which I now forget the name, on the religion, manners, government, and language of the early Greeks. "For there," says he, “ you will learn everything of importance that is contained in the Iliad and Odyssey, without the trouble of reading two such tedious books." Alas! it had not occurred to the poor gentleman, that all the knowledge to which he attached so much value was useful only as it illustrated the great poems which he despised and would be as worthless for any other purpose as the mythology of Caffraria, or the vocabulary of Otaheite.

EXTRACTS FROM THE EVIDENCE GIVEN BEFORE THE ENGLISH PUBLIC SCHOOLS' COMMISSION.

Evidence of Professor William B. Carpenter.

Q. I believe, Dr. Carpenter, you are Registrar of the London University?-A. I am. Q. How long have you been Registrar? -A. Six years. Q. I believe you are likewise a member of the Council of the Royal Society?—A. Yes. Q. Have you been able to form any opinion as to the use of the physical sciences, as a training of the mind, as compared with pure mathematics?—A. I think that their function is quite different. I think that each is a supplement to the other. I should be very sorry to see either left It appears to me, that the use of the physical sciences is to train a class of mental faculties, which are ignored, so to speak, by a purely classical or a purely mathematical training, or by both combined. The observation of external phenomena, and the exercise of the reasoning faculties upon such phenomena, are matters altogether left out of the ordinary public-school education. I am speaking of schools in which classics and mathematics are the sole means of mental discipline. Mathematical training is limited to one very special kind of mental action.

out.

Q. In the schools?—A. I mean that mathematical training exercises the mind most strenuously in a very narrow groove, so to speak. It starts with axioms which have nothing to do with external phenomena, but which the mind finds in itself; and the whole science of mathematics may be evolved out of the original axioms which the mind finds in itself. I do not go into the question, whether they are intuitive, or whether they are generalizations of phenomena, found at a very early age; in either case, the mind finds it in itself. Now, it is the essence of scientific training, that the mind finds the objects of its study in the external world. As Bacon says, Homo minister et interpres natura; so it appears to me, that a training which leaves out of view the relation of man to external nature is a very defective one, and that the faculties which bring his intelligence into relation with the phenomena of the external world are subjects for education and discipline equally

important with the faculties by which he exercises his reason purely upon abstractions.

2. Then you consider that the mind, if it only had the training that could be given by close study of classics and of pure mathematics, has not had so great an advantage in training, as if the study of physical science had been added ?—A. I am quite of that opinion; and I may add, that, having given considerable attention to the reputed phenomena of mesmerism, electro-biology, spiritualism, &c., I have had occasion to observe, that the want of scientific habits of mind is the source of a vast amount of prevalent misconception as to what constitutes adequate proof of the marvels reported by witnesses, neither untruthful nor unintelligent as to ordinary matters. I could name striking instances of such misconception in men of high literary cultivation, or high mathematical attainments ; whilst I have met with no one, who had undergone the discipline of an adequate course of scientific study, who has not at once recognised the fallacies in such testimony when they have been pointed out to him.

Q. I observe, Dr. Carpenter, that your matriculation examinations do not take place till the applicant is past sixteen? A. Yes. Q. Being of that age, you see great benefit in making natural philosophy and chemistry part of that examination, in addition to a certain examination in classics; and you consider that not merely as fitting a boy for success in the active business of life, but also as a means of training the mind, and that much benefit results from such combination. I should like to ask you, whether you consider that similar recommendations exist to the introduction of physical sciences at an early age? You applied your observations to your own candidates for matriculation?-A. I think that there is great advantage in commencing very early. I have commenced with my own children at a very early period in training their observing faculties, simply to recognise and to understand, and to describe correctly what they see, showing them simple experiments, and desiring them to write down an account of them; and, from my own experience, I should say, that a boy of ten years old is quite capable of understanding a very large proportion of what is here set down under the head of natural philosophy.

2. Is there not a danger of disturbing the power of sustained attention, if too many subjects of instruction are brought before boys at an early age?-A. I think that very much depends on the manner in which it is done. A good teacher need never forfeit the training of sustained attention by directing the attention to the facts of nature, because the attention is as healthfully exercised in what is going on before the child, as it is in the study of a book.

Q. Were you at a public school yourself?—A. I was not.

2. You were at a large classical school, were you not ?-A. I was brought up in a private school. Q. A large school?—A. About twenty was the average number.

2. Should you, from your experience as a boy, confirm the opinion

you have now expressed?-A. In the school in which I was brought up, all these subjects were taught systematically; and I certainly believe, that there was no deficiency there of power of attention, and that the training which was given in classics and mathematicswhich was a very substantial one-was not at all impaired by the attention to these other subjects.

Q. At what age did attention to these subjects commence at your school?-A. I should think that about twelve years might be taken as the average. Q. Have you any practical acquaintance with the system of our public schools?-A. Not practically: I know the system generally. Q. You know the amount of time, perhaps, given to particular subjects, speaking generally?—A. Yes.

Q. Have you formed any opinion as to whether it would be desirable to diminish the proportion of time given, say to classics or mathematics, for the purpose of introducing physical science?— A. I have formed an opinion, that at the earlier age, say from ten to twelve or thirteen, the amount of study given to classics may be advantageously diminished. I have been led to conclude, from considerable opportunities of observation, that those who have commenced classics later than usual, and have been of average intelligence, have, by the age of sixteen, acquired as good a classical knowledge as those who have begun earlier,-whose minds have been fixed upon classical study for two or three years longer. I may state, that that is quite the opinion of many gentlemen of very large experience in education; and, I believe, I may quote Professor Pillans, of Edinburgh, as entertaining it. Dr. Hodgson, who had for a long time a large public school in the neighbourhood of Manchester, wrote a pamphlet some years ago in defence of that opinion.. I could quote several instances of young men who have shown very remarkable proficiency in classical study at the age of sixteen and seventeen, who began very late-at thirteen and fourteen. Q. I understand you to attach very high importance to the philosophical study of language?-A. Yes. Q. And to its being commenced early?—Yes. Q. I believe you are author of works called "The Principles of Physiology, General and Comparative,” “The Microscope and its Revelations," and of "An Introduction to the Study of Foraminifera"?-A. Yes.

2. Do you consider that your taste for those studies was awakened at school?-A. My taste for physical and chemical science was certainly awakened at school. The training that I had in my school-course, and the advantages which I had of attending lectures at the Philosophical Institution at Bristol, at the time that I was going through that course, certainly tended to develop my taste for science generally. At that time, I knew next to nothing of natural history; and I suppose it was the circumstance of my having entered the medical profession, and being led to seek for scientific culture in the subjects on which medicine is founded, that caused me to direct my attention to natural history' and physiology—physiology as based on natural history, in fact.

2. You were likewise instructed in mathematics at school?— A. Yes. 2. Had you any occasion to observe at school that there was one class of minds which had a great aptitude for mathematics, another for the physical sciences, and another for the classics; so that there were three different types of mental intelligence?A. Yes.

2. Do you not consider, that it is an injury to a boy who may have a turn for the sciences of observation, or for other natural sciences, that he has no instruction in them whatever up to the time he is eighteen-up to the time of his going to the University? A. I feel that very strongly. I am quite satisfied that there is such a class of minds. I see it in the candidates for our degrees in sciences. Though the degrees have only been instituted two or three years, yet I am quite certain, from what I have seen of those who have become candidates for them, that there is a very decided aptitude for physical sciences; and that those generally are persons who have a distaste for classics. I may say, with regard to myself, that I never had any taste for classics. I went through a very long course of classical training; and I feel very strongly indeed the value of the discipline which it gave_me: but I never, as a boy, had any taste for classics (though now I can come back and read a classical author with pleasure), because I was weary of the drudgery of the ordinary routine of instruction (to which Í had been subjected from an unusually early age), whilst at sixteen my mind was not sufficiently advanced in that direction to appreciate the higher beauties of a classical author. For instance, I could then read the "Prometheus;" but I did not understand its argument.

2. It would be an injury to the mental capital of a nation, so to say, to give no instruction to boys in the physical sciences up to eighteen?-A. I should certainly consider that it leaves that branch of the mental faculties, which every individual has in a certain degree, uncultivated, and would leave without cultivation those powers which certain individuals have in a very remarkable degree.

2. Is it not the case, that there are some boys at school who have only a slight aptitude for classical studies, who have an aptitude for the sciences of observation and the experimental sciences? -A. I am quite certain of that. I have five sons; and, in their education, I endeavour to train what I perceive to be the special aptitude of each. Thus, my eldest son has shown a decided aptitude for the physical and chemical sciences: he has taken his Bachelor of Arts degree in the University, and has now taken that of Bachelor of Science. He took the Bachelor of Arts degree, because, at that time, there was no degree in science; he went through the classical training required for it, but his whole bent is for the exact sciences. On the other hand, my second son has as strong a turn for literary culture as my eldest son has for scientific, and I have encouraged that just as I would the scientific culture

taking care, however, in each case, that the other subjects were not neglected.

Q. I think you mentioned that you considered that the study of physical science at an early age was conducive to the cultivation of the intellectual faculties as well as of the senses?—A. I think so, decidedly, if it is rightly taught. I think very much depends upon the teacher.

Q. Do you think that the mind, ordinarily speaking, is as apt for the exercise of its faculties upon the subjects of natural science as upon grammar and mathematical subjects at the early period of life?---A. I should say, more so; that it is more easy to fix a child's attention upon something which it sees than upon an abstraction.

Q. Do you think that in that point of view, in fact, it is so far a subject better calculated to call out a healthy action of the reasoning powers than the more abstract subjects of grammar and mathematics?-A. I think it is at the early period. I think that a lad of from ten to twelve years of age is better fitted to be led to observe and reason upon what he observes in objective phenomena than he is to reason upon abstractions. I think that, from say twelve years of age, the powers may be healthfully exercised upon abstractions; but, as far as I can judge, a child in learning a language learns by rote purely, or almost purely, up to say twelve years of age; but after that he begins, if he is well taught, to understand the rationale (so to speak) of the rules; but it is a mere matter of memory with him up to that time.

Q. In fact, you doubt whether, in the cultivation of language the reasoning powers are much exercised at all at that time?-A. Yes.

2. Have you been sufficiently in company with youths emerging from childhood to say whether there is, in your opinion, at all a natural curiosity which arises at that time for the observation and comprehension of the phenomena of nature?—A. I should say there is. I have seen a great deal of youths of different ages in the course of my life. I have been always interested in education, and have seen and known a great deal of what takes place in education among the humbler classes; and amongst them there is most decidedly a. readiness of observation, and a readiness of power of apprehension and of reasoning upon phenomena of nature, which shows that that must be universal.

2. Have you observed, that, besides that power, there is a curiosity with regard to the phenomena, and an interest in that sense with regard to the phenomena of the outward world?—A. I think there is, if it is not repressed. My opinion is, that the tendency of public-school education is to repress all that curiosity, to withdraw the attention so completely from those subjects that it has no development.

2. With regard to the study of language, I think you said, that you had had some opportunity of observing that youths who began later could make so much progress, owing to the different state of