tary system of allotments, and he cer-left out stand part of the Question tainly should resist any attempt to intro- Ayes 26; Noes 17: Majority 9. duce a compulsory system into his own parish. Lord Clements objected to the Bill. He considered that the adoption of the system of conacre in Ireland had been productive of a great portion of the distress which unhappily prevailed in that country. On the 5th Clause, which constitutes trustees for the administration of the field gardens, Mr. Collett objected to the officiating minister being appointed in that capacity, and moved that the words "officiating minister" be omitted. Mr. Stansfield thought that the whole Mr. Cowper resisted the omission, and success of the scheme depended upon its the Committee divided on the Question, being voluntary. He approved of the that the words stand part of the clause: principle of allotting garden fields; but it-Ayes 37; Noes 7: Majority 30. was most objectionable to adopt a system On Clause 14, of enforced charity. Mr. Milner Gibson hoped that the right Mr. Henley thought that the Bill held hon. Baronet at the head of the Governout expectations to the labouring classes ment would assist the Committee with his which it was certain never could be real-advice upon this Bill. The right hon. ized. He should support the Amend- Baronet the Home Secretary had lent every assistance in his power. The Bill before them he (Mr. M. Gibson) had every reason to believe was opposed by the ment. Mr. W. Cowper denied that the effects of the measure were such as had been described by the hon. and learned Mem-Poor Law Commissioners. They would do ber for Bath; on the contrary, all experience showed that the result of the system, wherever it was adopted, was to ameliorate the condition of the labouring classes; and its tendency, so far from lowering wages, was to increase them. Complaints had been made that there was a compulsory interference with the landowners; now it was notorious that in many parts of the country the labourers were most anxious to obtain allotments of land, but they could not get them from the landowners; therefore, the voluntary system in such districts would be perfectly inoperative. It should be recollected that this was not to be a gift on the part of the landlord, but the full value was to be paid for the land. but little good to the poor by the allotment system. The right hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) was not present at the early part of the night's proceedings, and the legislation of the Committee had partaken of a romantic and sentimental character, and his advice would be very seasonable. He did not think the right hon. Baronet would consent to the introduction into this country of a system which would reduce the labouring people of this country to a condition similar to that of a large portion of the Irish population. Let the right hon. Baronet give his advice now, and not by his silence, perhaps, hold out expectations to the hon. Member for Hertford (Mr. Cowper), which expectations might, after all, never be realized. Sir R. Peel thought, that it would be premature for him to discuss, now that the Bill was in Committee, whether or not it was desirable that it should finally Mr. Newdegate rather concurred with the hon. Member for Rochdale, who wished to give the labourer some degree of independence, than with those who desired to keep him in a condition of entire sub-pass into a law. He had consented to servience. The Committee divided on the Question, that the Chairman report progress :Ayes 19; Noes 42: Majority 23. Mr. Henley moved, that the qualification of the wardens should be their being rated to the poor 107. Mr. Cowper objected to the Amend ment. Mr. Wakley said, he would support the original proposition. The Committee divided on the Question, that the words proposed to be the Bill going into Committee, under the impression that the views of the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Cowper) were pure and benevolent in undertaking to bring in a Bil which he thought would conduce to the welfare and comfort of the labouring classes; and these views entitled the Bill to a favourable consideration, in order to ascertain whether it could not be brought into a shape which would make it consonant with the public interests. He (Sir R. Peel) was not prepared to apply to the rural population of this country those the hon. Gentleman would now give his principles of political economy which many hon. Gentlemen were disposed to do. He thought that giving the labouring classes small allotments of land might conduce to their welfare and comfort. If they found that the possession of a small quantity of land conduced to the immediate happiness and welfare of these classes, he was very much disposed to look to the immediate practical benefits which would accrue, rather than to the remote tendencies which political economy was disposed to attribute to such a system. He thought that such was the principle on which most landed proprietors practically acted on this question; and if they found that the labourer, by cultivating his small piece of ground, could supply his family with some of the necessaries of life, what the tendency of that might be a hundred years hence he did not know; but they would find that, during their lives at least, they would promote the happiness of the labouring poor, wean them from degraded habits and from vice, and very much, in other respects, add to their welfare. Should the Bill pass through Committee, he should For the remainder of the evening, the be sorry afterwards to find that considera- House was engaged with the Lunatic Asytions of public interest should arise to pre- lums and Pauper Lunatics Bill, which went vent its passing, and he hoped that hon. through Committee, and with other busiGentlemen would not now throw any im-ness which occasioned no debate. pediment in the way of perfecting the measure as much as possible. Mr. Bright said, that the voluntary system of arrangement would do all the good which was expected to accrue from the allottment system, without doing any of the evils which he thought that system would introduce. He did not see how the hon. Member for Hertford could persevere with this Bill, and try to carry it through a third reading. It could not, by any possibility, be put into action; and if it passed the House, it would to all intents and purposes fall as dead as if it had been thrown out upon the third reading. Mr. Cowper said, that in parishes where it was wanted, the Bill would be put in force. Where it was not wanted, it would not be enforced. Mr. Wakley thanked the right hon. Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment for the manner in which he had assisted in this matter. The hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. M. Gibson) made an appeal to the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, and he had got his answer, and he hoped the hon. Gentleman was satisfied. He hoped also that The House adjourned at two o'clock. 3a and passed:-Granting of Leases; West India Islands Private.-1 Bermondsey 1mprovement; Forth and 2. Glossop Gas; Shepley Lane Head and Barnsley Road. 3 and passed:-Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway (Cumnock Branch); Manchester, Bury, and Rossendale Railway (Heywood Branch); Whitehaven and Furness Railway; Eastern Union (Bury St. El mund's) Railway; Dundalk and Enniskillen Railway; Two first Resolutions carried. The North Woolwich Railway; Guildford Junction Railway: third postponed. Winwick Rectory; Huddersfield and Manchester Railway and Canal. PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Lord Polwarth, from Legisla tive Council of New South Wales, for the Better Regula tion of the Local Taxation of the Colony; and from Shareholders and others of City of Sydney (New South Land, etc. BANKING (IRELAND) BILL.] The Earl of Ripon, in moving that the House do resolve itself into a Committee on the Banking (Ireland) Bill, said, that the measure was so nearly identical with the Scottish Banking Bill, that he should not upon that occasion trouble them with any lengthened observations; and still less would it be ne RAILWAY AND OTHER BILLS.] Lord Brougham, in moving the Order of the Day for taking into consideration the Re-cessary for him to state in detail the solutions of which he had given notice, said, he had to inform their Lordships, that upon the subject of the Resolutions which he submitted to their Lordships on Tuesday last, a most satisfactory conference had taken place with the Committee of the House of Commons; and it was found that that Committee had resolved to report to the other House of Parliament seven Resolutions which were entirely in accordance with the terms of the three Resolutions which he had proposed for their Lordships adoption. His Lordship then moved the Resolutions, with Amend ments: "1. That in all future Sessions, after any Road or Canal or Railway or Dock Bill shall be read a First Time, and before any further Proceeding thereupon, there be deposited in the Office of the Clerk of the Parliaments a Statement of the Lengta and Breadth of the Space which is intended or sought to be taken for the proposed Works, and to give up which the Consent of the Owners of the Land has not been obtained; together with the Names of such Owners, and the Heights above the Surface of all proposed Works on the Ground of each such Owner. grounds upon which the measure rested. Thus much, however, he might say, that it was intended to give the Bank of Ireland privileges, as regarded issue, somewhat similar to those enjoyed by the Bank of England. The Bill which he now moved should be committed, was one that he had no doubt would prove highly advantageous to the joint-stock banks at present existing in Ireland; and he must say, that those establishments appeared to him to be eminently entitled to the support of the Government and of the Legislature, for they had conferred great benefits upon Ireland. With respect to the connexion subsisting between the Bank of Ireland and the Government, it was only necessary for him to say that such dividends on the public debt as were paid in Ireland should continue to be paid by the Bank of Ireland; and as regarded the interest which the Government paid to the Bank for the amount of its capital in the hands of the Government, that would be reduced to 3 per cent. The effect of the Bill, he hoped, would be to promote objects that the Legislature must be most anxious to promote, namely, commercial enterprise, and a development of the resources of Ireland by the extensive introduction of capital. The Marquess of Clanricarde said, that the Bill was founded upon sound principles, and, on the whole, would be likely to beneficial to Ireland. prove But, with re "2. That a Return shall also be presented at the same Time of the Names of the Owners or Occupiers of any Houses situated within Three hundred Yards of the proposed Works, who shall have, before the Thirty-first December preceding the Introduction of the Bill into Parliament, deposited written Objections to the said Railway with the public Officer appointed to receive the Plans of the said Rail-spect to the Bank of Ireland, it was only of way within the Parish or Township in which late years that it could be said really to distheir Property is situate; or, if the Railway charge those functions which the public had should not be proposed to be carried through a right to expect from that establishment. that Parish or Township, in the one through Between the years 1814 and 1824, the which the Railway is to pass in the Manuer manner in which the Bank of Ireland did objected to by the above-mentioned Parties. business was so inconvenient, and towards the merchants of Dublin so unfair, that it became necessary to establish the Hibernian and the Royal Banking Companies; and he hoped that Her Majesty's Government would see the necessity and the justice of allowing those banks to circulate notes on the same security as the other "3. That where any Party or Parties have appeared and contested any such Bills at the Bar or in the Committees of the House, it shall be lawful for the House or Committees, if in their Discretion they shall think fit, to direct the Expenses of such Party or Parties to be paid by the opposite Party promoting the Bill." banks. Those banks had been conducted | moving the Second Reading of this Bill, on the soundest and best principles; they stated that the object of the measure was to had conferred great benefit upon the trad-remedy certain existing defects in the admiing community, and had reaped consider-nistration of the Criminal Law, which the able profit from their mode of dealing. Judges had experienced in the execution of The only objection against this proposal their duty. One of the chief of these was, was, that an Act had passed last year put- that in many cases where a less severe puting a stop to further issue in the United nishment than was enacted by Statute would Kingdom; but that Act really applied only answer the ends of justice, the Judge was to the banking transactions of Great Bri- wholly without any discretionary power tain, and there was only one phrase in it of mitigating the penalty. Thus, where which could be construed to extend the transportation for life was the punishment provisions to Ireland. The case of these affixed to an offence by Statute, the Judge two banks was one of extreme hardship; was bound, if the party was convicted, and he trusted the Government would al- to pass sentence of transportation for low the introduction of a clause giving to life, though he might very often be of op:them, as well as to other banks, the benefit nion that a milder sentence would be of of breaking up the monopoly of banking in adequate severity. In some cases a part of Ireland. He would not move any specific the sentence was remitted upon subsequent proposition in Committee; but if the Go- application to the Secretary of State; but vernment refused to entertain the prayer where mitigation was required, it was fit of these banks, he should feel it his duty and proper that the court which tried the to move a clause on a future stage of the individual should be the authority that was Bill. to apportion the measure of punishment. There were two other objects proposed by this Bill: one was to correct certain defects in the Central Criminal Court, rendering it necessary for the party to give recognizances, as was now required before he went before the Grand Jury, which had been found attended with considerable inconvenience in practice. Again, as the matter now stood, after a writ of certiorari had been moved in the Court of Queen's Bench, the venue became no venue at all when the case was brought into the Superior Court; and it must be tried in some county, for the fictitious venue of the Central Criminal Court had ceased to have any value. To obviate this inconvenience, it was provided by the Bill that the writ of certiorari must always state where the trial was to take place, and the Sheriff was to be empowered to empanel a jury. With respect to another provision of the Bill, he was not quite satisfied with it as it stood at present, nor was his noble and learned Friend behind him. Very serious offences were often committed, short of felony, but accompanied with maliguity, such as aggra Lord Monteagle did not wish to refuse his assent to the general principles of the measure; but there were some points to which he wished the Government would direct their attention. He approved of the joint-stock banking principle, if it were carefully managed, while the number of branches made a central superintending authority to control their issues more necessary. He would most earnestly advise those engaged in the joint-stock banks of Ireland to pause before they incurred the additional risk of a metropolitan circulation. He thought the Government would act wisely and justly if they allowed the Hibernian and National Banks to have the power of issue. When they conceded the power of metropolitan issue to other banks, he thought they could not fairly refuse it to two banks of the most undoubted capital and respectability. As they had prohibited fractional notes, he recommended to the Government to provide a sufficient supply of silver. The Earl of Ripon said, with respect to the silver currency, it was a matter to be taken into consideration by the Govern-vated assaults, breaches of trust, &c. These ment, with a view to make provision against any inconvenience being suffered by the labouring classes from the want of it. House in Committee. Bill reported without Amendment. ADMINISTRATION OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL-LORD DEN MAN.] Lord Denman, in the law comprised under the head of misdemeanors, and there was at present no power of adding solitary confinement or hard labour to the term of imprisonment provided for them. So that in one class of offences this additional punishment might be awarded; but other offenders, who were far more deserving of punishment, might escape it. In cases of assault, perhaps, of would the noble Earl opposite wish to be subjected to the temptation of having such a man at the mercy of justice, with the tremendous power of giving him three years' imprisonment, with hard labour and solitary confinement, while his offence might only call for a very slight punishment in itself? He thought the discretionary power, therefore, ought clearly not to be a very aggravated nature, it often happened that the public were disappointed to see the party escape with the punishment of an assault of the most ordinary kind, and this from the want of some more particular definition of what were to be considered aggravated cases. He did not know how a more particular description could be given, or how it would be possible to prevent the evil of inadequate punishment, but by leav-left to the quarter sessions. Was it to be ing a discretionary power to the Judge, to be exercised upon a consideration of all the circumstances of the case. If, however, any noble Lord was prepared to point out a better mode of securing the end, there would be ample opportunity of taking the subject into consideration when the Bill had been printed. He should be disposed to suggest that this discretionary power should be confined to the Superior Courts. The Lord Chancellor : I am satisfied of the propriety of that. Lord Denman was still open to hear of any method by which the purpose might be more conveniently effected. Some discretion must be exercised in almost all cases; and that could only be upon a view taken by the Court at the time of all the circumstances of the offence. He hoped their Lordships would give this Bill a second reading. With re Lord Campbell highly approved of the three clauses to which his noble and learned Friend first referred; and any one who read them must say that they were great improvements on the present law. spect to the second section of this Bill, however, he entertained the most serious objection to it. As it now stood, any person convicted before any tribunal of an assault, was liable to be imprisoned for three years; he might be held to hard labour during the whole of that time, and sentenced to solitary confinement for a period to be determined by the court. What was an assault? If a man held up his fist in the face of another within striking distance, that was an assault. To leave such a punishment at the discretion of the judge was, he thought, hardly consistent with the spirit now pervading the administration of criminal justice in this country. See what the consequences might be. Inferior magistrates might suppose that they were bound to give the maximum of punishment. In a game case, for instance, where a notorious poacher, who had been several times convicted, was indicted at the quarter sessions for an assault or other misdemeanor, allowed at the assizes? If not, it would be quite inoperative. But there not only did the Queen's Judges administer justice, but Serjeants, Queen's Counsel, and others, to whom, however anxious they might be to do their duty, he would be extremely reluctant to leave this tremendous discretion. Yet it would be very invidious to say that it should belong to the Court of Queen's Bench, and not to the noble Earl, the President of the Council, for instance, sitting in quarter sessions. On these grounds he should certainly think it his duty to move that the clause be struck out. Lord Denman suggested that assaults to which the higher penalty was to be allotted, might be described as assaults" with intent to commit a felony." be found for them which could be inserted Lord Campbell said, a definition might in the indictment. had introduced into the other House the The Earl of Devon, as the person who Bill on which rested the power of committing with hard labour, felt that the class of cases to which this punishment was to be made applicable, should be strictly defined. Lord Brougham agreed with his noble and learned Friend in thinking several of the clauses great improvements on the present law; his only doubt was as to the provision alluded to respecting assaults. He would suggest that the definition of offences which were to be vested with the severer penalty might be, "all attempts to commit felony, and all assaults accompanied by such attempt." At all events, there could be no doubt that the words should not be left as they now stood, making a common assault, without the attempt, liable to be punished in this way. The Earl of Stradbroke denied that there would be any disposition, in a court of quarter sessions, to punish offenders against the game laws with the extreme severity conjectured by the noble and learned Lord opposite. |