Letter from the Hon. Edward P. Livingston to David Hosack, M. D.

DEAR SIR,

NEW-YORK, ApriN14, 1828.

I promised to communicate to you my recollections of the proceedings relative to the Erie Canal, whilst I was a member of the senate between July 1808 and July 1812, and to mention those gentlemen who were then most actively engaged in supporting the plans for its accomplishment. The public documents will inform you of the dates when the various relations and laws were passed; I will now briefly state some facts which they cannot furnish.

The report of Mr. Geddes in 1809 led the public mind more generally to think on this subject, and in 1810, Mr. Platt introduced his resolutions into the senate. Conflicting opinions and interests divided the legislature, and no doubt most of those who opposed any further proceedings were actuated by the purest and most patriotic motives, believing the whole project to be entirely visionary. My reflections, and some little knowledge acquired by a visit to Europe, induced me to think it wise to make the necessary surveys and examinations, and I had the honour of supporting with my best endeavours the resolutions above mentioned. The remarks I made drew from a venerable member the observation, that "the young men in that body would ruin the state, by involving it in a debt which we could never liquidate." The senate was then divided into three parties or sections, one called Clintonian, one Federal, and one consisting of those republican friends of Mr. Madison, with whom I acted. The support given to the resolutions by Mr. Platt, Mr. Clinton, and myself, and other gentlemen avowing different political connexions, shows that the measures proposed to be adopted were not to be decided by any spirit of party; and it was probably owing to this circumstance that those resolutions passed, and which I ever considered as a most important step towards ensuring the success of the undertaking. Whether General Lewis was a member of that session I do not recollect, and have not the journals

to refer to ;* he was, however, friendly to the canal, and particularly engaged in 1811, in forwarding the object.

A bill was brought in by Mr. Clinton in 1811, to which I was favourably disposed, but believe I was not present at its passage, having been called home by the death of an infant son, and was there detained by the illness and subsequent decease of my eldest.

To the commissioners who were first appointed, were added Chancellor Livingston and Mr. Fulton. With these gentlemen I frequently conversed on the subject of our internal navigation; and although they were much occupied with their steam-boats, and harassed by a powerful opposition and its consequences, yet they were not inattentive to the great enterprise. Chancellor Livingston was desirous that steps should be taken early to procure funds, and at his suggestion authority was given to make inquiries relative to a loan; and I well recollect his stating, that a large one could be obtained in Europe, at an interest not exceeding five per cent. and that we ought to secure it as all important to our success. He mentioned the name of the late William Bayard as affording the information, or able to effect the negotiations for obtaining the funds; and when the situation of affairs after that period rendered doubtful the progress of the work, I recollect Mr. Livingston saying, that if we did not want it, that the United States would gladly take it from us, particularly in case of a war, then very probable. At this period almost all Mr. Livingston's landed estates, and much of that belonging to General Lewis, were situated in the middle district, which went no further north than Greene and Columbia counties; still they hesitated not to support an undertaking promising great public good, though certainly detrimental to themselves. The difference to Chancellor Livingston I consider not less than one hundred thousand dollars.

Among the number of those with whom I frequently conversed on this subject, and with whom I was on very friendly terms of acquaintance, I may mention Gouverneur Morris, Thomas Eddy, and J. R. Van Rensselaer, in addition to those I have already named.

*General Lewis took his seat in the Senate in 1811.-D. H.

After the war and when a successor to Gov. Tompkins was to be chosen, the general voice of the west declared, that the question of being friendly to the canal or not, would be the most important one; and afterwards the union of that enterprising region with the north, and the support of its friends elsewhere, caused the great work to be completed.

When last a member of the senate, I voted for appropriations to complete it, and had the satisfaction of witnessing the entrance of the first boat into the waters of the Hudson, from the deck of one of our steam-boats, and within a short distance of the spot where, in 1807, I had landed in company with Mr. Livingston and Mr. Fulton.

I have said nothing of Mr. Clinton, as you are well acquainted with his proceedings relative to the canal. Allow me, however, to observe to you, that it afforded me pleasure when I could co-operate with him in public measures, and regret when a sense of duty called on me to oppose him. From his uncle, who was well acquainted with my father and grandfather, I had received the appointment of an aid-de-camp, with the rank of lieutenant-colonel, in 1801 ; and his being my senior by several years, and acting under more favourable circumstances, excluded the probability of collision. Yet among his political friends and admirers, have been my warmest opponents, who manifested their hostility even before I was in the senate. I do not know that any thing above stated will be new to you. I am happy, however, to have had an opportunity of mentioning the interest taken in the advancement of our internal improvements by one whom I am proud to acknowledge as my best friend and second parent; and as it was among the last acts of a useful life, I am convinced it will add to his other claims of a public benefactor.

With much regard, I am your obedient servant,

EDWARD P. LIVINGSTON.

To Dr. DAVID HOSACK.

When noticing the services of the late Chancellor Livingston, we naturally advert to those of his associate and friend, the late Robert Fulton, who, independently of his well known treatise on canal navigation, published in Lon

don as early as 1796, has also by his genius and enterprise applied to the canals of this state, largely contributed to direct the public mind to the measures which have been adopted, and which, to use his own language, are “to secure wealth, ease, and happiness to millions." In the preceding pages his correspondence with Mr. Gouverneur Morris, and with Mr. Gallatin, relative to the superior advantages of canals over roads, and the great revenue to be derived from them, has been already mentioned. Referring, therefore, to the admirable biography of Mr. Fulton by his friend Cadwallader D. Colden, the interesting tribute to his talents by Governor Clinton,* and the splendid eulogy pronounced upon his merits in the application of steam to the purposes of navigation by Mr. Morris,† we may, in the language of a spirited writer in the North American Review,‡ observe of Robert Fulton, that " among the enlightened friends of the canal policy of the state, he is a man whose name is identified with that of his country, whose inventions, valuable as they are, were only the earnest of what he contemplated, whose benefactions to his country will be celebrated by every American, as long as the Mississippi shall bear her floating palaces upon her bosom, or roll her rich tribute to the ocean.”

NOTE Z.-p. 102.

The circumstances which relate to the unsuccessful application made to the general government on the part of the state of New-York, for that assistance in the construction of the contemplated canals which the message of Mr. Jefferson, and the report of Mr. Gallatin, had led them to believe would be readily accorded, are well known. In the Memoir of Mr. Colden, in the Documents published by Mr. Haines, and in the Canal Documents published under the direction of the state, they are so fully detailed, that no further notice of them is called for in this place. But the attempt on the part of

* Discourse before the Academy of Arts.

† Inaugural Discourse before the New-York Historical Society.

the general government, to impose a tax upon the trade of the canal, and to compel those who conducted it to take custom-house licenses for that purpose, ought not to be forgotten.

In the language of Mr. Colden,* "we have yet one humble petition to make to congress. That having made our canals without their interference, they will be pleased to leave us to enjoy them; and that they will not sanction any such pretension, as was of late made by some of their revenue officers, that our canal-boats, traversing our hills and valleys, in an artificial channel made by ourselves, entirely within our own territory, hundreds of miles from the sea, and six or seven hundred feet above its level, were engaged in the coasting trade of the United States; that they must therefore take custom-house licences, and pay a tax to the general government. An act of congress has been passed, exempting boats employed wholly on the canals, from the necessity of paying this tax, yet the claim of a right to impose it seems to be reserved. But so long as any respect for state sovereignties remains, so long as the confederacy is considered of any value, and so long as there is any regard for the peace of the Union, it is hoped there will be no attempt to enforce this, or any similar claim."

The observations of Governor Clinton on this subject, contained in his message of 1825, and the remarks of General Tallmadge in his able and eloquent speech, delivered in the House of Assembly on the 8th of November, 1824, expose, in the most ample manner, the injustice of the measure proposed by

congress.

The following are the remarks of Governor Clinton on this subject.

I cannot pass over, in silence, the attempt which has been recently made to bring the boats navigating our canals, within the operation of the statutes for regulating the coasting trade of the United States, by requiring from such boats enrolment and license, and the payment of tonnage duties. The canals are the property of the state, are within the jurisdiction of the state, have been constructed by the state, and can be destroyed by the state. They have been made at its expense, after the general government had refused all participation and assistance. It cannot well be perceived how the regulation of commerce

* See his Memoirs, page 38.