Bouverie, Lord John Russell, and Sir
James Graham.

SLIGO ELECTION.

which, he had no hesitation in saying, if it were submitted to any Court of Justice in the country, and if it were found true, would be treated as a gross contempt of MR. I. BUTT said, that in pursuance Court, and be punished accordingly. The of the notice he had given he would now petitioner in this case came forward premove that a Select Committee be appoint- pared, on his own responsibility, to prove ed to take into consideration the petition all his allegations, and he (Mr. Butt) of John Patrick Somers. The petition would be betraying his duty to the House had been printed with the Votes, and con- if he had not asked them to grant an sequently hon. Members were in posses- investigation. If, upon inquiry, it turned sion of the facts of the case. The alle out that the allegations were true, it would gation stated in it was, that an attempt be for the House to consider what steps had been made by the present sitting it would take to vindicate its own authoMember, or, at least, by persons profess-rity; and he must say that, after allowing ing to be agents of the sitting Member, these allegations to be printed and to go to tamper with the witnesses of the peti- forth to the public, it would not be just tioner. He believed that this Motion to the parties themselves that no investigawould be seconded by the hon. Member tion should take place. He hoped, therefor Sligo (Mr. Sadleir) himself, and this fore, that the House would not acquiesce made him feel that the better course would in the views or bow to the authority of be, anticipating no opposition, to move for the right hon. Gentleman, but would grant the inquiry without any statement. It was an inquiry, in justice to others implicated enough for him to say, that the allegations in the transaction, but whom he had not of the petition disclosed a state of facts named. At all events, if the hon. Genwhich, in the case of any tribunal exer- tleman divided the House, and if he succising judicial functions, would be a con- ceeded in defeating this Motion, he (Mr. tempt of Court, and would be punished as Butt) would have the consolation of hav such. In no respect, however, did he holding done his duty in bringing this matter himself personally responsible for the state- under their consideration. ments of the petition.

MR. JOHN SADLEIR said, he begged to second the Motion. The petition was presented in the course of last Session, and he had then repudiated all knowledge of the transactions. He had now only to repeat that statement, and, of course, he was most anxious that the matter should be submitted to the strictest investigation, and at the earliest possible period.

MR. GOULBURN said, he had very considerable doubt whether a Committee of that House was the proper tribunal to investigate the charges contained in the petition. If subornation of perjury had been committed, the parties were liable to be punished by the regular tribunals, and he would submit, therefore, to the consideration of those who took an interest in the regularity of the proceedings of that House whether it would not be best to decline to enter into an endless inquiry of this nature, but to leave the parties to proceed by the usual course of law.

MR. I. BUTT said, he did not think it would be right, if subornation of perjury had been committed, that the House should leave the vindication of the honour of its own proceedings to the chance of a private prosecution. Here was an allegation VOL. CXXX. [THIRD SERIES.]

MR. GOULBURN said, he had no intention of dividing the Ilouse, but had merely wished to point out the inexpediency of going into an inquiry of this sort before a Select Committee.

MR. T. GREENE said, he regretted that the right hon. Gentleman did not mean to divide the House, because he agreed with him that, as it was perfectly competent for the parties to proceed for subornation of perjury in any of the ordinary tribunals of the country, it was not fitting to involve a Committee of that House in a prolonged and useless inquiry.

MR. BENTINCK said, that during the short time he had been in Parliament he did not remember a single instance in which, it being proposed to inquire into the conduct of any Member on his side of the House, hon. Members opposite had not been most eager in pushing on an inquiry; while, on the contrary, if an hon. Gentleman on the opposite side of the House was attacked, every effort was used by the majority opposite to do away with all inquiry. For that reason he should certainly support the Motion Motion agreed to. The House adjourned at half after Six o'clock.

L

II OUSE OF LORDS,

Tuesday, February 7, 1854.

MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILL.-1a Pew Rents.

RAILWAY ACCIDENTS-QUESTION. LORD MONTEAGLE, seeing the noble Lord the Vice-President of the Board of Trade in his place, would take the liberty of putting to him a question of very great and peculiar interest to the public at the present moment.

I that they were likely to have the additional remedy of efficient legislation on the subject. As for the excuses and apologies which were offered by the companies for these accidents, he attached to them no importance whatever. They were asked to compare the number of accidents with the number of persons who travelled, and were told that the proportion between the numbers of casualties and of passengers was so small that they should pass the question by with indifference. He could in no IIe alluded to the ques-way recognise such a doctrine. Was it a tion of the great increase of railway acci- consolation to 500 who had suffered, that dents in this country. Day by day-above they might be 500 out of 2,000,000 or all, during the last year-the number of 20,000,000? for he contended that so long accidents had been increasing, and the con- as accidents occurred which it was in the sequences of many of those accidents had power of wise legislation or proper adminbeen most deplorable. He had reason to istration to avert, they should not discharge know from what had occurred elsewhere, their duty if they did not inquire-if necesthat it was the intention of Her Majesty's sary, legislate also. It was not the relaGovernment to introduce some legislative tive proportion between the number that measure on this subject. He was sure the travelled, and the number of those injured public would owe them much gratitude for they ought to look to, but the positive daundertaking such a task; but the Members mage to limb and the loss of life that were of their Lordships' House ought to be placed produced by railway accidents. He would in a position to be able to judge of that Bill now take the liberty of asking his noble when it came before them. A provision Friend whether there was any objection to was, he believed, made by law that all those lay before the House, with as much deoccurrences should be reported to the Go-spatch as possible, the returns of railway vernment, and there existed in the department with which his noble Friend was connected the materials that would enable them to make these reports. A very considerable time had, however, elapsed since the House had received any efficient return on the subject; he not only thought it was important that Parliament should have these returns now laid before them, but that periodically, as the occasions should arise, the Government should undertake to give them this information hereafter. He was persuaded that there would never be an effectual responsibility unless public attention was constantly and promptly called to the facts; because an accident that had occurred twelve months ago would not excite even in the minds of their Lordships the same attention as if it had been reported on in the course of the week succeeding the occurrence. The only effectual steps that had been taken, the country owed to his noble and learned Friend the Lord Chief Justice, for which the public owed him deep gratitude; but, next to his noble Friend, the most effectual means to avert or to punish these accidents were afforded by the public newspapers. They had done their duty well by calling immediate attention to these casualties; but he was rejoiced to think

accidents from the last return that had been made up to the present period; and, whether, hereafter, Her Majesty's Government would give Parliament information from time to time with respect to those matters ?

EARL FITZWILLIAM begged, before the noble Lord the Vice-President of the Board of Trade proceeded to answer the question that had been put to him, to suggest to the noble Lord whether it might not be desirable, if there was legislation on the subject, that the legislation should begin in their Lordships' House rather than in the other House of Parliament. He would not take upon himself to say why he thought so, but he would leave it to the silent contemplation of their Lordships, with the conviction that the reasons would suggest themselves to their Lordships, though it was not very desirable that any Member of that House should state those reasons openly. He begged to ask the noble Lord if IIer Majesty's Government had taken into consideration whether it would not be desirable that the legislation upon this subject should begin in their Lordships' House?

LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY could assure their Lordships that Her Ma

jesty's Government were deeply sensible would enable them to render great service of the great importance of the subject; to the public in this matter. There was they viewed with deep concern the numer- hardly a railway company in England that ous accidents that occurred, and were as was not constantly coming to Parliament anxious as any of their Lordships to adopt for fresh powers of some kind or other. some effective mode for remedying the evil. In the present Session a number of appliHis right hon. Friend the President of the cations would be made to Parliament for Board of Trade (Mr. Cardwell) had already extensive additional powers from various given notice in the other House of Parlia- lines of railways. Now, he thought it ment of his intention to introduce a mea- would be of great advantage if their Lordsure which, he hoped, would have the effect ships were to come to a determination that of correcting some of the evils of which in all those cases in which railway comthe public complained; and the fact that panies applied for additional powers, they notice had already been given in the other would not consent to grant those powers House, and that a Committee had sat upon without a thorough inquiry into the manner the subject last year, and had inquired into in which the powers already possessed by and reported on it, appeared to afford a those companies had been used, and whereason why the Bill should be introduced ther they had been used for the public in the other House rather than in the benefit, and without inserting in the Bills House of Lords. With regard to the ques- such clauses as might be necessary for the tion of the noble Lord relative to a return efficient protection of the public. If they being made of the number of accidents that adopted a rule of that kind, he was perhad occurred, and the correspondence that suaded that they would in a very short had taken place, he could assure him that time carry their object practically into the matter had been fully considered, and force, not by any general measure of legisit appeared to his right hon. Friend and lation, but by a clause introduced on the himself that there could be no objection to same uniform principle, and in that estabcomply with such an application as had lish adequate protection for the public. been made by his noble Friend; but, on the This was a matter of consequence, not only contrary, that great advantage would re- on account of railway accidents, but besult from it. They had before them the blue cause the Postmaster General had informed book, containing a report of the accidents them that the power which he possessed over in 1852-it was presented in August, but railways was perfectly inadequate to enable did not come into their Lordships' hands him to effect the due performance of his until the present meeting of Parliament- duty. If that were the case, let them grant and he purposed that not only should the no amalgamation Bill-let them give no report since the last return be laid before new powers-without making it a condition their Lordships, but that from time to for granting those powers that the comtime, as accidents occurred, a return of pany requiring them shall do what is rethem should be immediately laid upon the quisite for the convenience and security of tables of the two Houses of Parliament, the public. Again, was there one of their at such periods in the course of the Ses- Lordships conversant with railway managesion as should be found necessary. ment who was not aware of the very great abuses that exist upon the subject? blue book to which his noble Friend had adverted, was full of the most remarkable evidence respecting the gross abuses that prevailed upon railways-how companies. were fighting with each other to the injury of the public interests; or how a company, having got possession of a line where they thought there was no opposition, made the most unreasonable demands upon the public or withheld from the public proper accommodation. There was a case of this kind; for instance, if you paid for 300 miles you were charged a certain price, but if you paid for 60 miles further, you paid a great deal less; so that a person was obliged to pay something more because he did not go

EARL GREY said, that the reason which his noble Friend (Lord Stanley) had given for introducing a general measure of legislation in the other House, rather than in their Lordships', might be a good one; but he could not help thinking that there was much force in what had fallen from his noble Friend on the cross benches (Earl Fitzwilliam), and knowing the circumstance to which he alluded, he owned he was not very sanguine that they would have sent up to that Ilouse from the other a Bill that would effectually meet the public interests upon this important subject. He could not help suggesting to their Lordships that they had power in their hands (if they thought fit to exercise it) which

That

the additional 60 miles. They had these things brought before them; but owing to the circumstance to which his noble Friend on the cross benches (Earl Fitzwilliam) had so significantly alluded, it was extremely doubtful whether any general measure of legislation would pass which would put a stop to those abuses; and, therefore, he thought their Lordships would not do their duty if they did not come to a resolution that they would not grant additional powers to any existing railway company without a preliminary inquiry into their administration of the powers which they already possessed, and without introducing into new Bills such clauses as were necessary for the convenience and protection of the public.

or police sergeant, or porter, had gone to the station-master and asked his advice, and went by his orders, it was said the stationmaster had no authority from the company to give those orders; they were unlawful, and the company, as a corporation, cannot be liable for acts done by their servants beyond the scope of their authority. It was necessary that the company, as a company, should be responsible for all that was done by their servants, when the servants were believed or supposed to be acting within the scope of their authority; and without such an enactment justice could not be done. There was another point to which he would also call attention, and it had reference to actions on contract, or for false imprisonment. For example, when an action on contract was brought against a railway company, they said, "By the law we are a corporation, and we can only contract under the corporation seal;" and unless it could be shown that the contract was under the seal of the company, the plaintiff was nonsuited. There were some exceptions with regard to municipal corporations. They might hire a cook-such was the early necessity for culinary serviceswithout the contract being under seal; but the general rule was, that a corporation could only contract under the corporation seal. He would suggest to his noble Friend, whether that technicality of the corporation seal should not be dispensed with, and that wherever a contract was entered into by those who are the real agents of the corporation, they should be liable, without any such technicality as requiring the corporation seal.

LORD CAMPBELL was of opinion that new legislation on the subject was indispensably necessary. He frequently had occasion to lament that the existing law was not sufficient to protect the lives of Her Majesty's subjects as regarded railways; but he hoped they would have some more effective mode of doing it than that which had been just suggested by his noble Friend. It would be a libel upon the House of Commons to suppose that there was any interest, however powerful or overwhelming, that would overwhelm the cause of justice; and he trusted that, before the present Session elapsed, there would be a Bill passed by both Houses of Parliament which might do justice to the country. That Bill ought certainly to be introduced by Her Majesty's Government, and he would most willingly lend his aid in assisting them in the object which they all had in view. For that purpose there were two points to which he would beg leave to draw their Lordships' notice, in which he THE EARL OF HARDWICKE said, it had found the present law was defective. had been his intention to put a question to One was respecting the liability of the ser- the noble Earl at the head of the Governvants of the companies for acts they did ment, of which he had given notice, rebeyond what might be legally and strictly specting the state and condition of the considered within the scope of their autho- Navy List; but as to that question he might rity. The Judges had determined-and simply get an answer in the negative, he he must suppose wisely-that a railway would, with the permission of their Lordcompany was never liable for anything ships, change his course of proceeding, that was done by any of the servants of and merely pro forma conclude with a the company that was unlawful. It had Motion for a Committee. This question happened over and over again that persons had assumed rather more importance, travelling by railway had been imprisoned owing to the circumstances that had ocat stations, and treated in the most bar-curred since the last meeting of Parliabarous manner; and when an action was ment. He would say, at the outset, that brought against the company, they said he had not the slightest intention to give they gave no orders to warrant that pro- offence he felt sure, notwithstanding ceeding, and the plaintiff was nonsuited. anything he might say in reference to this Where it had happened that the policeman question, that there was not one of his

STATE OF THE NAVY LIST.