he will trust Providence no more, as though Providence were no longer able to save us since the discovery of steam, for by steam the French may cross the Channel, although hitherto they have barely succeeded in crossing the Atlantic. I agree with the opinion expressed by my hon. Friend the Member for the West Riding with respect to the speech of the noble Lord at the head of the Government. I believe that speech is calculated to do infinite mischief in France, for, although cautiously worded, it indicates that we are full of jealousy and suspicion of the French people. The noble Lord talks of maintaining the independence of the country; but is there a single individual in this House, or in the country, who imagines that we are in any danger of losing our national independence through foreign aggression? There is, however, a source of national independence which I greatly fear the policy of the Government, as explained to-night, is calculated to destroy. If the people are ground down with taxation-if they are led to believe that this House is careless of economy, and only regards the people in the light of a class from whom it can raise taxes-if a what he considered proper for ours, than as intending to draw a comparison for any antagonistic purpose. He regretted these allusions the more because there was no necessity for the noble Lord to have said anything upon the subject. The additional sum required was so very small that a less honest Minister might have put it into the estimates, and have slurred it over altogether. There was no reason whatever for believing that there was any likelihood of the peace between this country and France being disturbed; although he saw no great objection to the people of England being made somewhat more accustomed to military training than they were at present. The system prevailed with good effect in Prussia, and he saw no reason why it should be at all injurious to the domestic habits of the people of this country. Some men appeared to think that from the very fact of our having long been at peace we must necessarily come to war. But this long peace had taught the world the value and power of peace, and that it was by peace alone that the liberties of the world could be permanently secured, however necessary it might be under certain circumstances for a nation to be pre-feeling of this kind is awakened, and the pared for war. MR. BRIGHT said: Even at this late hour I must ask the attention of the House for a short time, partly because I feel strongly on the question before the House, and partly because I represent the population amongst whom the most formidable demonstration against increasing the military expenditure has been made. From the Notice paper, I had concluded that tonight we were to hear a financial statement somewhat of the character of those to which for some years past we have been accustomed a statement bearing chiefly upon the commercial position of the country; but instead of that, we have had a long speech, for the most part devoted to military topics-a speech that should have come from the noble Lord at the head of Foreign Affairs, or from some one connected with the military department. The hon. Baronet the Member for the University of Oxford has taken a curious course on this occasion, and has displayed a want of faith which one would hardly look for in the representative of the Church. He has given us several cases from English history in which, by the care of Providence this country has been preserved from invasion. I should have thought these instances would have given confidence to the hon. Baronet; but now confidence of the nation in the Government is lost; if there is ever an invasion, it will be when from these causes there is schism and discontent among ourselves, and when you will not have an united people opposed to any inroad that may threaten you. With respect to the proposal for increased taxes, I feel bound to tell the noble Lord and his Colleague what is the condition of Lancashire. In that county, the most populous, and ordinarily, the most wealthy in the kingdom, the manufacturers and spinners, and, indeed, every class of the people, are suffering from a series of losses altogether unexampled in the history of the cotton trade. In nearly every cotton mill in that county, certainly in the coarser branches of the trade, it is a notorious fact, that during the last twelve months the whole amount of wages paid to the workpeople has been taken from the capital of the employers; and I believe there is scarcely an employer engaged in the staple trade of the county, who has not paid his income-tax upon a loss amounting to more than the assumed profit upon which the income-tax was charged. This, surely, then is not the time when the military expenditure of the country should be increased for the purpose of meeting an imaginary enemy; and this increase of taxes for such a purpose is as unjustifiable as it - a Go will be deemed oppressive. As to the ties on transfers. But other property bemode of raising this additional taxation, sides land is burdened with heavy stamp I may remark that I should not oppose duties. Bills of exchange pay more than direct taxation, if any necessity for an half a million a year in stamps, and the increase were shown. You have long ago stamps are heavy upon transfers of railway reached the limit of indirect taxation; stock, and of other descriptions of property. that is admitted on all sides; and you are There is no pretence whatever for the exapproaching the limit of direct taxation; emption of land from these duties, for in and if this constant increase of arma- reality the largest estates in the country ments is to go on, the people will soon are rarely sold, but pass without duties of have little to choose between being eaten any kind from one proprietor to his succesup by the French, and devoured by the sor. I can assure the Government that military expenditure of their own coun- the announcement they have made totry. But if the income-tax is to be night will give great dissatisfaction throughmade a permanent tax-and the Chancel-out the country. I said on a former oclor of the Exchequer has informed us casion that the Government was that it is to be permanent how is it vernment of the middle classes, and the Ministers do not propose to place it on a hon. Member for Buckinghamshire smiled footing more equitable to all classes of at the statement; but I am bold to tell the community? Why is the income him, that if it cease to be a Government from trades and professions to be charged in unison with the sentiment of the middle at the same rate as that from realised classes, it will soon be no Government property? The inequality and the injus- at all. The present Administration came tice are admitted; and if the tax is to be a into power by no virtues or exertions of permanent one, why is the injustice not re- their own. They were brought in by a medied? I can tell the Government of lucky accident, and because at the moa tax to which they might have had ment there was nobody else for it. They recourse with much greater propriety than should recollect that a Government that to an increased income-tax, and that is the came in by accident, may be destroyed by imposition of the probate and legacy du- blunders. The noble Lord and his Colties on real property. To collect 2,500,000l. leagues remind me of the religious order of sterling from these duties on personal pro- La Trappe, who are said to have employed perty alone, and to allow landed estates to themselves diligently in digging their own pass from father to son without paying graves; and so mindful were they of their any tax whatever, is a gross and palpable mortality, that when two members of the injustice, and one which it is most dis-order met, their greeting was-and I recreditable in the Government to overlook.commend it to the Members of the GoI will give the House an instance where vernment-one of them said, "We must the same property has paid these duties all die;" and the rejoinder was, "I know three times within the space of six years. it." If the Government suppose they can I have known all the parties, and I know do in 1848, with respect to foreign affairs the facts. A gentleman died in 1834, leaving property to one of his sons. The son died in 1838, leaving the same property to his mother, who survived him. The mother died in 1840, leaving the same property to her children. This property, then, coming thus circuitously from the father to a son who now holds it, has paid probate and legacy duty no less than three times in the space of six years. No less a sum than 70,000,000l. sterling had been drawn from personal property since these duties were imposed, while the landed property of the country has been left entirely untouched. I know what will be said in answer to this, and the hon. Member for Warwickshire has it already upon his lips. It will be said, the land is burdened with expensive stamp du and warlike armaments, what was done thirty or forty years ago, they commit the most egregious blunder that statesmen were ever guilty of; and I am convinced, from what I know of the public feeling on these subjects, that by the course they are now taking, they are placing themselves in direct opposition to that large party in the country by whom they have hitherto been supported, and without whose confidence they must speedily fall. MR. NEWDEGATE thought the Ministry had really much reason to complain of the manner in which they were treated by their own friends on this occasion; but with regard to this increase of taxation, he must concur with many of them in opinion. He regarded the income-tax as vicious in principle, and as injurious to the capital employed in trade; and he believed that the country was not in such a state as that it could bear an additional taxation. The hon. Member for Buckinghamshire had answered the hon. Member for the West Riding by anticipation. It was with deep regret that he (Mr. Newdegate) saw the consummation of the free-trade policy in a decreased revenue and in the necessity for increased taxation. The anticipations of prosperity held out to the people as a consequence of free trade had been most dreadfully disappointed; and, though the Members of the ultra free-trade school might flatter themselves that they still retained a hold on popular opinion, the time would probably soon arrive when they would be undeceived. VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: I do not wish to enter into subjects which have been repeatedly discussed. But I should wish to say one word or two, especially on the speeches made by my hon. Friends on this side of the House. It is very natural for young Members, unused to Parliamentary tactics, and who do not feel entirely easy when they come to this House, to let fly speeches which they may have prepared beforehand, though the occasion they expected should not exactly occur. But certainly I did not expect that hon. Gentlemen so accustomed to Parliamentary debate as the hon. Members to whom I allude, should have fallen into that mistake. We are told that my noble Friend has been proposing vast armaments, that he has been making speeches full of warlike sentiments, and that he has been holding language calculated to excite jealousy, and even enmity, on the part of France. As to armaments there are none. If my noble Friend had said that he intended to propose an addition of 20,000 men to the Army, and of 10,000 men to the Navy, I could have understood the language of those who spoke as if they had come down to protest against such a proposition. But to the Army there is no increase. There is a different disposition, a different distribution, of the existing Army. There is no addition whatever to the regular Army. There is none to the Navy. There is a small increase to the marines and to the artillery; but there has been no augmentation such as the House might have imagined, from the sort of denunciations they have heard. I trust, when my hon. Friends reflect, and when they find how very small is the increase contemplated, the alarm they have expressed will subside. I should also wish to defend my noble Friend from the attack which has been made on him in regard to our relations with France. When it is the duty of a Minister of the Crown to propose an addition either to the military or to the naval force of the country, he must assign the grounds on which that addition is required. And the only grounds on which you measure the amount of your naval force must, on the one hand, be the extent of your commerce and the number of distant possessions you have to protect; and, on the other hand, the comparative force other countries possess-other countries with which it is possible you may, in the course of events, be placed in a state of hostility. So far from its affording any cause of offence to France that we should measure our Navy by such a standard, I am sure any one who follows the debates in the French Chambers, when their naval estimates come under discussion, must know that they follow the same course, adopting the natural and only measure in such cases, namely, the naval force which other nations may happen to have at the time. I therefore deny that anything which fell from my noble Friend the First Lord of the Treasury can bear the meaning attempted to be cast upon it. In fact, my noble Friend expressed sentiments in which I concur, and I am confident the House concurs. He expressed in the strongest terms his anxiety and desire that the relations between these two countries should not only be friendly, but should be as intimate as possible. I think there is one thing essential for preserving that friendly relation. It is that we should be on a footing of equality. There is no true or permanent friendship between nations unless they are on a footing of reciprocal independence. The passions by which nations may, from time to time, be animated, are attended with great danger. I consider, therefore, that any Government which proposes to place this country in a state of defence, not against war, but against unexpected surprise, is laying the surest foundation for the maintenance of that peace which we desire to see preserved. I am not one of those who indulge anticipations of war between this country and France. I believe, with the hon. Gentleman, that the principles of free trade will tend to preserve friendly relations between different nations. At the same time, our commercial relations with France are not exactly those which we should desire; but France is not an ex HOUSE OF LORDS, Monday, February 21, 1848. PUBLIC BILLS.-1a New Zealand Government. porting country of corn, and other circum- | polis, and it was not his intention at prestances do not afford us the same oppor- sent to introduce a Bill for that purpose. tunity of enlarging our commerce with House adjourned at a quarter to One France as with other nations. But I look o'clock. to the general tendency of men's minds. towards peace, and I differ from the hon. Member for the University of Oxford, who thinks that the long duration of peace renders war more probable; I think, on the contrary, that the duration of peace renders its continuance more likely, and will make countries more disposed to settle their differences otherwise than by war; so far, therefore, from thinking that the long duration of peace will hasten war, I am led to infer from it the probability of its continuing, rather than its being curtailed. If there be any two nations in the world who ought more than others to desire to be the most intimate terms, they are upon the English and French nations. Any men at the head of the Governments of those two nations who consider the real interests of both, must see that tho seinterests will be best promoted by relations of friendship and peace between them, and by the prevention of any misunderstandings that might lead to a rupture. I trust that we are fated to see a long continuance of the blessings of peace which we have so long enjoyed; and if anything more than another could render peace precarious, it would be the measure of leaving this country-a country rich and opulent as it is unprotected, or without adequate means of defence, so as to invite other nations to take advantage of our weakness. I consider, therefore, the measures proposed as not deserving the representations made of them, as extraordinary armaments, whereas armaments they are none. I think that this country, in time of peace, ought to have the means of providing against any unforeseen attack. Motion agreed to. SANITARY BILL. DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS, COURT OF The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE, in 99.66 POOR LAW (IRELAND). SIR B. HALL inquired of the noble EARL FITZWILLIAM rose to present Lord the Chief Commissioner of Woods a petition from the guardians of Clogheen and Forests, whether his Sanitary Bill Poor Law Union in Ireland, praying that would include the metropolis, and if not, the workhouses may be converted into whether it was his intention to introduce a houses of industry, in which employment Bill for that purpose? Also, what other may be provided for the destitute poor. It Bills upon that subject he proposed to in-appeared from a letter in his possession troduce, and what their provisions were? that the poor in a certain union in Ireland VISCOUNT MORPETH was understood were sustained on the amount of 7d. per to say, that he had already stated he did week per head, or 1d. per day; and he benot consider the Bill to apply to the metro-lieved that the same state of things existed It was a in other unions. Their Lordships had le- of the poor became unavoidable. gislated against crime in Ireland, and, severe visitation, and entailed upon the judging from the proceedings under the country a burden almost intolerable, but special commission, it would appear that one from which it was impossible to escape their legislation for the repression of crime in the case of a country in which the popuhad not been ineffective. But while they lation were dependent for subsistence upon punished crime in Ireland, let them not be the potato. The evils of famine being inattentive to the sufferings of those who superadded, to that condition of society, newere content to receive and subsist upon so cessarily plunged Ireland into a state of small an amount as he had mentioned. the deepest distress; and even during the Though those persons might be content last month the Irish poor-rates amounted with it, they could not possibly live on it; to 190,000l. Evils so deep-rooted and exand the allowance of 1d. per day per per- tensive as those which prevailed could not son seemed almost killing the population be remedied by any single measure, at the by slow degrees. He wished the Govern- same time that much good might accrue ment and the Parliament to consider whe- from emigration if prudently and carefully ther they could go on maintaining the peo- conducted; but all their Lordships must be ple on so small a pittance. He wished aware of the difficulties by which emigrathem to consider whether there were not tion was attended. By measures not long other modes of maintaining those who were in operation a certain number of children cast on the public resources, by means of were provided for, and, to some extent, a large public works; and whether the num- certain number of ablebodied men were bers of the people might not be diminished kept in employment on the public works; with advantage to themselves by the adop-with respect to the latter, it must be obtion of some well-regulated system of emi-vious that, in the present state of the nagration. As a remedy for the existing evil, the employment of the people by the landed proprietors of Ireland was pointed to; but he was afraid that if the whole burden were cast upon them the task would never be accomplished. The amount of money granted last year by way of loan to the landed proprietors was 1,500,000l.; but the sum sanctioned to be advanced by the proper authorities in Ireland did not exceed 1,000,000l. for 20,000,000 acres ; or, in other words, 1s. per acre over the whole extent of Ireland. If Ireland were to be improved by such means, the improvement would not proceed very rapidly. Instead of seeing the people starved upon 1d. per day, it was his desire to see them maintained on 1s. a day on works beneficial to the country; and he should also like to see established, not a capricious, but a well-regulated system of emigration. In the course of various debates it had been maintained that the income-tax ought to be extended to Ireland. Surely the statement set forth in the petition to which he had referred, if they made anything clear, rendered this most evident, that the poor-lished; but it must be obvious to every rates so severely pressed upon every class in that country that the levy of an incometax would be wholly out of the question. The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE was ready to admit that the poor-law, as it affected Ireland, did require amendment. Unfortunately, owing to the late famine, great expenditure in Ireland for the relief tional resources, public works could not be carried on upon the scale that they had heretofore been maintained. It appeared to him that the most effectual method by which relief could be given to the people of Ireland would be to enlarge the means, or rather to promote the practice of giving them employment derived from the individual proprietors of the soil. It would be much better that the working classes in Ireland, as in other countries, should be under individual rather than under public supervision. Applications had already been made for loans for the purpose of giving employment to the people; those applications amounted to 2,000,000l., and a considerable portion of them had been sanctioned. There was scarcely a county in which works of that description were not now proceeding. With respect to the manner in which Ireland had been divided for the purpose of being assessed to the poor-rates, he was perfectly ready to admit that it had been attended with more or less of inequality. Doubtless some of those evils might be corrected, and even a new division might be estab one that a new division would take up such a length of time that there would be no hope of bringing the poor-law into operation during the present year. The electoral divisions were in the first instance adopted as the best way of meeting the case; at least, the best way which then offered itself. He was far from saying |