was a great injustice to the soldiers, and, in fact, a breach of agreement. The debt of the Royal Horse Guards was of considerable amount; and the officers were compelled to pay for the band, over which they had no control. The proposed change was a mere petty, paltry, and dirty economy against one of the finest regiments in the world. The Report of the Board of General Officers was decidedly opposed to any such reduction in either of the regiments of Life Guards, as it could not be made without impairing their efficiency. The hon. and gallant Member said, that there was no mode of obstruction which the House afforded, which he would not avail himself of to prevent the passing of any army votes, so long as this warrant should remain in force. Mr. Sidney Herbert said, that the Board of General Officers went into a full inquiry into the case of the Horse Guards, and they made a very voluminous report. It certainly did appear that there was a considerable sum in arrear owing from the Horse Guards. With respect to the alterations mentioned by the hon. and gallant Officer, in regard to the clothing of the regiment, that was a subject which he would not go into, because a great difference of opinion existed upon it. He was perfectly satisfied that the arrangement made was one quite compatible with the comfort and efficiency of the troops. He sincerely believed that no unnecessary expense would be incurred for these troops; and that the public property was expended with a due regard both to the efficiency of the troops and to public economy. The Horse Guards had incurred considerable expense with a view to put themselves upon a footing with the Life Guards. He was quite willing to believe that the hon. and gallant Officer was actuated by public motives in bringing forward this question; but he was contented to rest his judgment on the opinion of those military officers who had paid proper attention to the subject. The change had been made under the highest military authorities; and he hoped, therefore, that the hon. and gallant Officer would not carry into execution his threat. Sir C. Napier; I wish to correct a statement of the gallant Officer the Clerk of the Ordnance. He must have misunderstood me; for I am sure he did not intend to misrepresent me. He stated that I ridiculed the fortification of Ports 1 mouth, and that I said there were only sixteen guns to defend the harbour. I stated that the sea defences were not good; that only thirteen guns enfiladed the har bour, and those of the ramparts were all exposed, and could not prevent a fleet running into the harbour. As to what the right hon. Baronet stated, I was so well defended by the noble Lord, that it was unnecessary for me to repel the attempt, the unworthy attempt of the right hon. Baronet to throw odium upon me for stating our want of defence; and I should tell him, if next year Pembroke, Falmouth, Sheerness, and the Channel Islands, were in the same state, I should bring it before Parliament. House went into a Committee of Supply, and 390,000l. were voted for the Ordnance Department. House resumed, and adjourned at a quarter past one. HOUSE OF LORDS. Monday, June 16, 1845. MINUTES.] BILLS. Public. 1. Bishops' Patronage (Ireland). 2. Schoolmasters (Scotland). 3. and passed :-Maynooth College (Ireland). Private.-1a Dundee Waterworks; Harwell and Streatly Road; Leeds and Thirsk Railway; Newcastle and Darlington (Brandling Junction) Railway; Monkland and Kirkintilloch Railway; Taw Vale Railway and Dock; Blackburn and Preston Railway; Waterford and Kilkenny Railway; Reversionary Interest Society; Agricultural and Commercial Bank of Ireland; Kendal Reservoirs; Sheffield and Rotherham Railway; Severn's Estate; Lord Barrington's Estate. 2. Manchester Court of Record: Manchester Improvement; Newcastle-upon-Tyne Coal Turn; Southampton and Dorchester Railway. Reported.-Dunstable and Birmingham and London Railway; Brighton, Lewes, and Hastings Railway (Keymer Branch); Belfast and Ballymena Railway; Yoker Road; Leicester Freemen's Allotments; Lady Sandy's (Turner's) Estate; York and Scarborough Railway Deviation. 3. and passed:-Blackburn, Burnley, Accrington and Colne Extension Railway; Leeds, Dewsbury and Manchester Railway; Glasgow Markets; Stokinchurch Road; Rochdale Vicarage (Molesworth's) Estate; Huddersfield and Sheffield Junction Railway; Chester and Holyhead Railway; Leeds and Bradford Railway Extension (Shipley to Colne); Watermen's Company Endowment. PETITIONS PRESENTED. By the Bishops of Winchester, and Llandaff, Earls of Winchilsea and Roden, and by the Marquess of Breadalbane, from Stewartstown, and a great number of other places, against Increase of Grant to Maynooth College.-From Saint Ives, in favour of Increase of Grant to Maynooth College.-From Bishop and Clergy of Clogher, and from Castledermot, for Inquiry into Course of Instruction adopted at Maynooth College. -From King's Lynn, against Law of Debtor and Creditor.-From Guardians of Trim Union, against Poor Law (Ireland) Act, respecting the Repayment of Money advanced for Building Workhouses.-From Trustees of Turnpike Roads of County of Selkirk, for the Insertion of Clause in the Turnpike Roads (Scotland) Amendment Act. By the Duke of Buccleuch, from Ministers aud Elders of the Church of Scotland, met in General Assembly, for Improving the Condition of School masters (Scotland).-From Galashiels, for the Insertion of Clause in the Hawick Railway Bill, to pre or the necessity of taking part at an early vent the Running of Trains on the Sabbath.-From period of life, in the conduct of great affairs, Manhood, against the Running of Railway Trains on the Sabbath. THE QUEEN'S MESSAGE-SERVICES OF SIR H. POTTINGER.] Order of the Day for taking into consideration Her Majesty's Message, read. The Message having been read by the Clerk at the Table, The Earl of Aberdeen: I rise to move an humble Address to Her Majesty, in answer to Her most gracious Message which your Lordships have just heard; and in doing so, it will be necessary for me to detain you but a very few minutes. I have already had opportunities in this House of bearing testimony to the great merits of the distinguished person who, on the present occasion, is the object of Her Majesty's gracious consideration; and I have not been sparing in those expressions of admiration and praise of that conduct which appeared to Her Majesty's Government to be so justly due. My Lords, those sentiments have found an echo throughout the whole country. In every part of the kingdom, in England, in Scot land, in Ireland, the presence of Sir Henry Pottinger has been welcomed with enthusiasm, and every effort made to do him honour. My Lords, it is clear that the vast majority of those places which have so united, and expressed such opinions, could have had very little means of duly estimating the real merits of Sir Henry Pottinger. They looked to the boundless field which he had opened to British enterprise, and to that inexhaustible source of commercial wealth and prosperity which by his means had been rendered accessible to our fellow countrymen. But, my Lords, I feel it my duty to say, that the real merits of Sir Henry Pottinger would have deserved your Lordships' approbation, and the approbation of his Sovereign as much, if they had not been attended with such magnificent results. For, throughout his whole conduct, in the relation in which it was my good fortune to stand towards him, there never wanted fresh occasion to do justice to the great qualities of his mind, and the conduct he pursued towards China. Sir Henry Pottinger, in being selected for the service in China, was removed from service in a school to which, I may be permitted to say, I think the State has on more than one occasion been greatly indebted. I know not how it is, whether from long habit of self-reliance, but the fact is, that the service of the East India Company has produced men who, by the energy of their character, and the statesmanlike views which they have entertained, are peculiarly qualified to contend successfully with the greatest difficulties, and to confer the most signal advantages on their country. My Lords, when Sir Henry Pottinger went to China, he found everything he had to undertake strange and new-the business on which he was employed, and the people with whom he had to deal. The success, therefore, which has attended his labours, has occasioned much and very natural surprise. It is not astonishing that, with the assistance and by the gallantry of the naval and military forces employed in that war, he should have been enabled in no long time to dictate peace at Nankin; but, I say it is wonderful that he should have found the means of, by his character and conduct, so conciliating the persons with whom he had to deal, as to annihilate the pain of defeat, and convert suspicion and hatred into confidence and friendship. My Lords, looking to the difficulties with which he had to contend, he performed the service in a manner which cannot but be consi dered most remarkable. In the commercial details with which he had to occupy himself, as well as in the regulation of the administrative Government, he showed the same judgment, the same energy, attended with the same success; and I cannot help saying, that although it was the object of Her Majesty's Government to endeavour, as much as possible, to relieve him from all responsibility by furnishing him with every instruction calculated to meet every difficulty that could arise, your Lordships must be perfectly aware that in the situa tion in which he was placed, that was quite impossible for us to do, and that much was necessarily left to his own discretion. Now, my Lords, I believe I may say, that in the whole course of his service I do not recollect any act, certainly none of any importance, acting as he did on his own discretion, which did not fully meet with the approbation of Her Majesty's Government. My Lords, I am not about to enter into any details, but it may be, perhaps, satisfactory to your Lordships to know the result of that great opening which has been made for British commerce. I may be permitted to state, that the value of British goods imported into Canton alone, in the year 1844, amounted, to 3,451,000l.; the value of Chinese goods exported for the British markets from the same port during the same period, amounted to 3,383,000l. This is a much larger sum than the annual British and foreign trade with the whole of China previously amounted to. Be it recollected, too, that this Return is confined to Canton; I say nothing about the northern ports of Shanghai and Amoy. I have every reason to believe that the trade in both those ports is rapidly increasing, and that there is every prospect of that increase being continued for a long time. Our intelligent Consul in that part of the world, Mr. Macgregor, gives the most favourable view of our commercial prospects. He says, that there is no appearance of any glut; that all persons engaged in Chinese commerce had fulfilled their engagements; that no bankruptcies of any note had been declared; and to this I myself may add, that I hope it will be in my power to lay such Papers before the House as will show, that the interest and the importance of these events are greater than any estimate yet made has affixed to them. Besides these observations, which I have thought it necessary to address to your Lordships, I have much pleasure in being able to state, that ever since the conclusion of our Treaty with the Chinese Government, the best understanding and the utmost cordiality have prevailed. Amongst other causes, I impute this to the practice of good faith; and I trust that nothing may happen to change the relations, or to disturb the friendly feeling which now happily subsists between the authorities and the subjects of both countries; and I earnestly hope that the people of England will recollect that advantages so important as those which we have obtained in China are not to be preserved otherwise than by a scrupulous regard to justice; and I also hope it will be remembered that no temporary benefit could compensate for the evil of placing in jeopardy the great commercial advantages which we have gained. If we are to preserve this great good, and to extend it, we must carry on our intercourse with the Chinese people in a manner calculated to inspire and to preserve their confidence. It is only necessary for me now to repeat, that this extension of our commerce, and the other advantages which we have acquired in China, are, in a great degree, to be imputed to the negotiations carried on by the subject of this Vote; and the preser vation of those advantages, is in my opinion only to be effected by a strict adherence to the prudent, liberal, conciliatory, and enlightened policy of Sir Henry Pottinger. My Lords, I will not detain your Lordships longer on this subject, but conclude by moving, that an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, returning the Thanks of this House for Her Majesty's most gracious Message, and to assure Her Majesty that this House will cheerfully concur in securing a Pension to Sir Henry Pottinger of 1,500l. a year for the term of his natural life. The Marquess of Lansdowne: The noble Earl has truly stated, that there have been other opportunities afforded in this House at other times for evincing the disposition which prevailed throughout this House, as it did throughout the country, to acknowledge in the services of Sir Henry Pottinger some of the most eminent that have ever been rendered to this country. But I feel, that although that has been the case heretofore, it is impossible to allow this Answer to Her Majesty's Message to be put to the vote without endeavouring to express, on behalf both of myself and others, the sense of gratitude and approbation with which this House must view the intention of Her Majesty to confer a signal mark of distinction upon Sir Henry Pottinger, in testimony of Her approval of his services. Those services were alluded to by the noble Earl in a manner so distinct and emphatic, coming from a person having immediate acquaintance with the details of his services, that I feel it is impossible for me to add anything to what he has said in recommending to your Lordships the measure that is proposed, in acknowledgment of the services of Sir Henry Pottinger. The noble Earl has truly stated that those services have been of a peculiar nature, uniting circumstances which have never been conjoined before in the services of any man, I may venture to say, entrusted with important functions by his Sovereign. Sir Henry Pottinger went out to China instructed by one Government, and he performed the duties entrusted to him by that Government with its entire approbation; he received instructions of another Government, which succeeded in office the Administration by which he had been originally commissioned; and we hear from the highest authority, that those instructions also he executed in a manner to command their entire and warm approbation. It was most truly observed by the ow proposed to your Lordships. noble Earl, and it is that peculiar feature | vote I in the case to which I think your Lord- But cannot, in common justice to my ships' attention ought to be directed, that gallant Friends, Sir Hugh Gough, and having been enabled to give the greatest Sir W. Parker, and the officers and men of effect to a combined system of military the Army and Navy, who with unparalleled operations, one of the largest which the zeal, energy, and valour, carried into exeworld has ever seen, there was something cution the instructions they received, and in his proceeding and character which en- thus enabled Sir H. Pottinger to give effect abled him to convert feelings of what to the instructions he received for the negomight have been expected to be mortifica- tiation of the Treaty of peace-I cannot, I tion into a different spirit, and to engraft say, allow to pass altogether without notice the happiest results of peace on the most services such as those rendered by the triumphant operations of war. With re- Army and Navy-services to which I trace spect to the immediate amount of the re- the great results dwelt upon by my noble ward which had been proposed, I do not Friend, because I know that, without their wish to urge anything on Her Majesty's assistance, such results could not have been Government, in any hostile spirit, beyond attained. What has been done with the that which they have proposed. At the Chinese has not been done by reasoning: same time I must be permitted to say, the people of that country have not been that although I feel the inconvenience of reasoned into a peace, but beaten into it. urging anything on Government, beyond The result obtained is due much more to that which they may conceive to be the our arms, than to our diplomacy. I should just measure of reward, yet, if they had have scarcely taken this opportunity of gone further, and extended the provision calling your Lordships' attention to another to the amount of the largest which is circumstance, if the noble Marquess oppomade for Ambassadors retiring from public site had not appeared to have fallen into a service, I do not believe that a single strange misconception on a point respecting dissenting voice would have been heard in which I should have thought he must have either House of Parliament. What nego- been better informed. He seemed to think, tiation-what Treaty has resembled this? that to Sir H. Pottinger was to be imWhat, in the result of the scheme itself, puted not only the success of our negotiaor of succeeding events, has been equal to tions, but that of our arms. The naval and it in extending the commerce of the coun- military operations were not under the ditry, and placing it on a footing which is rection of Sir Henry Pottinger; nay, more, immense in its immediate results, and still I have every reason to believe that Sir more in the magnitude of the results which Henry Pottinger entirely disapproved of at a future day may be expected? In the operations which led to ultimate sucwhat I have said, I do not impute to Her cess: that he expressed his opinion of the Majesty's Government any backwardness, hopelessness of success by means of our after the emphatic terms they had put naval and military operations in the Yanginto Her Majesty's mouth, acknowledging tse-Kiang, and imagined that they could not the services of Sir Henry Pottinger; but be effective anywhere, for the reduction I do presume that it was from some of the Chinese to our terms except in the particular consideration not stated that immediate vicinity of Pekin. I agree with their recommendation has stopped short my noble Friend in giving every just and where it does, from what motive I wil! proper tribute of applause where it is due not inquire. I am certain that on every for civil services; but I do not think it fair ground such a course would have been that a like recompense should not be given most desirable. to those services of the Army and Navy, The Earl of Ellenborough: Nothing by which alone Sir Henry Pottinger was ought to be more gratifying to Sir H. enabled to give effect to the instrucPottinger than the encomium pronounced tions he received. Your Lordships, I upon him by my noble Friend at the head have no doubt, will ratify the vote of the of the Foreign Office, because my noble House of Commons as to Sir Henry PotFriend knows better than any man tinger. Sir H. Gough has already remay almost say he alone fully knows-ceived a high appointment, one of the the nature of the services rendered by Sir greatest dignity, authority, and emolu. H. Pottinger. On that subject I shall ment, which the Government can confer. not add a word to the eulogium of my That is his just reward. But permit me noble Friend. I most fully concur in the to ask, how have Sir W. Parker's ser - I admit, for his own comfort, before he was appointed to the most important command which it is in the power of the Government to give. He is about to proceed, as my noble Friend probably recollects, to the command of the Mediterranean fleet. I am not going to enter into a comparison of the civil and military services. It is undoubtedly true, that the way was made for Sir Henry Pottinger's negotiations by the exertions of Her Majesty's brave forces by sea and land. I am not going to enter on that subject. My object was to state, as an answer to my noble Friend's complaint, that both Houses of Parliament and the Crown have paid a tribute of gratitude and applause to the two gallant individuals to whom my noble Friend has alluded. vices been considered? Had he commanded a small squadron of ships and met and defeated another squadron at sea, no doubt he would have been rewarded in a similar way to Sir H. Pottinger. But Sir W. Parker's services were far beyond such as could be performed in a single action. They were extended over three or four months, in a river full of shoals, which was partly unknown. Surrounded by enemies, he had to conduct through an intricate navigation seventy vessels; and he not only conducted them through that navigation, but he did so with unvaried success. I know nothing in our naval records superior to Sir W. Parker's conduct of this fleet. Knowing, as he did, the principles-the just principles on which that war was to be conducted-that it The Earl of Ellenborough: I know the was a war against the Government, and Crown has bestowed on them all that the not against the people of the country; he Crown can bestow. I believe that the did not derive from the war those pecuniary Government is desirous to appoint the best advantages which might be supposed to officer they could get, and therefore nomibelong to his position. I think I am justi-nated Sir W. Parker to the Mediterranean fied, therefore, in bringing under the attention of the House his services, as commanding their consideration. I have thought it my duty to say so much, as well from a regard to the great interests of the country, as to the reputation of the brave and honourable men to whom I have referred, and with whom I have had the honour of acting in the public service. The Earl of Haddington: If my noble Friend had been in the country-as he was not-when an account of the great services to which he referred reached us, he would have known that there was conveyed to the two gallant officers whom he has named the Thanks of both Houses of Parliament. In the course of the discussion which took place on that occasion, noble Lords in this place, and hon. Gentlemen in another, dwelt at large, but not more than was well deserved, in praise of both these gallant officers. I am certain, that neither Sir W. Parker, nor the British Navy, can ever forget the speech of my noble Friend the noble Duke near me (Wellington) on that occasion. He did not confine his remarks to the commander of the military forces; but, in a way that was almost impossible in any respect to approach, he gave their fair share of approbation to Her Majesty's ships, and to the gallant and distinguished leader who conducted them. Further, Sir W. Parker has received the Grand Cross of the Bath, and he was made on his return home a Baronet; and he did not remain at home long enough, I fleet; but that does not really touch the point at issue-which is pecuniary reward, and not rewards of honour. The Earl of Haddington: I may be allowed, on the part of the Navy, to say, that other individuals besides Sir W. Parker might have been found qualified to take the command of the Mediterranean fleet. The Earl of Ellenborough: With the exception of Sir G. Cockburn, there is no one with whom you can compare him as a commander. The Marquess of Lansdowne: Having long lived on terms of intimacy with Sir W. Parker, and having heard from civilians, military, and naval men, the most unqualified testimony to his services as a great commander, I should be the last person, not only to say anything which might be considered a disparagement of such a man, but to omit any opportunity which could by possibility be taken advantage of, in doing him justice. But, as my noble Friend at the head of the Admiralty has said, the occasion for acknowledging those services has already been seized upon; for the honour of his Sovereign, the tribute of thanks by both Houses, and the command of the most important station on the globe, constitute a full acknowledgment of services, however great they may be. The Earl of Ellenborough: I am sure the noble Marquess does not understand me. I merely stated that he was under an erroneous impression as to Sir Hugh |