillity. Nor would he enter into any consideration of the kind of regard which a society, professedly established for the security of the rights of the people, had shown for the liberty of the press. He did not quarrel with them for having retained as advocates a considerable portion of the press. He did not quarrel with them for having instituted prosecutions against that part of the press which was hostile to their cause. He did not quarrel with them for their union with Cobbett. He did not quarrel with them for expending the money of which they had drained the population of Ireland for such purposes; not because those purposes were unattended with serious evil, but because other acts of theirs were attended with evil so far exceeding in extent, that he should consider it unworthy of himself to detain the House for a moment on the points upon which he had just touched. It was the interference of the Catholic Association with the ordinary administration of justice of which he mainly complained [hear, hear!]. He knew perfectly well, that on that part of the case he should be met by arguments deduced from the recent existence of an Association in this country, instituted for the purpose of prosecuting offences against the well-being of society. He knew that an hon. and learned gentleman opposite was prepared to tell him, that what was legal in England must be legal in Ireland;

that what was fit to be permitted in the one country, must be fit to be permitted in the other. But he (Mr. G.) could show the House, that even where what was fit to be permitted in one country was fit to be permitted in the other, the course pursued by the Catholic Association in their interference with the administration of justice in Ireland, was followed by consequences which could not result from any similar proceedings in this country; by consequences fatal to the interests of peace and tranquillity; by consequences which sooner or later would, if that course were allowed to go on, render it impossible for any man in Ireland to obtain justice before any tribunal in that country. For these gentlemen were not content with exerting themselves to influence the administration of justice in its final decisions; they mingled, by themselves, or by their agents, with all the preliminary proceedings of the law. They sent down their agents to the courts of petty sessions, and poisoned the administration of justice at its outset, with all the bitterness of political discord. In this country it would be impossible to introduce party questions into a case of felony. The reverse was the fact in Ireland. There was no felony, no misdemeanor, which interference might not instantly render a party question. Before the courts of petty sessions the agents of the Association employed themselves in making statements, favourable to their objects, and calling on the magistrates, either to espouse the cause of the suffering Catholic against his Protestant adversary, or to shield the Catholic_ where the Protestant was the accuser. In all these cases, an endeavour was made to load the Protestant with the odium of crimes which he might or might not have committed; but the very endeavour prevented the trial from being fair and uninfluenced. If the system was allowed to continue, a court of petty sessions in Ireland would be rendered merely a theatre for the exhibition of the talents of a Catholic Associator; and the magistrates composing it would be perplexed with subtleties having nothing to do with the real merits of the cases before them. He spoke in the hearing of hon. gentlemen who well knew that such had already been the consequences of the interference of the Catholic Association with the administration of justice; and that several magistrates, most respectable, active, and impartial men, had been induced to retire from those courts in

which individuals deputed by the Catholic Association were present.

But, putting out of view the evils which arose in minor courts in consequence of the interference of the Association, he would proceed to call the attention of the House to what had taken place before higher tribunals. He would not trouble them with many cases; but there were one or two which would afford sufficient proofs of the existence of the evil. It happened about the end of last July that a statement was made in the Catholic Association respecting a supposed murder in the parish of Ballabay. It was declared, that a most unprovoked, brutal and wanton murder had been perpetrated by a Protestant on a Roman Catholic. A letter was published in some of the Irish papers, calling on the Catholic Association to interfere. When the subject came before the Association, that body emulated all the dignity of parliament. Mr. J. D. Mullen moved for the appointment of a committee to investigate the circumstances of the case; with authority to adopt such measures as circumstances might require. On Saturday, the 31st of July, the report of the committee was read, detailing the supposed circumstances, and stating that those circumstances called for the interference of the Association! and Mr. Cavanagh was in consequence appointed by the Association to conduct the prosecution. Here, then, was a man charged with murder going to trial with a declaration from the body representing the whole Catholic population, that they had investigated the facts, and that the result was, their conviction that the murder had been committed, and that the individual so charged ought to be prosecuted by the Association [hear, hear]. But, let the proceeding be pursued further. When the trial came on, a host of evidence swore to the infliction of a great many wounds on the deceased, and to the manifestation of the most horrid cruelty. Witness after witness declared upon oath, that the prisoner jumped on the throat of the deceased, kicked him in the spine, broke his ribs, &c. What was the fact? The surgeons who had examined the body, and who were brought forward by the prosecution, proved to the satisfaction of the court, that there was not a word of truth in all this previous evidence, and that the body had suffered no such violence. It appeared, that the deceased person sufVOL. XII.

fered in consequence of an accidental fall over a short post, which broke one of the small vertebræ of the back; and eventually the prisoner was acquitted. When the verdict of not guilty was pronounced, the judge even considered it his duty to address the prisoner to the following effect:-"I do not think it would be right to discharge you without expressing my entire satisfaction at your conduct. It is in evidence that you endeavoured to preserve the peace from being disturbed, and your efforts entitle you to great approbation." Yet this individual, not only innocent, but as it turned out meritorious, had been denounced a fortnight before by the Association as guilty of the great crime of murder; as having, he being an Orangeman, murdered a Roman Catholic; and a hostile feeling was thereby strongly excited against him.-It had been said by the hon. member for Midhurst, that if he admired any thing in the conduct of the Catholic Association, it was their interference with the administration of justice; for that the administration of justice in Ireland was so bad, that any interference with it must be productive of benefit. He hoped, however, that the hon. gentleman would allow that the interference which had just been described was not of a very advantageous character.

There were many circumstances connected with these transactions on which he would not trespass on the patience of the House by dwelling. Among others, it would be observed, that the greater part of the jurors before whom trials took place, were subscribers to the Catholic rent. lic rent. He might, perhaps, be excused for thinking that it would be better, instead of calling on such individuals to decide upon prosecutions instituted by those to whom the rent was paid, to leave the administration of justice to its natural course. The only other case with which he would trouble the House, was that of a soldier, who was tried in the county of Kildare, for administering unlawful oaths. In January last, it was announced to the Catholic Association, by one of their agents, that a private in the 25th regiment, had been discovered in the act of seducing several Catholics to take an oath, the obligation of which was, to kill all the Protestants, all the soldiers, and all the Orangemen; his object being, of course, to lay informations against them after having thus inveigled them. The Association declared, that the case was clearly one of

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But, there was another ground of alarm which struck him more forcibly than any he had yet adverted to. It was decided that the proclamation or address of the Catholic Association should be sent into the different parishes in the country, and read by each priest from the altar. This had been very generally done; and, if he wanted an additional argument to prove the extent and power of the Association, he had it in the fact, that they found a ready acquiescence on the parts of a great proportion of the Roman Catholic clergy thus to denounce their Protestant brethren. This circumstance carried the more weight, when they recollected, that it was the act of numbers of ministers of a religion which, however corrupt it might be considered to be, was founded on principles not widely different from our own, and which never could be supposed to inculcate such a precept. Notwithstanding this, however, the declaration was given to the Catholic people, and was left to work its way, and produce its natural effects on the minds of the ignorant and illiterate. Was it, then, to be wondered at, that a Society so formed, and so acting, should create anxiety and alarm? Was it possible that his majesty's government could avoid calling upon parliament to interpose in aid of their want of authority, and prevent the danger likely to arise, not only from political dissention, but also from religious collusion? It was impossible that, under such circumstances, much and serious alarm should not be felt in Ireland. He did not mean to say that that alarm had not been carried, in some instances, to a greater extent than was necessary; but, who could point out the limits to which an alarm, at first justified, was to extend? It was impossible to tell; and particularly when it spread in quarters where former disturbances and dissentions was still fresh in the recollections of the people. He might illustrate this part of his argument by quoting many cases. He should, however, confine himself to a few facts. The Society of United Irishmen, who assembled in 1791, had for their avowed object the attainment of Catholic Emancipation; but it was subsequently ascertained that their real object was revolution, and a separation of Ireland from this country. And yet there was this difference between that body and the Catholic Association, that the former did not levy money from the people. It did not employ counsel to hunt down a poor sol

dier, and point him out as a fit object for transportation. But, in one alleged object they agreed. The Catholic Association, with means more formidable, and with greater resources than the other, professed to seek only Catholic Emancipation.

Taking this view of the question, was there not cause for alarm? Was not the Irish government bound to call upon parliament to rescue the Irish people from a tyranny at once the most severe and the most odious? Before he stated to the House the nature of the remedy he was about to propose, he begged their attention to the consequences likely to ensue, in the event of parliament refusing to interpose its authority for the protection of those who were menaced by the Catholic Association. If they did refuse to interpose, was it not natural to suppose that the aggrieved parties would, in their own defence, enrol themselves also into an association [hear, hear! from the Opposition]? He repeated it-would they not feel bound to co-operate for their own protection? And this being once the case, could that House be insensible to the numerous evils which must of necessity ensue ? Were they to have these two bodies continually sitting in the sister country, disturbing its peace, and impeding the execution of every act of its government? If so, they would have in every prosecution the Catholic Association sending down counsel and marshalling evidence on the one hand, and its opponent association sending counsel and marshalling evidence on the other. Surely the House could not wish that the animosities existing between Catholic and Protestant should thus be kept alive, but rather that they should be at once and for ever buried in oblivion. Who could live in a country so agitated, so disturbed ? Who could bear to witness such a continuance of tumult and disorder as must necessarily take place, unless the cause of both was speedily and effectively put down? If hon. members conceded to him the existence of the evil, then they must agree with him as to the necessity of some remedy, and their only difference could be in its details.

He had yet one or two other observations to make with reference to other societies, before he came to the measure which he meant to propose. The House would recollect, that two years ago he had introduced a bill to prevent secret