sent when the observation that he referred | Elliot, hon. J. E. MR. O'CONNOR rose to explain. He spoke of military coercion-not of the ordinary course of military law; he referred to the drum-head courts-martial of the year 1798. The House divided on the question that the Bill be now read a second time:-Ayes 296; Noes 19: Majority 277. Evans, W. Gibson, rt. hon. T. M. Manners, Lord G. Martin, J. Martin, S. Matheson, A. Matheson, Col. Maxwell, hon. J. P. Moore, G. H. Morgan, O. Granger, T. C. Mostyn, hon. E. M. L. Grattan, H. Mowatt, F. Greene, T. Mulgrave, Earl of Gregson, S. Newport, Visct. Grey, rt. hon. Sir G. Norreys, Sir D. J. Grogan, E. Nugent, Sir P. Guinness, R. S. O'Brien, Sir L. Hall, Sir B. Ogle, S. C. H. Osborne, R. Anson, Visct. Clay, J. Hallyburton, Lord J. F. Ossulston, Lord Arundel and Surrey, Clay, Sir W. Hamilton, G. A. Paget, Lord A. Earl of Clements, hon. C. S. Hamilton, J. H. Paget, Lord C. Ashley, Lord Paget, Lord G. Baines, M. T. Clifford, H. M. Hastie, A. Baldwin, C. B. Baring, rt. hon. F. T. Baring, T. Cobbold, J. C. Hayter, W. G. Barnard, E. G. Bateson, T. Barrington, Visct. Bellew, R. M. Benett, J. Bennet, P. Charteris, hon. F. Chichester, Lord J. L. Cochrane, A. D. R. W. B. Headlam, T. E. Hildyard, T. B. T Hodgson, W. N. Hood, Sir A. Hope, Sir J. Hornby, J. Hotham, Lord Howard, hon. C. W. G. Howard, hon. E. G. G. Hutt, W. Ingestre, Visct. Inglis, Sir R. H. Duckworth, Sir J. T. B. Jones, Sir W. Palmer, R. Palmerston, Visct. Parker, J. Patten, J. W. Pearson, C. Peel, rt. hon. Sir R. Perfect, R. Peto, S. M. Pigott, F. Pilkington, J. Pinney, W. Plumptre, J. P. Plowden, W. H. C. Powlett, Lord W. Price, Sir R. Pusey, P. Raphael, A. Rawdon, Col. Rendlesham, Lord Rice, E. R. Rich, H. Robartes, T. J. A. Russell, hon. E. S. Russell, F. C. H. Deering, J. P. Jackson, W. Brackley, Visct. Douglas, Sir C. E. Jermyn, Earl Bramston, T. W. Drumlanrig, Viset. Jervis, J. Bremridge, R. Drummond, H. Jocelyn, Visct. Broadley, H. Broadwood, H. Duff, G. S. Jones, Capt. Brockman, E. D. Duff, J. Keogh, W. Duke, Sir J. Keppel, hon. G. T. Duncan, Visct. Campbell, hon. W. F. Simeon, J. Brown, H. Brooke, Lord Brotherton, J. Browne, R. D. Duncan, G. Duncuft, J. Ellice, rt. hon. E. Lennox, Lord H. G. Lewis, rt. hon. Sir T. F. Sadleir, J. Labourers, and others, in the Island of Grenada, for the Encouragement of Free Labour.-By Mr. Bright, from various places, for Inquiry into the Case of the Rajah of Sattara.-By Mr. F. O'Connor, from several places, against the Crime and Outrage Bill, and for Measures of Amelioration (Ireland).-By Colonel Sibthorp, from Lincoln, for Regulating the Sale of Poisons.-By Mr. G. Thompson, from James Berington, formerly Veterinary Surgeon in the Army, for Inquiry respecting Soldiers' Knapsacks.-By Mr. Henley, from Charlbury, and Witney, for the Adoption of a Treaty of Arbitration between the British Government and the other Governments of the world respectively, for putting a final period to the barbarous and unchristion practice of War.-By Mr. Wakley, from Lucy Williams, Wife of Charles Williams, Licensed Victualler, for Redress. COPYHOLD TENURES. MR. AGLIONBY asked whether it were the intention of the Government to introduce any measure for the compulsory enfranchisement of copyhold and customary tenures? SIR GEORGE GREY had received from the Copyhold Commissioners their report, which had been presented to Parliament, and it would be in hand in a day or two. In that report would be found modified recommendations, not going the full length of what the hon. Member would desire to see accomplished, but carrying out the object to a certain extent; and a Bill was in preparation for carrying the objects into effect. O'Connell, J. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Friday, December 10, 1847. MINUTES.] PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Mr. Wakley, from Gloucester, for Inquiry respecting the Gloucester County Election (Western Division).-By Mr. Osborne, from Inhabitants of Hammersmith and its vicinity, for Returning two Members to Represent in Parliament the Parishes of Hammersmith, Kensington, Chelsea, Fulham, and Chiswick.-By several Hon. Members, from a great number of places, for and against the Removal of Jewish Disabilities. By Sir P. Egerton, from Chester, and Mr. John Tollemache, from Suffolk, for Inquiry into the Conduct of the Roman Catholic Clergy (Ireland).-From Artisans, PRIVATE BILLS. MR. AGLIONBY also asked the followtion of the Government to propose any ing question: Whether it were the intenmeasure for carrying into effect the recommendation of the Select Committee on Private Bills of last Session, and for enabling towns, or parishes, or districts, to adopt the provisions of the General Consolidation Acts, without coming to Parliament by Bill for that purpose? MR. LABOUCHERE answered, that there remained two Consolidation Bills recommended by the Committee, and not yet introduced-one relating to bridges, and the other to canals. A Bill relating to the former was preparing; with regard to the latter, he had some doubt of the expediency of introducing a Consolidation Bill; and he believed that very few Canal Bills were likely to come before the House at present. There were other recommendations made by the Committee, which were of very great importance; but the report had only lately been in his possession; the Government would be prepared to carry into effect such as, upon consideration, might appear to them desirable. DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH ROME. SIR R. H. INGLIS, seeing the noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in his place, wished to ask a question, of which he had given notice. One of the noble Lord's Colleagues in the Cabinet, holding the office of Lord Privy Seal, and having the custody of the privy seal, had been for some time in Rome, and he (Sir R. Inglis) heard from public report (and now rose for the purpose of giving the noble Lord an opportunity of contradicting that report if it were not true) that a convention had been signed between the noble Lord, on the part of Her Majesty, and some authorities of the See of Rome, in reference to diplomatic relations. He wished to know whether the Colleague of the noble Lord were in Rome with any authority from Her Majesty's confidential advisers, and whether, being so at Rome, any convention had been signed by him on the part of Her Majesty with any authority of the See of Rome? VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: It is well known that for some weeks past, Lord Minto, who holds the office of Privy Seal, has been at Rome. Lord Minto is not at Rome in any official capacity; he has no power and no instructions to negotiate any convention whatever with the Court of Rome, to which Court he is not in any way accredited; and therefore my hon. Friend will see that the statement to which he alludes is entirely destitute of foundaany tion whatever. I need not say that, so long as doubts can be entertained by any person as to the legality of diplomatic intercourse with the Court of Rome, Her Majesty's Government have too much respect for the law to do anything which could by possibility be considered as an intention of violating it. The doubt arises chiefly upon the construction of the word communion," ," the law being, that the Crown is not to hold any communion with the Court of Rome. A doubt exists whether the word "communion" should be strictly intrepreted as applicable to religious communion, or whether it should be applied to diplomatic intercourse. I give no opinion; and until Parliament can set tle that doubt, I can assure my hon. Friend and the House that no step will be taken by Her Majesty which can by possibility be considered as contravening the law. 66 GREEK LOANS. MR. B. COCHRANE asked whether the Greek Government had paid the arrears of loan due to Her Majesty's Government; and whether, if they had not paid up those arrears, it was the intention of Government to insist on the payment of the interest of the loan? VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: The halfyear's instalment payable upon the loan in April, which was advanced by Her Majesty's Government, has been repaid. Since that period, another instalment being due in September, and no provision being made, a demand was made by the Government of this country on the Government of Greece for payment of the instalment; but as yet the payment has not been made. MR. B. COCHRANE said, that the question referred to the whole amount of arrears still due to the English Government. VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: The whole amount of arrears is a very considerable sum, amounting to something like 190,000%. No immediate demand has been made for the payment of that amount. Although we think the Greek Government are perfectly able to pay the instalments as they become due, yet I cannot pretend to say that they can be supposed capable of paying up at once so large a sum as that. The inclination of the Government is, that some arrangement should be made for the gradual and progressive liquidation of the debt. RAILWAYS IN INDIA. VISCOUNT JOCELYN wished to ask the Secretary to the Board of Control what arrangements had been made by the East India Company with those companies that proposed to embark capital in railway undertakings in India? MR. G. C. LEWIS would state what had been done with respect to railways in the three presidencies of India. In Calcutta it was designed to construct a railway from the city of Calcutta to Delhi; and an arrangement had been made by the East India Company with a company called the East Indian Railway Company upon these terms-viz., that two sections should be executed at a cost of 3,000,000l. sterling, the Government finding the land and guaranteeing interest on that amount for twenty-five years, at 5 per cent.; the Government to have the option of purchasing the railway at the end of twenty-five or fifty years. A similar arrangement had been resolved upon with regard to the Great Indian Peninsular Railway Company, for a railway from Bombay to a The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, it was a very dangerous thing to say what was the intention of the Government with respect to taxation. When on a former occasion a number of reduc town about thirty-five miles north-east of that place; the guarantee extended to 500,000l. No arrangement had been made with respect to the Madras Presidency. SIR R. PEEL inquired whether any legislative proceedings would be necessary to give effect to these arrangements, or whether the East India Company considered that they had power to carry them out without Bill? any MR. G. C. LEWIS apprehended that the Company considered that they had that power. tions in taxation had been proposed, he thought that no change could then be made. This year, most unquestionably, it would be necessary to renew the incometax. But he must say it was exceedingly inconvenient at the present moment to state what were the views or intentions of the Government with respect to the taxation of the country. THE RIGHT REV. DR. RYAN. MR. BRIGHT, who had given notice of his intention to put a question with MR. MONSELL: Although, Sir, I am reference to the steps that had been taken for the promotion of railways in what occurred in a former debate, yet I aware that it is not proper to allude to India, particularly from Bombay to those hope I may be permitted to refer to a districts in which cotton is chiefly grown, charge which was made in the course of remarked that Lancashire, in this one yesterday evening's discussion against the year, had paid as much, owing to the Roman Catholic Bishop of Limerick, Dr. failure of the crop in America, as would have made the line which the Great for Bridport. I will, with the permission Ryan, by the hon. Gentleman the Member Indian Peninsular Company wished to of the House, read the charge, which it make. Was the hon. Gentleman aware will be seen brings that right rev. Prelate that a formal application was made to the under the description of an accessary beGovernment, at least a year ago, and that fore the fact, and an instigator to the comthe subject was brought under their notice, mission of a crime of no less heinous a though not altogether formally, three character than that of murder. Yes, the years since? The length of time required crime of which the hon. Member accused to make the line would be very consider that right rev. Prelate was the crime of able; every day's delay was important, be- murder. I am going to speak not at all cause the season when work could be done at random of that right rev. Prelate, but I commenced in September, and unless an am going to state what I know of him of arrangement were made speedily, another season might be lost. The terms and con- believe can my own personal knowledge, and what I be testified of him by all ditions were understood to be of that na-classes and creeds in the country to which ture that if they should be persisted in, it he belongs. He has distinguished himself would be totally impossible to raise money by the most active and persevering endeain the English market. The subject was vours to support the laws. He has subof the first importance to Lancashire. jected himself to much obloquy on account of the peaceful and tranquil course which he always thought it his duty to pursue. The charge which has been brought against him is founded on some words which he used in a charge which he delivered at a confirmation held in his own diocese. Now, those words referred to certain misdeeds which he ascribed to persons belonging to the upper classes. I have not got the charge here, and am therefore not able to refer to the particular terms of it; but fortunately Lord Farnham in another place quoted some words from the address, which warranted his Lordship to speak in terms of the highest possible approbation of the right rev. Prelate, and of the manifest spirit in which those words were used. MR. G. C. LEWIS would merely remark, that the terms offered by the East India Company must be considered as liberal, inasmuch as they found the land for both railway companies, and guaranteed 5 per cent. He was not aware of any obstacle having been offered to these projects by the East India Company. TAXATION. MR. EWART asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it would be in the power of the Government to take any general view of the whole system of taxation of this country, for the object of simplifying and reforming it, in the present Session of Parliament? The passage quoted by Lord Farnham was as follows: "If the people of this country had not fallen back to a state of wickedness and depravity, and forgotten, in their vices, their Christian obligations, how is it possible that, in a land like Ireland, blessed with fertility, glorious in the produce of nature, and ample in its natural resources, the poorer classes should be steeped in such wretchedness and misery? The land is in a state of wildness, while the occupiers and labourers indulge in wickedness and depravity." and that, in reference to the counties of It was most unjust to take a separate pas- in a manner worthy of the sacred station he holds. I have heard a great deal said The EARL of LINCOLN: I would not about the conduct of the Catholic clergy for a single moment trouble the House, or of Ireland in the course of these debates, add a word to what has been said by the and expressions have been quoted as havhon. Member for the county of Limerick ing fallen from the lips of some Catholic (Mr. Monsell), whose testimony, as living clergymen. Now, I condemn those expresin the immediate neighbourhood of Dr. sions as strongly as any man. I hold such Ryan, must be far more powerful and in-language to be most dangerous and crimifluential on the House than anything I can advance, if the hon. Gentleman had not made a direct appeal to me. I have no hesitation in responding to that appeal. I have not the honour of Dr. Ryan's personal acquaintance; I have never seen him in my life; but, during my short acquaintance with Ireland, it did so happen that his character was brought under my notice; VOL. XCV. Series} Third nal, coming from the lips of any man, but dangerous and criminal in the highest degree when used by men holding a sacred office. Such misconduct on the part of the Roman Catholic clergy has been strongly and justly reprobated by the newspapers. I do not regret it; but what I do regret is, that the public should be induced, by reason of such language and conduct, to lose 2 H |