the Crown. So strong was this feeling, that he felt sure that if two men of equal merits were competitors for a professorship, the success of either would be generally imputed to the effect of political interest. The hon. Members for Kendal and Perth had said that the Government responsibility would prevent any abuse of this power. But where was this responsibility?"Talk about responsibility on the part of the Government in 1845," said the hon. Gentleman, 66 why the idea is absurd." True, they had their responsibility sometimes examined, and rather severely too, by the hon. Member for Shrewsbury. He was not then in his place. But Ministers ever resisted that hon. Gentleman's severe sarcasm and eloquent invective. How could the idea of Ministerial responsibility be entertained by orators of an inferior order, and perhaps in matters of minor moment? The notion of Ministerial responsibility he (Mr. M. O'Connell) pronounced a solemn joke. He should support the expurgation of the clause; and he recommended Government, if they wished to conciliate the people of Ireland, to make this concession. Mr. Sheil would take Trinity College as a perfect model, and would recommend it to the attention of Ministers on this occasion. In Trinity College the Crown appointed the Provost; the head was appointed by the Crown. What was the case with respect to the Fellows? That body, which was in the enjoyment of large emoluments and of elevated position, were not elected by the Crown, and they never had been. The benefits they conferred on the University and on the country were chiefly owing to the fair and impartial mode in which they were elected. During his whole collegiate career he had never heard the slightest breath of suspicion against one of their decisions. Their integrity was unimpeachable; but there was an efficient aid to its support-competition ensured purity. There were present, besides the examiners, many spectators during the time the trials were proceeding, and each of them was able to appreciate the accuracy or extent of the information displayed by the minor competitors. A race decided often by such narrow lengths provoked the keenest rivalry; and a proportionate confidence was reposed in the decisions of the judges. Why did not Government follow this example? All the objections which had been urged against the plan which had been suggested, applied with equal force in respect to Trinity College. In this institution competitors were found who actually devoted ten or fifteen years in the most intense study as a preliminary to the struggle for the honours and emoluments they had in view. Carry out this arrangement in the new Colleges, and better results might be expected. It would, besides, open up, he did not doubt, a large class of able men, who, without such a trial, would remain in obscurity. He recommended it also as a means of freeing the Government from the imputation of jobbing, which many would think was their design if they persisted in the present plan of vesting the appointment in the Crown. He had too much respect for many of the right hon. Gentlemen opposite personally, and far too strong a feeling of Parliamentary complaisance, to say outright all that might be passing in his mind with respect to their merits. The right hon. Baronet had referred to their responsibility to Parliament as a guarantee for the fair exercise of their prerogative. "Responsibility," said the right hon. Gentleman, is a favourite term with them. When the Post Office question came under discussion, the right hon. Baronet claimed exemption from scrutiny, on the ground of the responsibility of his office. When you placed Mr. O'Driscoll on the Bench, and made a man a Deputy Lieutenant who had been repeatedly convicted of acts. which, in another man, would have been visited with the penalties of the law, you then shielded your conduct under the plenary security, "responsibility of office." The fact is, your excuse is a mere idealism; your appointments in Ireland have been made in defiance of real responsibility. To stations on the Bench and in the Church you have preferred men in utter disregard of all these supposed restraints; and, looking at the mode in which your patronage has been dispensed, it is not such as to conciliate the people of Ireland, nor to warrant their reposing confidence in the responsibility about which you speak. Mr. Shaw: The right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Sheil), as well as the hon. Members who had preceded him, had referred to the fellowship examination in Trinity College, Dublin, as a precedent for opening the professorships under the present Bill to public competition. He (Mr. Shaw) entirely concurred in the value and excel warmly than an eminent Prelate who had been appointed by the Government with which the noble Lord was connected. He (Mr. Shaw) would feel it uncandid of him to sit down, without saying that while he supported the Government in that Bill, he did not agree with them in supposing that it would afford to the people in Ireland University education, properly so called. He considered that the present University having about 1,400 undergraduates, and supplying, he should say, about 300 annually with degrees, did as much in that way as was wanting, if not more than the learned professions demanded. The new Colleges, he expected, would be useful intermediate places of education, keeping in the country many who ought not to go up to the University at Dublin, and sending on those who were likely to distinguish themselves by their superior learning or ability. The gentry of all creeds, he was persuaded, would still continue to send their sons to Trinity College; and let him again remind the noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) that there all the advantages of education were as open to Roman Catholics as to Protestants; and that the governing body and foundation alone were, as they necessarily must be, of the Established Church, having lence of that systein of examination, for the purpose to which it was applied; but there it was the case of young men entering upon life after vast application and acquirement, and having their abilities and knowledge tested by the severest public competition. They were not generally much beyond the age of men taking a first-class degree at Oxford, or becoming senior wranglers at Cambridge; but how different the case of men advanced in years and distinction, and already at the head of their several professions, who could be hardly expected to submit to such public examinations, but, instead, would be driven from that species of competition, and their services lost to the institutions. While upon that point he would correct two erroneous statements that had been made with reference to the senior Fellows of Trinity College: one by the hon. Member for Waterford (Mr. Wyse), that night-in which, however, he had only followed others-that the incomes of the senior Fellows were above 2,000l. a year; whereas, they were not above 1,2001., with an average of about 3001. arising from other collegiate offices; and, let it be recollected, those were the great prizes of the College, after an average of thirty years spent as junior Fellows, and a long life devoted to the ser-been instituted as a Protestant Ecclesiasvice of the College. The other still greater error was committed by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Dungarvon (Mr. Sheil), in saying that the offices of the senior Fellows were sinecures. The answer had been given in his speech by Lord J. Russell thought that the questhe right hon. Gentleman himself; for he tion of the Dublin University required (Mr. Sheil) had stated--and that was in some further examination, because if, as addition to their management as the stated by the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Shaw), governing body of the entire discipline and that was the only University to which conduct of the University-that the senior young men of the highest classes would Fellows were the examiners in that most go, would it be fair that that University arduous of all examinations held annually should continue to bear its present exclufor fellowships; and he (Mr. Shaw) had sive character ? He was quite as ready as himself heard no less a man than Arch- any one to give to the opinion of his bishop Magee declare that it took him six hon. Friend the Member for Kendal all months hard reading every year to pre-the weight to which it was so justly enpare himself to examine at the fellowship titled; but he could scarcely go along with examination. He (Mr. Shaw) would not his hon. Friend in imputing to the Gothen discuss the question of Irish appoint-vernment a wisdom of decision little short ments with the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. of infallibility; and he felt the less disSheil); but he could not help observing, posed to subscribe to the doctrine of his in answer to the charge of the noble Lord hon. Friend when he recollected that the (Lord Ebrington), against bishops being greater part of the appointments made by appointed by the present Government who the present Ministers in Ireland had been opposed national education, that none of made in favour of a class of politicians them opposed it more conscientiously and who took the narrowest possible view of tical Establishment, endowed as such, and of which characteristic the University of Dublin could not be deprived without a total subversion of the express objects for which it was founded. the principles upon which Ireland ought Bishop Sandys and Bishop Dickenson. further consideration. As Bunbury, T. Lord J. Manners said, that as the House bad decided to proceed with the Bill, it only remained for those who objected to such a measure to use their best endeavours for the purpose of making it as little objectionable as possible. They were called upon to consider and decide whether the proposition of the Government or the Amendment of the right hon. Member for Waterford ought to be pre-Grimston, Visct. ferred. For his part, he was decidedly adverse to leaving these appointments in the hands of a majority of that House. He drew a broad distinction between that which gave power to the Crown to be exercised by the Queen, and that which gave power to the Ministers, who, in effect, were appointed by a majority of the House of Commons. The Committee then divided on the Question, that the words proposed to be left out, stand part of the Clause-Ayes 141; Noes 47: Majority 94. Halford, Sir H. Praed, W. T. Pringle, A. Smith, rt. hn. T. B, C. Spooner, R. Sutton, hon. H. M. Tennent, J. E. Tower, C. Wellesley, Lord C. Wortley, hon. J. S. Wortley, hon. J. S. TELLERS. Baring, H. "That previous to the first appointment of any rector, president, head of college, or professor under this Act, the Board of Education in Ireland shall have power to present three names to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland who must select one of the said persons to fill such office." He observed, that a Roman Catholic archbishop would necessarily be a member of the Board; a gentleman possessing the confidence of the Presbyterian body would also be connected with it; and the Government, to avoid all suspicion of reserving these appointments to themselves for purposes of patronage, ought to put them out of their own hands. He thought it most desirable that the Board of Education in Ireland, which possessed in so eminent a degree the confidence of the people of that country, should have the power of submitting the names of persons to fill the offices to which his Amendment referred to the Lord Lieutenant, though the actual appointment might be vested in the Crown. Sir J. Graham said, that on grounds he had before stated, he could not, consistently with his sense of duty, consent He to the hon. Baronet's Amendment. believed a large majority of the Members of that House entertained the opinion that the Government ought to have the power of recommending to the Crown the persons they deemed most competent to fill the offices to which the hon. Baronet's Amendment referred. He concurred in the statement of the hon. Baronet (Sir W. Barron), that the Board of Education in Ireland, as now constituted-comprising, as it did, members of the Established Church, Roman Catholics, and Presbyterians-possessed the confidence of the Irish people; but he doubted whether, if the patronage proposed by the hon. Baronet to be placed in the hands of that Board was assigned to it, the harmony now existing would be maintained. He (Sir J. Graham) could state that the Board would be most unwilling to undertake the duty which the hon. Baronet proposed to impose upon it; for he was assured that if this Motion should be adopted, more than one member of that Board would cease to hold any further connexion with it. He, therefore, entreated the House not to agree to the Amendment. Acland, Sir T. D. Acland, T. D. A'Court, Capt. Adderley, C. B. Aldam, W. Archbold, R. Baine, W. Baring, rt, hon. F. T. Baring, rt. hon. W. B. Barrington, Visct. Bateson, T. Bentinck, Lord G. Bernard, Visct. Boldero, H. G. Borthwick, P. Bowes, J. Bowles, Adm. Bowring, Dr. Boyd, J. Bramston, T. W. Brotherton, J. Bruce, Lord E. Buller, C., Bunbury, T. Cardwell, E. Carew, W. H. P. Christie, W. D. Clerk, rt. hon. Sir G. Clive, Visct. Clive, hon. R. H. Cockburn,rt.hn.Sir G. Colebrooke, Sir T. E. Corry, right hon. H. Courtenay, Lord Craig, W. G. Crawford, W. S. Cripps, W. Damer, hon. Col. Dawnay, hon. W. H. Denison, E. B. D'Eyncourt,rt.bn.C.T Douglas, Sir C. E. Duncombe, T. Duncombe, hon, A. Egerton, Sir P. Fitzroy, hon. H. Fremantle, rt.hn.SirT. Gardner, J. D. Gladstone,rt.bn.W.E. Grimston, Visct. Hamilton, C. J. B. Hamilton, J. H. Hamilton, G. A. Hamilton, W. J. Hamilton, Lord C. Hawes, B. Henley, J. W. Herbert, rt. hon. S. Holmes, hon. W. A'C, Hope, hon. C. Hope, G. W. Hotham, Lord James, Sir W. C. Jermyn, Earl Redington, T. N. Wellesley, Lord C. TELLERS. Lennox, Lord A. List of the NOES. Bouverie, hon. E. P. armed with that musket. Arrangements. were accordingly made for manufacturing 50,000 muskets every year, till there should be a sufficient supply. If this arrangement had been acted upon ever since, there would be upwards of 225,000 muskets in the hands of the Government. He should think this would be a sufficient store to meet any demand that could arise upon the breaking out of a war, both for the militia and the regular army. He should therefore like to know how many muskets had already been made, and whether there would be any necessity for a similar vote next year to the one now in the Estimates? Captain Boldero could not inform the noble Lord how many muskets there were now in store; but he could state that there were manufactured last year, and would be also this year, 40,000 stands of arms, besides swords and other weapons. Viscount Palmerston wished to ask the right hon. Baronet whether it was his intention in the course of the present Session to propose a vote on account of providing for the better defence of our dockyards, and with a view to the formation of harbours of refuge? It was perfectly well known that the dockyards were not defensible against any attack made by surprise by a force embarked in steamers. The improvements in steam navigation and the multiplication of steam vessels, Somerville, Sir W. M. had entirely altered the nature of attacks Manners, Lord J. Rawdon, Col. Browne, hon. W. Curteis, H. B. Dickinson, F. H. Ogle, S. C. H. Somers, J. P. Esmonde, Sir T. Wyse, T. Gore, hon. R. Hollond, R. TELLERS. against any defences that might be provided. This appeared to him to be a question of most urgent importance; and he wished to know whether the right hon. Baronet meant to allow the Session to The House resumed. Committee to sit pass by without establishing a better sysagain. SUPPLY-MUSKETS.] On the Report of the Committee of Supply being brought up, Viscount Palmerston wished to ask the right hon. Baronet, or the hon. and gallant Officer connected with the Board of Ordnance, what progress had been made in manufacturing muskets for the army upon the percussion principle? When the late Lord Vivian was Master of the Board of Ordnance, he took infinite pains to ascertain the best kind of musket for the use of the British army; and that manufactured on the percussion principle was considered the best, and it was determined that the whole army should be tem of defence for our dockyards, and also making provision for harbours of refuge? Sir Robert Peel said, that provision had already been made both in the Ordnance and in the Navy Estimates, for both those objects during the present year. He could not exactly state the details; but with respect to the dockyards at Sheerness, at Portsmouth, and at other places, there had been, both in the Ordnance Estimates. and in the Navy Estimates, sums voted, founded upon the Report of the Navy Commissioners appointed to inspect the dockyards. With respect to harbours of refuge, engineers had been employed at Dover and other ports along the coast; and (we understood the right hon. Baro |