to take this resolution and draft it in such a form as to meet the sense of the meeting by omitting the objectionable parts and meeting the conditions of our society's work.

Mr. Quay:-I do not think we understand yet what that resolution is, or what we want. Some one has said that the only thing we want to do is to save time. That is not the sense of the resolution * at all. The saving of time is only one thing. The Mechanical Engineers have a method of electing officers. What that is is outlined there. Now it is not just merely the fact of saving time in collecting ballots that we are after—

Mr. Wolfe: If I may interrupt you, I meant saving time here

now.

Mr. Quay: You wanted to get the sense of the meeting. This committee is to draft a resolution to conform to the sense of this meeting, and the point is to know what the sense of the meeting is-whether we want to adopt a method similar to that of the Mechanical Engineers or not. If we do, of course the committee can take up that point and frame something that would probably be more simple and more suitable.

Mr. Mackay:-I would like to ask Mr. Wolfe if there is any stated time for the committee to report?

Mr. Wolfe:-I take it that it would be subject to the order of the Chair-as soon as they conveniently could.

Mr. Mackay:-I mean, is it to be acted on at this meeting? Mr. Wolfe:-Most certainly; it would have to be under the resolution proposed at the last annual meeting.

The President:-The committee would necessarily report before the end of this session, I should say. Is there any further discussion of this matter?

Mr. Wolfe's motion for the appointment of a committee was then put and carried.

The President:-I would appoint on that committee, Mr. Blackmore, Mr. Wolfe, and Mr. Quay, and I would ask that they report at the opening of our session to-morrow morning. Gentlemen, is there any further new business to come in at this point?

Mr. Quay:-I would like to ask what our constitution says about our meetings-if we are to have one a year or two. The question came up last year on the advisability of having a semi-annual meeting. I do not know whether our constitution provides for that or

not.

The President:-There is no provision, I think, in the constitution for it. It was discussed at the meeting last year. Article VI of the constitution says: "The annual meeting of the society will

be held in New York in January of each year, the date to be fixed by the board of managers 60 days in advance of the meeting." There is no reference to a semi-annual meeting there.

Secretary Hart: In the by-laws it says: "In addition to the annual meeting there shall be a semi-annual meeting at places designated at the annual meeting."

Mr. Quay:-Last year we voted not to have any semi-annual meeting. I suppose it is proper this year to make a motion to have one. I move you, Mr. Chairman, that we decide to have a semiannual meeting. But it says in the by-laws there shall be a semiannual meeting, so if we carry out Article XII of the by-laws we will have one without any motion.

The President:-It was necessary last year to have a motion to dispense with it.

Mr. Quay:-If we do not have a motion to dispense with a meeting, we will have one then, will we not? I withdraw my motion then. The President:-Is there any further new business? If not, I would make an announcement to the members present. A card has been left on my table stating that Mr. Thomas McNeil, who is in charge of the class in steam fitting of the New York Trade Schools invites the members of this convention to visit the steam and hot water classes there; that he will be there with his classes until 9:30 to-night. If any members of the society in town would like to see the school in operation, he will be very glad to show them through it. I think, in view of the kind invitation, that we should take some action and that those who have the spare time should go to see it.

Mr. Wolfe:--I would move, Mr. President, that the invitation be accepted and the thanks of this society extended to Mr. McNeil. The motion was carried.

The President:—If there is no further no new business we will take up the papers.

Mr. Stangland:-I have something here which I would like to read to the members, and I trust it will be endorsed:

"It is the sense of this meeting of the society that no recommendation, endorsement, or approval shall be given to or made for any individual or for any engineering, mechanical, scientific, or literary production; but the opinion of the society may be expressed on such subjects as affect the public welfare, provided its opinion does not carry with it the interest of any individual.”

I think it is important that this be considered. It might avoid some trouble in discussion, a possible law suit, or some hard feelings. Members can air their views here, but we do not endorse them.

A member:—Will you kindly read that again?

Mr. Stangland read the resolution a second time and added: In other words, we do not endorse any system, mechanical or otherwise, or any product or machinery, except as individuals.

Mr. J. J. Wilson:-I think the point is very well taken. It is a matter, I believe, concerning which there has been some agitation here before, and I hope that the members will thoroughly discuss this before it is voted on.

Mr. Quay: Is this a resolution?

Mr. Stangland:--I read it for the edification of the members and I trust that it will be put in the form of a motion.

Mr. Quay:-I move you, Mr. Chairman, that this resolution bet adopted and spread on our minutes. (Seconded.)

Mr. Wolf:-I would offer an amendment that it be made a part of the by-laws of the society.

Mr. Quay:--I accept that.

Mr. Stangland:—Anything that will make it more binding.

Mr. Barron:-I would like this thing brought out of the clouds. I confess I do not understand a word about it. I know of nothing that has been attempted to be endorsed here, and it seems to me that to put on our records a resolution so ambigiuous as that is simply absurd; it is childish to take men's time up listening to a resolution. that means nothing. The phraseology is indistinct and leads to nowhere. It is practically in the clouds. If you pass a resolution let it be something definite that a common ordinary man can interpret and which it will not be necessary to submit to a judge in order to find out what it means.

The President:-I know of no engineering society which has not some such clause as this in its constitution or by-laws. The Franklin Institute Journal prints a notice that the Franklin Institute is not responsible for any article that appears in its journal. They publish it for general information, but do not become responsible. I am a member of the Engineers' Club of Philadelphia and we discuss all sorts of questions, but as a club we cannot be sued for expressing our opinions. Having such a bylaw you can discuss a question as freely as you choose, but the society, as a society, is not responsible for your individual opinions. I know of no engineering society that has not some protection of this kind. I know of a case some time ago where the award of a prize was made at a mechanical exposition. One party felt aggrieved and sued the institute for the action of the committee of judges. They were thrown out of court, but it required, on the part of the officers of the institute, a lot of preparatory detail to present

a proper defense and a great deal of expense for nothing. If such a clause as this had been in its constitution, and was known, the matter would never have gotten to a suit. I take it that the object in presenting this by-law is simply for the protection of the society from any questions that may arise. These things are very likely to come and do come when you least expect them. I think it does not restrict the members in any way. It does not interfere with any particular system or with any apparatus of any kind. It simply puts the society on record that they themselves are not responsible for the individual opinion of the members, and those opinions can be expressed as freely with this as a by-law. This is my interpretation of what has been suggested.

Mr. Blackmore:-If we do not pass a resolution like this, could the society be held legally responsible for any opinion of its members?

The President:-I cannot answer that. I am not a lawyer. But I think a case might be made against the society.

Mr. Blackmore:-I do not see myself how it could be possible. It seems to me absurd that this society should be held responsible for the opinions of its members; but if there is any doubt about that, by all means let us have it in such form that we cannot make a mistake.

Mr. Wolfe:-I look at it in this way-I am no lawyer--but I understand the gist of the motion to be as the president explains it. Now, as a matter of business, as a society, would we want to be indorsers, by adopting a resolution offered here and so becoming responsible as an indorser becomes responsible upon a note? If this society is what it ought to be and what it undoubtedly will be, it is a society whose opinions ought to carry weight with people interested in good warming, good ventilation, good engineering, and if this society's opinion, as printed and quoted, could be used as an endorsement of any man's opinion as expressed here-and we might vote as a matter of courtesy or not vote at all on a thing we did not alogether approve of--might we not, without some such motion as this, go on record as an indorser and so become responsible?

Mr. Mackay:-It seems to me, as we hold our meetings and pub-. lish our proceedings, those are not proceedings of the individual members, but the proceedings of the society and we, as a society, can be held responsible for running down any man's goods and that he has a good case against us, and that such a resolution as that should be on the by-laws of the society. The proceedings are not the proceedings of individual members, but the proceedings of the society.

The President:-Gentlemen, is there any further discussion? Mr. Blackmore:-This evidently requires and admits of a great deal of discussion. Each member that speaks brings up some other question. We may indorse a principle without indorsing a system. This would not prohibit us from doing that. This simply speaks of the members, but the opinion of the society may be expressed on such subjects. It is one of the elementary facts of our profession that no part of it, I might say, is reduced to actual data by which we can say that a thing shall be done a certain way and will produce certain results. It is very largely experimental, very largely conducted on precedent. Now, this society can do a great good by laying down certain standards to be followed. If we lay down a certain standard, some system may come nearer to that than another-it does not seem possible to me that we would be liable to an action for damages if we did that, nor yet do I see that a resolution like this would protect us from it. I think that we ought to protect ourselves by every possible means we can. Whether the reading of this resolution would do it or not, I am not quite sure. I think this is a matter that should receive greater consideration and should be referred to a committee before we take action upon it.

Mr. Quay: Mr. Chairman, I do not understand that this resolution would affect any motion we might pass as a society, but our proceedings go out and are published and I find that they give an account of what every member says, or pretty nearly so. Now, I think this rule is to guard the society against wnat individuals express in the meeting. It is not going to do any harm and it is all we want as far as it goes. We cannot relieve ourselves as a society. of responsibility for any motion that we might pass or any rule that we might adopt.

Mr. Wilson:-I can see very plainly how we could adopt the standard and at the same time not necessarily commend or adopt a system. Standards, of course, are very desirable, and those can be adopted without indorsing any particular system. The results are given there and the standards named, and the systems can act up to them.

The President:-If there is no further discussion we will take a vote on this question. All in favor of the motion as made by Mr. Quay and seconded by Mr. Stangland that the resolution read become a part of our by-laws will express their opinion by saying aye -opposed no. The motion was carried unanimously.

The President:-Gentlemen, if there is no further business we will take up the papers, and as Mr. Kramer is with us I think it would be well to take up his paper on "Forced Blast Warming with Furnaces."