vernment to put an end to the disturbances between the two great parties in Syria, the Druses and the Maronites, and also the papers relating to the claims of the Emir Beschir? Sir R. Peel had no objection to lay on the Table a continuation of the Papers relative to the state of Syria; but as a considerable time had elapsed since the last correspondence was produced, some little delay would take place in the publication of some portions of that correspondence. He, however, could lay on the Table at an early period, that portion of it, which related to the Emir Beschir, and the noble Lord would probably have an opportunity of seeing it in the course of a few days. With respect to the other question put by the noble Lord, he thought considerable inconvenience might result to the public from the publication of the evidence referred to; and, therefore, he could not consent to its production. BANKING (SCOTLAND) BILL.] On the Motion of Sir R. Peel, the House went into Committee on the Scotch Banking Bill. On Clause 8 being proposed, Mr. F. Maule proposed an Amendment to the effect, that the bankers be allowed to amend their Returns of circulation. drawing on the Bank of England. He did not believe that the Scottish banks ever drained the Bank of England, and should be glad to be enlightened, if the fact were otherwise. Sir R. Peel said, that when trade was good and speculation rife, there was generally a tendency to issue an increased quantity of paper where facilities existed. For a certain limited time the value of the paper would be kept up; but when a period of depression came, it would be incumbent to convert notes into gold; that could only be done by a sale of securities and obtaining gold, of which the only receptacle was the Bank of England. These remarks applied to the banks of Scotland, and were also equally applicable to the provincial banks of England. The value of the whole currency would be diminished; and it would soon be discovered that paper was issued to excess, and with such a simultaneous demand for gold from Scotland and England upon the Bank of England, great inconvenience would result, and commercial transactions generally would be greatly restricted and impeded. It was, therefore, sound policy to place some restrictions on the issue of notes. Mr. Williams thought, that in justice to the measure that had been passed last year, the Government were bound not to afford any greater facilities for the issue of paper money in Scotland or in Ireland. He re The Chancellor of the Exchequer opposed the Motion, on the ground that it was identical in substance with one nega-membered when the Bill of 1814 was retived on Friday. Mr. Hume supported the Amendment, and protested against any interference with the Scotch currency. Sir R. Peel was much disappointed at the manner in which the measure had been received. He certainly had thought that the right hon. Gentleman opposite would have seen, in his (Sir R. Peel's) exposition of this measure, a desire not to alter, but to preserve within safe limits, the system of Scotch banking. Amendment withdrawn, and clause agreed to. On Clause 10, Mr. Hume understood, that the right hon. Baronet had determined not to make any alteration in the currency of Scotland; and he could not, therefore, allow this clause to pass without opposition. All he wanted was an explanation of the measure. If it was good it should meet with his support. The right hon. Baronet had stated that he wanted, in case of an overflow of paper money, to guard against the Scottish banks enacted in 1826, after it had been partly repealed in 1822; so far as regarded the circulation of one pound notes-he remembered the threat of the Scotch bankers on that occasion. They said, that they had an immense amount of property in the funds, and they would dispose of that property and get the amount in gold, and put the Bank of England in difficulty. That threat prevented the Government from suppressing the issue of one pound notes in Scotland. It was said that there were no failures in the Scotch banks. He remembered several failures. A short time ago, in consequence of the failure of a bank near Paisley, there existed the most intolerable distress, when the Paisley manufacturers were obliged to apply for charity. Mr. Hawes denied that the Scotch circulation was sustained during the time of the greatest drains by drawing on the Bank of England. Clause agreed to. Clause 13-which enacted, that if the monthly average of bank notes of any banker should at any time exceed the amount which such banker was authorized to issue, such banker should, in every case, forfeit a sum equal to the amount by which the average monthly circulation should have exceeded the amount which such banker was authorized to issue-was then put. Mr. P. M. Stewart considered this clause to impose a tremendous penalty. He wished to modify it. Supposing one, two, or three banks in Scotland issued short of the amount which they were by law permitted to issue, he would permit other banks to issue in excess to the same amount that those banks issued short. This would be the means of keeping up the full amount of circulation within Scotland, which, according to the Returns, would not be less than 3,061,000l. The Amendment he wished to propose would, therefore, by no means militate against the principle of the Bill. It had been objected that the difficulty of ascertaining the amount of issues by each banker would render his proposition impracticable. He did not think so. Nothing could be more easily carried into practice, if the House would adopt the principle. Supposing any bank or banks should discontinue business, and the remaining banks were not allowed to increase their issues, the object of the Bill, in wishing to maintain a circulation of 3,061,000l., would not then be carried out. He would therefore propose, that the following Proviso be added at the end of Clause 13: "Provided always, that such banker shall not be liable in such penalty, unless the aggregate amount of such monthly circulation of all the bankers in Scotland shall exceed the aggregate amount of the average circulation of all the banks in Scotland to be taken in manner herein provided." Sir R. Peel: The hon. Gentleman talked of a tremendous penalty; but the penalty would be consequent on the amount of excess of issue; therefore, if the excess of issue should be small, the penalty would be small; and if great, the penalty great. What was done in the case of the English banks? Joint-stock banks in England were prevented from combining; but it was permitted in Scotland for any two or more banks to combine; and the aggregate amount of the issues of those banks so combined, was to be certified by the Commissioners. In case, however, there should be any excess in the circulation of any one bank, it was to be liable to a penalty, the amount of the penalty to be in proportion to that excess. According to the Amendment proposed, every bank would be at liberty to extend its issues in proportion to the deficiency of the issues of other banks; but how were the bankers individually to know whether there would be an excess or a deficiency upon the permitted sum to be issued? Each banker would be trying to take advantage of any supposed deficiency of issue by other banks, in order to push out their own notes. How could they foresee whether the amount issued in the next month would be below or above the amount of their own return? Each banker would have to speculate upon this. Unless, therefore, with some such provision as that which this clause embodied, how could the system of banking in Scotland be established upon any principle? The hon. Gentleman (Mr. P. M. Stewart) had put a case that he supposed might arisenamely, that the issue of bank notes in Scotland would fall below 3,061,0001.; but, by permitting the union of banks in Scotland, effectual precaution would be taken against there being any such diminution. He did not think the case at all likely to arise; and, therefore, he was decidedly opposed to the Amendment of the hon. Gentleman. Mr. E. Turner thought that the banking measure in England had had the effect of making the work less profitable, but more comfortable, to bankers; and if there should be a consequent and ultimate falling off in the amount of issues, the question must be reconsidered, not only with respect to Scotland, but also with reference to England and Ireland. Mr. P. M. Stewart replied, that he considered the plan proposed was perfectly practicable. He would put the case of thirty customers coming to a young bank from the old bank. The old bank would decline to make issues to the same extent as formerly, because they would be unnecessary; but the other bank to which the customers went would require an increased circulation. This might be allowed; and yet the whole circulation of Scotland would be kept within the present limits. The only reason against his proposal was, that the amount of issue would be a matter of speculation; but he had received evidence that it might be securely allowed; the banks of Edinburgh and Glasgow would understand every week, whether one bank wanted more or less, and the individual Amendment negatived. Clause to stand part of the Bill. Remaining clauses and schedules of the Bill agreed to. House resumed. Bill to be reported. BANKING (IRELAND) BILL.] On the Motion, that the House go into Committee on the Banking (Ireland) Bill, returns would be regulated accordingly. I continual exchange of notes among the The hon. Member for Truro said that the various bankers, it was in their power to English law had rendered banking less force up the circulation. There was anoprofitable, but more comfortable; as the ther point which had given great offence notion came from the Land's End, it was and caused much alarm in Ireland. It evidently far-fetched. He would like to was supposed to be necessary for them, by see the English measure tried in fair and the provisions of this Bill, not only to hold in foul weather, before he gave an opinion in their coffers a sovereign for every 17. upon it; but in Scotland, the proposed note they issued beyond the amount allow. measure would prove detrimental, not only ed by their average circulation, but they to the bankers, but to the landed and in- were required to hold, in fact, 37. for every dustrial people of Scotland; and the land- such 17, note. This was caused in conselords and farmers of that country would quence of the number of branch banks at not live long before they found where the each of which their notes were made paypinch was. able, and not, as in Scotland, at the head office only. The consequence of this was, that a supply of gold must be left at each branch as well as at the head office; and the Irish bankers wished that the gold so left in their different branches should be counted by the Government, as being part of their stock of bullion. But the Government objected to that request, that they could not send persons round to the difMr. Ross was sorry to occupy the House, ferent branches to take the amount of gold but he wished that farther time were al- in their possession. This might be inconlowed for consideration of this measure.venient for the Government; but it would All classes and all parties in the north be much more inconvenient for the banks, of Ireland were satisfied that the enact-if the other system were carried out, and ment of the Bill, in its present form, would be exceedingly detrimental to the prosperity of that country. As it was now framed, the Bill was more detrimental than as it was originally proposed. There had been no opposition, at least no clamor-year, at an expense of 240,000l. ous opposition, raised against it; because was an indication of the spirit of commerthey took for granted that no material cial enterprise in the north of Ireland; alteration would be made in the Bill. He and if this Bill were delayed for a few complained of the mode in which the ave-years longer, he was confident, judging rages were to be struck. They were confined to the circulation of 1844; but it appeared that the circulation in the month of April, 1845, had considerably increased above April, 1844; so that the effect of this measure would be to check the rapidly increasing circulation of Ireland. Then the right hon. Baronet had assigned as a reason for adopting a different method of taking the English averages, as compared with the Irish and Scotch averages, that the latter parties had been warned of his intention to regulate their issues; while the announcement of the measure affecting the English banks came upon the English bankers like a clap of thunder. Now, what did that statement imply but a charge against the Irish and Scotch bankers, that they had combined together to force up the circulation; and he denied that they had done so, or that, from the productive of serious injury to the country. To show the prosperity of Ireland at the present time, he might mention that 60,000 spindles for spinning flax had been erected in Belfast alone, within the last This from past years, that the average circulation of the country would be much increased. Then there was an omission in the Bill, which he thought ought to be supplied. The notes of the Bank of England were not a legal tender in Ireland; and it would be desirable, on many accounts, that the notes of the Bank of Ireland should be made a legal tender. This would not be of any advantage to the Bank of Ireland; but it would be convenient to the other Irish banks to have a supply of these notes at a time when their stock of gold was withdrawn. He would not detain the House longer, as there were other hon. Members from Ireland anxious to speak on this question; he wished there were more of them. He wished the Gentlemen who attended in another place would come over to this House, and attend to Irish interests; but if they chose to sit in Conciliation Hall, hatching the fate of empires, they could not expect that the House would bestow much attention on their interests. tion from the banks which they now obtained, he might mention that formerly the poor tenants were constrained, by sheer necessity, to sell their wheat before consequence of the accommodation they obtained from the bankers, they never sold at below 25s. He would, therefore, urge upon the Minister the necessity of conti banking system to the poorer class of tenants, and of allowing the circulation of the country to expand with the increasing prosperity of Ireland, Colonel Conolly said, that at the pre-Christmas at 15s. per barrel; but now, in sent moment, no one could deny that the circulation proposed in the Bill would be sufficient for the wants of Ireland; but though he might be charged with being a prosperity monger, and indulging in Uto-nuing the accommodation of the present pian visions as to the prospects of Ireland, yet he must state, that the events of last year justified the assertion that a limited circulation would be injurious to the prosperity of Ireland. It was shown by the Sir R. Peel: Sir, I wish I could imReturns before the House, that the circu- press upon the Representatives of Ireland lation of Ireland had increased one million some portion of the strong conviction I within the last year: and it was further feel in my own mind that I am proposing shown that this had arisen from no parti- a measure most intimately connected with cular stimulus to industry, but that it had the growing prosperity of Ireland. There arisen from a general improvement in the is no country on the face of the earth industry and cultivation of the country. which will derive a greater advantage He found that the imports of Belfast and from a sound system of banking and a Derry had extended in a way that was not stable system of government. There is to be described; and this improvement was no country on the face of the earth which general with all the ports along the coast; has suffered more evils from a bad and and this prosperity, he trusted, would be imperfect system of banking than Ireland. permanent, and would call forth a still I have had personal experience of this at more extended circulation. He, therefore, the time of my official connexion with that trusted he could elicit from the Minister country; and I say there were then cases of the day some sort of a declaration, that of extreme distress in the south and west along with the expanding energies of Ire- of Ireland, arising from the simultaneous land, provision should be made for an in- failure of almost all the banks in that porcreased circulation. The imports of Dub- tion of Ireland-cases of the most heartlin had increased nearly one-half during rending distress to individuals, as well as the past year, and this was legitimately of injury to the general interests of the derived from the general improvement of country. I will refer the House to an exthe country. He might also add that an tract with regard to the failure of banks increase had taken place in the wages of from the Report of the Committee of Irish labour. He had left Kildare last month; exchanges, which sat in 1804. At that and he found, that in consequence of the period there were fifty registered banks, I proposed railway there, the wages of the but they all failed; and their failure, I labouring classes had been raised two know personally, led to the most fearful pence in the shilling. These, he consi- distress. I never saw such wide spread dered, were all reasons why the circula- distress as was caused by the failure of tion of Ireland should not be restricted, those banks in Ireland. There were then lest the growing prosperity of that only private banks, but recently joint-stock country should be checked. He com- banks have been erected. Well, but what plained, that by the proposed Bill, the is the first advantage which I propose to banks were only to obtain credit give to the bankers of Ireland by this for the amount of bullion which they held Bill? We propose to apply to Ireland that at the head establishment. Then, with principle of the convertibility of paper into regard to the advantage of banks to agri-gold, without which no banking system culture, he might mention that for six months there was hardly a dealing with the banks by the Irish farmers, and for other six months the pressure upon the banks by them was very severe. To show the injury which would accrue to agriculture if they did not get the accommoda can be securely carried on; and we make this quite certain, if the bankers of Ireland conduct their affairs with ordinary prudence they will incur no risk whatever. What occurred in 1837? There was then a bank existing called the "Agricultural Bank" in Ireland. It was a joint-stock bank. It issued its notes and kept pro- | land. Well, I am going to relieve the mising to pay in gold. A pressure came, banks of Ireland from the constant necesand every branch of that bank failed. But sity of guarding against these preswas the pressure confined to the "Agricul- sures, and from the never ending tural Bank" itself? An hon. Member op- alarm and anxiey which must attend the posite has referred to the necessity of Irish business of a banker, when conducted banks keeping gold. But how did the upon such principles. The hon. Member necessity of keeping gold arise? From the opposite (Mr. Turner), has told you this rash speculation of imprudent bankers, evening that "though it is true that the whose failure necessarily created a pressure Bill of last year has caused the English upon every bank in the country. The bankers some loss, yet the increased secuProvincial Bank of Ireland, which is con-rity which it affords against pressure and ducted upon very excellent principles, suffered materially from the failure of the Agricultural Bank. See how the Agricultural Bank told upon the Provincial Bank. The agent of the Provincial Bank, in his examination before the Committee, was asked whether or no, in consequence of the pressure on the Agricultural Bank, it became necessary, on the part of other banks, to increase their supplies of gold? He said "Undoubtedly. The Provincial Bank was previously ready for a run, for it was feared that the general circulation of the country would be discredited. The Provincial Bank had a great quantity of gold; it was always very considerable. The amount of gold in the Irish Banks at the time payment of their notes was demanded exceeded their issues." Talk of relief from the necessity of having great quantities of gold! Why, the necessity arises from the want of stability in the banking system. The agent was asked "Do you speak of your own knowledge? -Yes. Can you inform us if the greater part of the gold came from England?-All from England. Did it come from London and other places?-Principally from London, but also from Liverpool, and I believe from Bristol, but I am not sure. That is to say, the gold in the Bank of England and in the branch banks is made to supply the Banks of Ireland." In answer to other questions, the agent stated, that "Contemporaneously with this large de mand, gold was demanded at all the banks, including the Bank of Ireland, and that the increased supply of gold was very considerable, indeed, not falling short, he believed, of 2,000,000l." speculation has tenfold compensated them for the loss." This is the evidence of a country banker, a Member of this House, and so do not undervalue the advantages of this Bill, because you think it will introduce some restrictions on the circulation. We now have the Bills for Scotland and Ireland before us; and it has been asked, "Why have you not dealt the same with Scotland and Ireland as last year you did with England?" But how stands the case? Last year there was no notice at all to the English bankers. The twelve months previous to my statement in this House were determined upon as the average of the amount of issue. We might have adopted the same course with regard to Ireland and Scotland. It would have been perfectly just; but we did no such thing. I did not deal with Ireland and Scotland in that way; but taking the average of a year instead of twelve weeks, what has been the result? Ireland gets a false estimate. By taking the average of thirteen lunar months instead of twelve weeks, we give to Ireland the amount of about 1,000,000l. increased issue. This is one advantage we give to Ireland; but you are allowed to retain your issue of notes under 51. The English bankers have no such privilege; and this relieves the Irish bankers from the necessity of employing specie for small sums. But I have also abolished the exclusive privilege of the Bank of Ireland. This is an ad vantage we have not given to Scotland; but in Ireland we give to all other bankers the privilege of competing with the Bank of Ireland, within those limits heretofore excepted. You well know the inconvenience of the Irish bankers in not having Two millions of gold to be suddenly called branches in Dublin or its neighbourhood. for! That was the state of things in Ire- That is the seat of Government-the seat land at that time in consequence of the of a large portion of the commerce of the improvidence of the banks of Ireland. All country-and the exclusive privilege of this amount of gold was stated by the the Bank of Ireland, within the metropolis agent to be necessary simply for the pro- aud its vicinity, we have altogether abotection of the credit of the banks of Ire-lished. Each banker may now have an |