CHAPTER X.

WHEN Mr Barclay and Mr Smith were again alone, the latter resumed the conversation in the following

manner:

"You were perfectly right, in supposing that I do not, by any means, object to all interference in ecclesiastical affairs by the Civil Government of a country. It is only against such interposition as exists here, and all other interposition conducted in the same spirit, and tending to the same end, that I protest. I no more object (in the abstract) to the British Government interfering in the religion of the country over which they preside, than I do to Pomarre,* for instance, having interfered in the religion of his country, and done all that in him lay, short of using force, to extirpate Idolatry, and establish Christianity. That a Government should give its countenance to the pious Ministers of the Gospel, and do all that it can to defend them, and the people who stand united with them, from persecution and oppression, not only seems to me allowable, but, I confess, I cannot see how a Christian Government can do less, without incurring great guilt.

"But, when a Government, whether nominally Christian, or heathen, takes upon it to use compulsory measures in religion; to prescribe the mode in which the Church of Christ shall be governed, and its services conducted; when it lends all the weight of

* Late king of the Society Islands.

its influence to one party of professing Christians, to the proportionable depression of others; and, especially, when it takes the appointment of Christian Ministers into its own hands, and thereby virtually assumes to itself the power of prescribing what the popular form of Christianity in that country shall be;

to this I do object. For, I, very naturally, say,How can the Civil Government of any country, often profligate, and always occupied chiefly with secular things, be competent judges of the requisite qualifications of a Christian Ministry?

"Now, Sir, the government of this country, does assume, and exercise the power in question; for, with it rests the nomination of those Bishops, whose power, considering the livings at their disposal, and their exclusive power of ordaining all inferior orders of Clergy, must, of course, be very great, and, perhaps, in a considerable degree, avail to decide the general character of those over whom they preside. To it (the Civil Government of this country), is committed, also, the right of nomination to some of those livings which (the power of presenting to them resting where it does) constitute so many lures held out to men to offer themselves as candidates for the priesthood, whether qualified for it or not. To it (the Civil Government of this country), is to be ascribed in respect of its connivance, at least, that system of private patronage, by which a number of individuals, constituting a great part of the Aristocracy of the country, have the power of giving away the cure of souls according as the caprice of the moment; or the influence of favouritism; or the doctrines of political expediency; or the sense of personal obligation,

shall dictate.

"Assuming, therefore, what I suppose, cannot be denied, that that system is either the result of civil interference, or upheld by civil sanction, I ask, does it not leave the appointment of a very large propor

tion of the Ministers of religion at the discretion of men, who may, or may not, as it happens, be, and who often actually are, gamblers, debauchées, spendthrifts, cockfighters, horseracers, and I cannot tell what else?"

"Sir," said Mr Barclay, interrupting the speaker, "as to the evil of which you are complaining, there can be only one opinion amongst good men; but the question is, how is that evil to be avoided? It is easy to find fault; it is not so easy to amend. In whose hands would you place the nomination of Ministers? Would you lodge it in the hands of the general body, and make the mob the caterers for our spiritual wants? Surely they would prove at least as incompetent to the office as the individuals you have pointed out. How, I repeat, then, would you avoid the evil you decry ?i,

"By the simplest process imaginable," rejoined Mr Smith; "a process already practised amongst the Dissenters, with whom, by the formation of churches, and their investiture with the power of nominating their own Ministers, this sacred trust is deposited in the hands of the most pious part of every congregation."

"But I hear," said Mr Barclay, "of sad contentions amongst Dissenting Churches on this very subject; of unworthy Ministers appointed, and then ejected, and of separations in consequence of this, some following the ejected Minister, others adhering to his

successor."

"You cannot," said Mr Smith, "be more ready to bring this fact forward, than I am to deplore it.—

* This expression may sound strangely to some ears; but we should recollect that it was to, or of, the Churches, and not the Church of Judea, Galatia, and Macedonia, that the Apostle wrote. The term, therefore, is perfectly scriptural. (See 2 Cor. viii, 1. Gal. i, 2, and 22.)

But, you must recollect, that this is an accidental evil, and not a radical defect of the system.

By this system, all the provision is made that can be made for the appointment of a pious Minister; and, even, were the power of making that appointment lodged in the hands of the general body, I suspect, that it would be better fulfilled, than at present, since there is a secret respect for piety, even amongst the profligate; and, there would then be no temptation (or, at least, far less temptation, than at present exists) held out to the appointing individuals to act contrary to the dictates of their consciences. The circumstance of their pecuniary interests, or their family convenience not being involved in the matter, would, I conceive, greatly increase the probability. of a proper appointment.

"By the system which I reprobate,-a system, in my opinion, wrong in its essence, and not merely defective in its administration (which the opposite system confessedly often is),-the piety of the individual intended to take part in the Christian Ministry is, in an immense proportion of cases, never so much as inquired about; neither his piety, I say, nor his mental qualifications, of any kind, are considered, farther than respects the acquisition of a certain quantity of Latin and Greek, and a measure of acquaintance with the historical and theoretical parts of the Christian religion.

"But, in the meantime, the religious character of the embryo Minister is so far from being made a matter of moment, that he is often set apart for the office before it can be known what his mental, or spiritual qualifications will be ;-whilst he is yet an unconscious infant, or a thoughtless school-boy.

"In short, in the case of private Church patronage, a bribe is continually held out to the presenting individual, to make the presentation a mere trading

concern; and the receiving individual is bribed, often exceedingly against the bent of his natural inclination, to become a party in this nnhallowed spiritual traffic.

"Thus Church patronage, whether vested immediately in the hands of the Government, or in those of individuals, authorized by them to exercise it, and maintained by them in the possession of it, amounts to a civil interference in Church Government, and constitutes a bonus offered to men to sport with their consciences, and to lord it over God's Heritage; 'taking oversight of the flock for filthy lucre's sake.'*

"I have learnt, with Mr Scott, to think, that a a thing may be unscriptural, and yet not antiscriptural; but I do think that sort of connexion which subsists between Church and State, in this country, thoroughly antiscriptural;-I mean, contrary to the spirit of Scripture. I do not take advantage of the impossibility of producing any sanction for such union from the New Testament; for you may then say, as it is often said, 'that as the early christians lived under heathen Governments, there could not be any union between them and the ruling powers.' But will you undertake to prove that if the then existing heathen Government had made overtures to them (the Christians of that day), to this effect;—that is, had proposed an union so monstrous; a system of mutual co-operation, and, as it were, playing into each others hands;—will you undertake to prove, I say, that these overtures would have been acceded to, supposing one of the conditions specified in them to have been that of leaving the nomination of the highest order of Clergy in the hands of the ruling powers?”

"Sir," said Mr Barclay, "I will not attempt to