Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir; I would not attempt to say that. Mr. SCHUCK. How many quarts did you load on B. & O. trains going to Elkins, in the first place? Mr. KOONTZ. I do not know that, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. Would you say it was 600? Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir; there were no 600 quarts. Mr. SCHUCK. Was it 500? Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. How many hundred were there? Mr. KOONTZ. I would not estimate; between 175 and 200 quarts. Mr. SCHUCK. That was what you started on the way to Elkins? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes. Mr. SCHUCK. Now you say you reached there with 150 quarts. Where did the other 25 or 50 quarts get to, if you were guarding that? Mr. KOONTZ. I did not tell the committee that. Mr. SCHUCK. You just told me that, didn't you? Mr. KOONTZ. I did not. I said I would say between 75 and 100. Mr. HICKEY. Two hundred. Mr. SCHUCK. You said between 175 and 200 quarts? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. That you started with in Clarksburg, didn't you? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. And you were the guard over them? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. And when you got to Elkins, you had 150 quarts. Mr. KOONTZ. I did not tell you that. Mr. SCHUCK. That is exactly what you said in your testimony, did you not? Mr. KOONTZ. I did not tell you that at all. Mr. FOSTER. You told me how many you broke first and how many you broke the second time and you said you had 150 quarts together. Mr. KOONTZ. I told you there were either 9 or 10 quarts in the first batch and I told you around 11 quarts in the second. Mr. FOSTER. And 150 altogether? Mr. KOONTZ. And we made an approximate amount, I told you, of right around 175 or 200 quarts. Mr. FOSTER. You told me you started with 150 quarts and we subtracted each time until there was left 129. Mr. KOONTZ. I said around that number, but I would not say it was 300 quarts or 200 quarts. Mr. SCHUCK. Will you tell us now what became of those other 25 or 50 quarts on the way to Elkins? Mr. KOONTZ. It went to Elkins. Mr. SCHUCK. You never made any return, did you, as deputy marshal, of the destruction of these 129 quarts? Mr. KOONTZ. I did not. Mr. SCHUCK. And there is no record in the marshal's office either then or now with reference to the destruction of these 129 quarts at Elkins? Mr. KOONTZ. I do not know that. Mr. SCHUCK. You never made any return to the marshal? Mr. SCHUCK. You did not have the order and yet you made the destruction? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. Don't you know and has it not always been your custom whenever you destroy liquor to make a return to the marshal's office? Mr. KOONTZ. Not always. Mr. SCHUCK. Haven't you done that right along and didn't you do it before that time? Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. What became of the gunnysacks, do you know? Mr. KOONTZ. I do not know. Mr. SCHUCK. What became of the liquor that was in the gunnysacks? Mr. KOONTZ. I do not know that. Mr. SCHUCK. You never destroyed that? Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. And you do not know anything at all about what became of it? Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir; I do not. Mr. SCHUCK. At the time that you were in this automobile in Clarksburg, you were sitting in the rear seat with Mr. Barrett? Mr. KOONTZ. I was. Mr. SCHUCK. And you and he were carrying on a conversation? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. You were not paying any attention to the conversation that Marshal Buchwold and Mr. Merindino were carrying on? Mr. KOONTZ. We were all talking to one another. Mr. SCHUCK. All the time that you were riding in that machine, the four of you were engaged in the same conversation? Mr. KOONTZ. It might not have been all the time, but practically all the time the four of us were talking. Mr. SCHUCK. And you say that no such conversation took place as that detailed by Chief Deputy Marshal Barrett here yesterday? Mr. KOONTZ. I do not know what his testimony was. Mr. SCHUCK. Didn't you hear it? Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. He said you told him at that time, while in that machine, that he asked you where you had gotten this liquor; that it came from Clarksburg and part of it went to Fairmont and part of it went to Elkins; that you drank some of it and you gave some of it to your friends; and that you expected some of it was still there. You did not say anything of that kind? Mr. KOONTZ. I did not. Mr. SCHUCK. Who took the gunnysacks? Mr. KOONTZ. They were brought up out of the cellar, but I do not know who moved them. Mr. SCHUCK. Weren't they on the B. & O. when you loaded them on the train? Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir. Mr. SCHUCK. Then they were lost between the Empire National Bank Building and the trip to the B. & O.? Mr. KOONTZ. They were left at the Empire Bank Building. Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir; they were not. I got on the wagon and went with Mr. Joyce to the B. & O. station with what liquor there was in those boxes, Mr. SCHUCK. You heard Mr. Joyce testify a little bit ago that he left this liquor in your possession, went to the B. & O. and found that he could not ship it until the next day and then he told you to take charge of it, did he not? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes. Mr. SCHUCK. What became of the liquor in the gunnysacks? Mr. SCHUCK. You did not pay any expressage, did you? Mr. KOONTZ. I do not think so. I think Mr. Joyce attended to all the express business. Mr. SCHUCK. You never handed in a bill for it anyway? Mr. HICKEY. About how much liquor was received annually while you were in the marshal's office? Mr. KOONTZ. I could not state that. I was a deputy at that point up there. Mr. HICKEY. A very large quantity, would you say? Mr. KOONTZ. There was quite a quantity when I came in under Mr. Smith. I came in in July and he went out I think in the February following. Mr. HICKEY. The liquor was usually destroyed in much the same way that this liquor was destroyed? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes, sir; whenever we would get through with a case, and court would adjourn, we would take this liquor and break it up, destroy it or pour it out. Mr. FOSTER. You are still the deputy marshal?, Mr. KOONTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. FOSTER. What was your business before you became deputy marshal? Mr. KOONTZ. I worked at construction work. Mr. FOSTER. Of what nature? Mr. KOONTZ. Grading railroads, sidetracks. Mr. FOSTER. How many years were you working at that? Mr. KOONTZ. I put in practically all my life. For a few years I was on the police force at Elkins. Mr. FOSTER. How many years were you on the police force? Mr. FOSTER. How many years prior to your appointment as deputy marshal, approximately? Mr. KOONTZ. Eight years, I believe. Mr. DYER. You have been serving now under two marshals? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes. Mr. DYER. Under whose recommendation were you selected in the first instance? Who recommended you to Mr. Smith who was then marshal? Mr. KOONTZ. The first intimation I had of anything about that was when Mr. Wilson, the president of the Elkins Trust Co., approached me on the subject. I was working for the Keeley Construction Co. at Clarksburg. He asked me how I would like to be deputy marshal. I told him I never gave it any thought, that I did not believe I would care about the position. He said there was an opening for a marshal at Elkins. He told me, I think, to see Mr. Baker; that he would probably give me some information. I told him I did not believe I desired the posiiton. He said, "Well, go up and see Mr. Baker." Anyhow, I knew Mr. Baker for several years. Mr. DYER. You mean Judge Baker? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes, sir; Judge Baker. I went up and shook hands with Mr. Baker and had a short talk with him. We did not talk over 10 minutes. Mr. DYER. Do you call him Mr. Baker? Mr. KOONTZ. I called him Mr. Baker then and call him Judge Baker now. Mr. DYER. Was he judge then? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes. Mr. DYER. Would you mind stating what your politics are? Mr. KOONTZ. I am a Republican. Mr. DYER. Appointed first under a Democrat? Mr. KOONTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. DYER. Are there any further questions of this witness? Mr. BYRER. Mr. Koontz, were you ever present on an occasion in the marshal's office in Elkins, during a summer term of court, in 1922, when Mr. Coffman, the clerk, Mr. Charley Welch, Mr. Russell Barrett, and Marshal Curry were there and when Mrs. Greer says she opened the door, or the door was standing open, she stopped and looked in and saw that Judge Baker was drunk, was in a grossly intoxicated condition and was using profane language? Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir, I was not there at any occurrence of that kind. Mr. BYER. Did such an occurrence ever take place in your presence? Mr. KOONTZ. It never did. Mr. DYER. Didn't she say Mr. Coffman was the one who was drunk? Mr. BYRER. She said Judge Baker. Mr. DYER. She said he was sitting on the desk, but she did not say that he was intoxicated, as I recollect it. Mr. BYRER. Were you ever present on an occasion of that kind when he showed any evidence of drinking or used profane language such as she could not repeat in court? Mr. KOONTZ. No, sir; I was not. Mr. BYRER. Did you ever in your life see Judge Baker under the influence of liquor? Mr. KOONTZ. I did not. Mr. BYRER. Have you ever, since you have been deputy marshal, during a term of court, seen him when he had been drinking liquor? Mr. KOONTZ. I have not. Mr. BYRER. That is all. TESTIMONY OF MR. CHARLES K. WELCH (The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) Mr. CONIFF. Mr. Welch, where do you live? Mr. CONIFF. What is your business? Mr. WELCH. Deputy United States marshal. Mr. CONIFF. How long have you been deputy United States marshal? Mr. WELCH. Since May 6, 1922. Mr. CONIFF. Mr. Welch, it has been stated here by Mrs. Greerdo you know Mrs. Greer? Mr. WELCH. Yes, sir. Mr. CONIFF. That at one time, in 1922, at Elkins, one night, after having attended a moving picture show, she went into the marshal's office and you, Buchwald, Koontz, Coffman, Curry, and Russell Barrett were there, and Judge Baker was present. My recollection is she said he gave some evidence of having been drinking and that he used profane language on that occasion, was boisterous, and there was noise in there. Do you recall that occasion, of being at Elkins and being in that marshal's office room one night? Mr. WELCH. Yes, sir. Mr. CONIFF. Will you state whether Judge Baker was present on such occasion and used boisterous language or profane language, or gave any evidence of having been drinking, or had anything to drink that night, to your knowledge? Mr. WELCH. He was there. He did not give any evidence of having been drinking or use any profane language I heard. Mr. CONIFF. What was going on there that night? Mr. WELCH. Why, we came down to the office in the evening, Mr. Buchwald and I, and Mr. Barrett, Russell Barrett, had a handful of change rattling it away, and in a draw of a desk found a couple of dice, and we were throwing the dice on the table there for the change, in what is called freeze-out, and I was imitating a darky boy in Wheeling throwing dice and was making a good deal of noise and hollering and cheering when I would make my point and really was making a good deal of noise. Judge Baker was there. I remember it well. He brought a basket of apples down for the boys, but the majority of the time Judge Baker and Marshal Buchwald was sitting out in the other room talking, but we boys were in the back office with the door into the hallway open and I was making most of the noise. Mr. CONIFF. Was any drinking there that night? Mr. WELCH. Absolutely not; not one drop. Mr. CONIFF. Did you see Mrs. Greer that night? Mr. WELCH. Oh, yes; wide open. Mr. CONIFF. Did Judge Baker give any evidence of drinking that night or take any drink to your knowledge? Mr. WELCH. No, sir. Mr. CONIFF. Did any of you? Mr. WELCH. No, sir; not one in that party. |