1137 Withdrawal of Troops from {FEB. 23, 1854} the West India Islands. 1138 which was a Danish island, for succour. Some delay, however, took place before it arrived, as the commander of the detachment did not like to undertake the responsibility of sending troops to a British island without the consent of the Governor. He believed that after some time had elapsed troops were sent there from Antigua. He thought it was disgraceful that British sub purposes. Altogether 10,000 horses attached to the forces would have to be sent by both countries to Constantinople; and this would require 100,000 tons of shipping; and it must be recollected that these forces would be sent to a country in which it would be almost impossible to obtain the means of transit on the spot. Therefore, no doubt the difficulties of carrying out the intentions of the Govern-jects, British property, and British terriment would be great indeed; and he thought the noble Duke would have to look for further means of overcoming those difficulties. They should at least try to obtain this steam tonnage, because the efficiency of the force would depend a great deal upon their obtaining it. LORD DE ROS said, that sailing vessels, if they were properly ventilated and fitted up, could convey horses with great safety. When he had been connected with the cavalry, horses had been frequently conveyed in that manner. He had known of forty horses being brought home by one transport, without one of them being injured. Horses were formerly put into transports like so much luggage. This was a matter of great importance; and, although he had no doubt that sailing vessels could carry horses, yet, if steamers could be procured, they ought certainly to be in readiness in order to provide against contingencies. WITHDRAWAL OF TROOPS FROM THE WEST INDIA ISLANDS-QUESTION. THE EARL OF DESART rose to inquire of Her Majesty's Government whether an arrangement had not recently been made for the withdrawal of troops from the smaller West India Islands? Their Lordships were aware that those islands were garrisoned by detachments of troops from the head-quarters at Jamaica or Barbadoes. Since the beginning of this year some troops had been withdrawn from the smaller islands, to the great alarm of the white settlers, who were apprehensive of the rising of the black portion of the population. The white settlers did not consider the blacks as well affected towards them, as the blacks looked upon them in the odious light of taskmasters. That these apprehensions were not altogether illfounded was evidenced by an insurrection which had taken place at Tortola in the January of last year. There was no garrison there, and the white residents fled in great dismay, leaving Colonel Chads, who was obliged to send to the nearest place, tory should have to be protected by foreign arms. Great alarm had, in consequence, arisen among the capitalists in these smaller islands, who were unwilling to trust either themselves or their capital in them any longer. He believed that the withdrawal of the troops was, therefore, false economy, as almost the very existence of some of the islands depended upon capital, and the yearly value of the insignificant island of Tortola alone amounted to 10,000l. He wished to know what were the intentions of Her Majesty's Government for the future maintenance of order in these islands? He had heard from private sources, that if Her Majesty's Government thought it was necessary to withdraw these troops from motives of economy, contributions would probably be raised in the islands themselves to defray the additional expense of keeping them, which would not amount to much more than 15,000l. He believed that some of Her Majesty's ships were to touch at these places from time to time; but was it probable that the moral effect of an occasional visit from a ship would preserve order among the disaffected, excitable, and ignorant black population? The Now THE DUKE OF NEWCASTLE: noble Earl has been rightly informed as regards the withdrawal of a detachment of troops from four of the West India Islands, namely, St. Vincent, Tobago, Dominica, and St. Christopher. The noble Earl assigns a reason which, although entering into our consideration, was not the only reason for this measure. He seems to think the sole reason was economy. the reasons for the course pursued were threefold, the ground of expense being the smallest. In the first place it has been found-and it must be obvious at once that it is so-that the discipline and good order of troops, especially in a climate like that of the West Indies, are greatly deteriorated by their being dispersed in small detachments stationed at the various islands. The first reason is therefore of an entirely military character. Another reason is, that these detachments are so extremely more effective for its purpose, and will small (at Tobago, for instance, only num- obviate the evils which have been referred bering eighty-four men), that for any pur- to. Her Majesty's Government have placed pose of external defence they are entirely at the disposal of the Governor of Barbauseless, and worse than useless, because does and the commander of the forces there in time of war they would only present a a steamer for the conveyance of troops, at temptation to privateers to make a descent a moment's notice, to any of the islands upon such islands for the mere purpose of where they may be required. I believe inflicting disgrace upon the arms of this that, by the concentration of the forces, you country. That is a second military reason. will obviate all the evils which I have pointThere is also a civil reason for the measure. ed out; and you will also, I hope, obtain The retention of troops in a colony simply the advantage of producing among the for preserving internal order has a ten- colonists an impression that they must dency to prevent such communities from establish a police force which will not taking measures, which every community merely be adequate to the duties which is bound to adopt, to establish a police force the military have hitherto performed, but in order to prevent or repress internal dis- will be much better fitted for their perturbances. The question of police has formance. The noble Earl is right in been lamentably neglected in these islands. saying that an offer was made by some of Now experience has shown that a military the colonists to contribute 15,000l. if the force, however efficient for the suppression troops were allowed to remain. The payof disturbances, are almost inoperative for ment of that sum would, however, only the purpose of preventing them. The reremove one of the reasons for the concensult of withdrawing the troops from these tration-the saving of expense; and I am islands will be to impose on the colonists sure, if that or a smaller sum is expended the duty they have so long neglected, of in the establishment of an effective police providing themselves with a police force. force, the colonists will have no reason to Then comes the third reason-that of ex- regret the step which has been taken. pense. The maintenance of troops in Your Lordships will find that by the adopsmall detachments is a considerable addi- tion of this plan you will have a much tional expense to the country, on account more efficient military establishment, and of the commissariat establishments, and the will avoid the demoralisation of the troops, cost of transporting the troops. For these which I am sure any one who has been three reasons this measure has been adopt- connected with troops in these islands will ed. The noble Earl (the Earl of Desart) bear me out in saying that I have not exsays, very justly, that considerable doubts aggerated. Let me add that the policy have been entertained as to the effect of which the Government has adopted is not these withdrawals; and I am not surprised to be limited to the West India Islands; that such apprehensions should arise among it is but part of the system of policy to be people who have been accustomed to have pursued in regard to all our colonial possesa military force among them. The com- sions. In Canada, for instance, every effort munities from which the troops are with-is being made to concentrate the troops. drawn will then, however, stand in the Many small posts, which have been mainsame position as others which have never tained since the war, have been removed, had a military force. The noble Earl also and the troops have been withdrawn to referred to a case in which a disturbance more considerable stations. I have myself occurred a short time ago in Tortola. I recently carried out measures of a similar must say that the neglect on the part of character in the island of Mauritius. the local authorities of that island was most opinion is that, as a general rule, it is unculpable, and that upon their heads, in a doubtedly the duty of this country to progreat measure, rests the blame of the dis-tect our colonial possessions from foreign turbance which occurred. The noble Earl aggression at all hazard and all expense; has supposed that I should tell him that but we are not bound to maintain an army Her Majesty's Government propose to meet in every small colony, and in every portion the case by occasionally sending a ship of of a colony-for it really amounts to that, war to visit these islands in order to pro- if you once establish the principle that duce a moral effect upon the black popu- each West India island is entitled to a lation. I can assure him that I do not force to supply the place of police ;-and entertain any such idea; but an arrange- I think we have done right in departing ment has been made which I think will be from such a practice. My EARL GREY said, he fully concurred | concur with him in that opinion that it with the noble Duke in thinking that this was, except under some special and pecucountry was not called upon to provide a liar circumstances, just and reasonable that force for the performance of police duty in the colonists should be required to provide the colonies. He had also no doubt of the at their own cost such forces, whether civil validity of the military reasons which had or military, as might be requisite for the been assigned by the noble Duke for the protection of internal tranquillity, and of withdrawal of the small detachments of their internal police-he would go further, troops; and therefore the measure, if car- and say also for their protection against ried into effect with due precaution and in such measures of aggression as they might a proper manner, appeared to him to be be exposed to in consequence of any acts a judicious one. That such precaution of imprudence of their own. But, upon a had been taken he did not doubt. The parity of reasoning, he thought that the case of the West India Islands differed in colonists had a very strong claim upon the some respects from that of other of our protection of the mother-country against colonies. This country had made great such casualties and calamities as might be sacrifices for the purpose of establishing, brought upon them by the operations of upon the abolition of slavery, well-order- the imperial policy, over which they had ed and industrious communities in those no power of exerting any influence or suislands. The success of the experiment depended upon the small white population being enabled for some years longer to continue in those islands; and if the white planters and higher classes of society were by alarm induced to leave those colonies at an earlier period, he was afraid that they would relapse into a state little better than their original barbarism. He therefore trusted that, in carrying the withdrawal of troops into effect, care had been taken not to give the population any unnecessary alarm; and also to give them time for making any arrangements which the mea sure might render necessary, and to ascertain that the proper time for the withdrawal had come. As it seemed to be a part of the arrangement that the troops should be concentrated in Barbadoes, he hoped that the arrangements for providing for the health of the troops in those barracks, which two years ago were absolutely necessary, had been carried out. At the time he referred to, nothing could be more unsatisfactory, in regard both to drainage and other matters, than the state of those barracks. THE EARL OF ELGIN said, that having had many years' experience in the administration of public affairs in some of the most important dependencies of the British Crown, and therefore having had greater opportunities than most of their Lordships of knowing the feelings and sentiments of the colonists, he would beg to make a few remarks on the general relations which ought to subsist between the colonies and the mother-country in reference to the management of their internal affairs. It was his opinion-and he believed the good sense of the colonists in general would pervision. Such, he thought, was a fair representation of the equity of the case as between the colonists and the mother-country; but at the same time that did not exhaust the whole difficulty of the subject; for it was natural that the people of this country, looking at the vast extent of our colonial empire, and at the progress towards maturity which some parts of that empire were making, should inquire whether the time had not come when some of these young and vigorous communities might contribute something by way of aid and co-operation to the mother-country, in return for the cost and labour which the mother-country had lavished on them during the period of their infancy and childhood. Upon this point, it appeared to him that when this country deliberately abandoned the system of commercial restriction in respect of our colonial empire-which, whatever its other advantages or disadvantages, threw over the economical relations existing between the mother-country and the colonies a veil of mystery that was wholly impenetrable--we left the question in such a position that the maintenance of the connection between the colonies and the mother-country ceased to be either desirable or practicable on any other grounds than those of heartfelt affection and constitutional sympathy on the part of the colonists, and the sense of the advantage of the protection afforded by the mother-country. He believed that the institutions which the colonies now enjoyed under the protection of England were as legitimate objects of affection and pride, as well calculated to promote their material and social well-being, and as favourable to progress, as any institutions which they might expect to obtain in exchange if the connection | poverished. Since the Union, also, so many between them and the mother-country were of the wealthy had left Dublin, that the severed. The contentment and loyalty which now prevailed in Canada, not among one class or race, but among all classes and all races, were, in his opinion, not less the result of the growth of that conviction, than of the belief that the Parliament and Government of this country were prepared to entrust the colonists with the powers of self-government and the control of their internal affairs. He was sanguine enough to hope that, if no untoward accidents should occur to mar the good feeling which now existed, we should, at the proper time, find that the colonies which were advancing to maturity were conscious of the responsibility which attached to them; and that, in a righteous cause, for the defence of the weak against the strong, of the oppressed against the oppressor, of the victim against the persecutor, they would show that they were anxious to share the glories of Englishmen, and were not unwilling to partake of their sacrifices and their burdens. House adjourned till To-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Thursday, February 23, 1854. MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS-1 Islington Cattle DUBLIN HOSPITALS. inhabitants of that city were no longer able to contribute as they had done to its charitable institutions, which, however, at the present time needed more support than ever, since, although the wealthy had departed, the poor had remained; and, although Dublin was no longer the residence of the great and powerful, it was at least the asylum for the weak and oppressed. With regard to the institutions themselves, having on a former occasion gone into considerable detail as to the accommodation which they were capable of affording, he did not think it was necessary to trespass on the attention of the House by going over the same ground again. He might simply remark, that the great number of patients relieved in them every year was a sufficient proof of their value and importance to the suffering poor. It appeared from a Parliamentary paper on the table of the House, that during a period of three years no fewer than 46,460 persons were admitted into the various hospitals of Dublin. These hospitals were of the greatest utility as medical schools, and in that point of view alone the question was deserving of consideration, for if the hospitals were allowed to go to decay, the medical students would only have the poor-houses to resort to as schools of practice. The consequence of the rule which had been adopted had been severely felt in a social point of view in Dublin, for it was found that, in consequence of the reduction of the grants, and the consequent diminution of hospital accommodation, many individuals had committed crime for the sole purpose of being sent to gaol, and obtaining there that medical relief which had formerly been supplied by the hospitals. Ho held in his hand a letter from the governor of one of the Dublin gaols, in which he gave a long list of persons whom he had MR. GROGAN, in moving for a Committee of Inquiry into the grants made to the Dublin hospitals, said, he felt he should not be doing his duty to his constituents, if he omitted to take another opportunity of endeavouring to arrest the gradual and certain destruction of the hospitals and medical schools of Dublin, if the diminution of the usual grants were persevered in. The position of those hospitals, compared with that of some kindred institutions in Eng-questioned as to the cause of their being land, would be seen when he stated, for example, that St. Bartholomew's and St. Thomas's hospitals in London had respectively an income of 32,000l. and 25,000l. a year from land conveyed to them by the Crown; while the five or six hospitals in Dublin had only about 12,000l. a year among them. Previously to the Union between this country and Ireland all the hospitals but one in Ireland were supported by Government grants, but since then many of such grants had been discontinued, and the hospitals necessarily im sent to prison, and who avowed having committed crime from a desire to obtain medical accommodation in gaol. Before the reduction of the grants such a cause of crime had never been heard of, and it became then a serious question for that House to consider whether so dangerous a state of things could be allowed to continue. There had been a great deal of agitation in Dublin on the subject; petitions had been presented from all the various local Boards against the diminution of the grants, and, in fact, all men in that respect were of one mind. The present Lord Lieu- | could be justified the proved utility of the tenant, on his arrival in Ireland, expressed charity receiving them, the improbability a very decided opinion in favour of their of its being kept up by private contribumaintenance. His Excellency on that oc- tions alone, and the strictest economy of casion expressed a hope that there would expenditure; and he could only say that be no further diminution of the grants; he was quite willing that the continuance and in the month of February last year, of all the present grants should rest on in replying to the address from the corpo- these conditions. No attempt was made ration of Dublin, the noble Earl acknow- to follow up the recommendation of the ledged that the charitable institutions of Select Committee till the year 1842, when that city had peculiar claims to the aid Earl de Grey, the then Lord Lieutenant of which they received from the public purse. Ireland, appointed a Commission of three There was another reason why a portion gentlemen of high independence and imof the public funds should go to the sup- partiality, and in every respect competent port of the Dublin hospitals. It appeared to discharge the duty entrusted to them, from a Parliamentary paper, that the ave- to conduct the proposed investigation. The rage number of men in the garrison of Commissioners examined minutely every Dublin during the year 1849 was 5,988, detail connected with the state and maof whom 628 were assisted in one of the nagement of the Dublin hospitals, and in city hospitals; in 1850 the average num- their Report, while they suggested some ber of men in garrison was 5,916, of whom alterations and improvements in the work578 were admitted into the hospital in ing of the institutions, they recommended question; in 1851 the number in garrison that the grants should neither be dimiwas 5,444, in hospital 523; and in 1852 nished nor abolished, basing their recomthe average number of men in garrison mendation on the very grounds laid down was 6,232, and in the hospital 545. He by the Select Committee of 1829 as those therefore asked if it was fair that the citi- upon which the continuance of the grants zens of Dublin should be obliged to pro- could alone be justified-the proved utility vide hospital accommodation for Her Ma- of the institutions, the improbability of jesty's troops? All the hospitals to which their being maintained by private endowhe was anxious to direct attention, with ments or the voluntary contributions of the exception of one, were established pre- the citizens of Dublin, and the introducvious to the Union with England. In the tion of the strictest economy into every articles of the Treaty of Union there was department of the management. At the a stipulation to the effect that the grants time when that Report was made, the promade to the Dublin hospitals should be perty of the city of Dublin was valued at continued for a period of twenty years. between 700,000l. and 800,000l. a year; The Imperial Parliament continued these it was now less than 600,000l., and consegrants not only for twenty years, but for a quently the local charities had now more much longer period of time, and even as- need of public aid. It would perhaps be sisted in the establishment of other chari- remembered that at a former period, when table institutions-a circumstance which the subject was under consideration, the showed that in the view of the Govern- Government said they were unable to rement of the day Dublin had just claims, sist the Report of the Commissioners, that in consequence of the injury it had sus- it was very strong and favourable, but that tained by the loss of its Parliament and the local interests and feelings of the genthe withdrawal of its wealthier classes to tlemen who had drawn it up might perhaps London. However, in the year 1817, the have prejudiced their judgment. That such system of consolidation and centralisation an objection might not be taken now, he began to be acted upon by that House, asked the House to appoint a Committee and had continued to be acted upon ever of independent English gentlemen, and he since, and reductions were made in most was prepared to abide by the opinion they of the grants. In 1829 a Select Com- might form after a full investigation of the mittee was appointed to inquire into the matter. The Select Committee appointed miscellaneous expenditure of the country, in 1847 to investigate the miscellaneous and they recommended that the Irish Go- expenditure recommended that the grants vernment should institute a strict inquiry to the Dublin hospitals should be subjected into the system on which they were dis- to a process of gradual diminution of 10 tributed, and also laid down as a basis per cent. with a view to their ultimate aboupon which alone the continuance of them lition, a decision diametrically opposed to |