THE DUKE OF SOMERSET suggested that the danger from the rock on which the Lively stranded might be obviated by blowing up the rock with dynamite, and that its destruction would be a merciful purpose, to which a little dynamite could be applied. Motion agreed to. Correspondence ordered to be laid before the House. LAW AND JUSTICE (ENGLAND AND SESSIONS.-QUESTION. THE EARL OF POWIS called attention to the inconvenience which arises from certain Assizes having been fixed by the judges for the days on which the quarter sessions are by statute required to be held; and asked whether it will be necessary to hold sessions for the trial of prisoners in the same week as that in which assize gaol delivery has taken place? in a position of considerable difficulty; | being produced. Their Lordships were because, when one of Her Majesty's probably aware that the Board of Adships was lost, a court martial to inquire miralty were not responsible_for_the into the circumstances of the loss was lighting of the Coasts. The Board of held, and one would be held in this case. Trade was the authority dealing with The Report would come before the such matters, acting under the advice of Board of Admiralty; and accordingly it the Commissioners of Northern Lights was quite impossible for him to refer in and the Elder Brethren of the Trinity any way in that House to the circum- House. stances of the loss of the Lively, or to the responsibility of the officer in command of it. Their Lordships would, therefore, excuse him if he did not enter into any of these questions. He was obliged to the noble Marquess (the Marquess of Lothian) for the information he had communicated. If he were to answer the first Question of the noble Duke strictly, he would say that no representation of any kind had been made to the Admiralty with regard to the Hen and Chickens Rock. In 1869, however, the officer surveying those parts of the Coast suggested that a beacon or buoy should be placed over the sunken rock, and the Commissioners of Northern Lights recommended that this should be done; but the Elder Brethren of the Trinity House, who had a consultative voice in these matters, were of opinion that a very good clearing mark was given in the Admiralty directions, and they did not see that the proposal was necessary. No further representations had been made since 1869. With respect to the Question whether similar representations had been at any time made with reference to the North Shoal, off the West Coast of the Orkneys, he had to say that no representation whatever had been made to the Admiralty with regard to it. The Hydrographer to the Navy who was the authority whom the Board of Admiralty consulted in these matters, reported to the Board that the shoal was 7 feet under water; and, in his opinion, no buoy would stand in such an exposed position; and the danger, moreover, was out of the general track of navigation. In 1876 the Commissioners of Supply for Orkney made a representation to the Board of Trade that there were 44 rocks and shoals around the Islands which were not marked by either buoys or beacons. The Memorial was referred to the Commissioners of Northern Lights, who advised that a few lights were required; but the North Shoal was not among those so recommended. There was no objection to the Correspondence The Earl of Northbrook LORD COLERIDGE said, he might explain that the inconveniences to which the noble Earl referred would only occur in three counties-namely, Montgomeryshire, Buckinghamshire, and Berkshire. The fact that certain Assizes had been fixed for Quarter Session day in those counties was due to pure inadvertence; and he need not say that the Judges would be the last to inflict any needless inconvenience on country gentlemen. In ordinary years, moreover, it would not have occurred. The learned Judges who were to attend the Assizes in the counties in question had expressed their willingness to try all the prisoners committed for trial to the Quarter Sessions, or, if it would be more convenient to the magistrates, to postpone the commission day for one day. The Judges would thus either perform the duties of the magistrates, or allow those gentlemen to do their own duties without interference. He would take care that for the future the Judges should be reminded, when the Circuits were selected, that the days for the commencement of the Assizes must be so fixed as not to conflict with the Quarter Sessions. In answer to the second part of the noble Earl's Notice, he had to say that the days for the holding of Quarter Sessions were fixed by Act of Parliament. He feared, therefore, that the Court of Quarter Sessions for Montgomeryshire, to which his noble Friend specially referred, must meet as usual on the chance of there being some business, such as a presentment, to transact. The difficulty which the noble Earl wished to see obviated would only occur in the two or three counties where the Judges began their Circuits. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (UNREFORMED) BILL-INQUIRY FEES. QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS. LORD HENNIKER, in rising to ask Her Majesty's Government, Whether they have considered the question of the large fees to be paid to the Treasury by the boroughs mentioned in the First Schedule of the Municipal Corporations (Unreformed) Bill, with the view of relieving these corporations of a heavy charge? said, he hoped the Government would be able to give him a reply to a Question he asked of the noble Earl who had charge of the Municipal Corporations (Unreformed) Bill, when he presented a Petition, a few days ago, from the borough of Aldeburgh. Aldeburgh was one of those boroughs which were included in the First Schedule of the Bill, as boroughs which should be retained. It would be a great strain on their resources to make them pay a large sum for Treasury fees. This would not be so hard were the boroughs only now to be incorporated. As it was, they were only to be reformed; and all they had to spare in the way of funds would be required for placing the new machinery in working order. This borough, like the other boroughs in the same category, merely asked for an act of justice that an Act of Parliament might be passed to place them under the Municipal Corporations Consolidation Act, 1882, without the necessity of applying for a new Charter. Perhaps the noble Lord would state whether Her Majesty's Government could deal specially with such cases? LORD CARLINGFORD (LORD PRESIDENT of the COUNCIL) said, that the new Charters would be prepared by the Privy Council. He had been in communication with the Treasury on the subject; and it had been decided that the towns to which the Question of the noble Lord referred should be exempted from the expense of the fees which his noble Friend feared they would have to incur. CONTAGIOUS DISEASES (ANIMALS) ACT -ORDERS OF THE PRIVY COUNCIL. QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS. LORD HENNIKER, in rising to call the attention of the House to the Orders of the Privy Council under the Contagious Diseases (Animals) Act; and to ask, Whether these Orders can be published from time to time in a consolidated form? said, he had taken it upon himself to place this, Notice on the Paper, as he had had some little experience as Chairman of the Executive Committee under this Act in the county in which he lived for several years past; and he had had special means of knowing how the Act worked, as they had had more than one severe outbreak of disease during the last few years. The other day the noble Duke (the Duke of Richmond and Gordon) called attention to the importation of disease. He did not intend to enter into that question; but he mentioned it, as he thought, while fresh regulations were desired, that they should not neglect to use the powers they already had with the greatest effect possible. Two or three years ago he noticed that it was not so difficult as it had been this last year to make all concerned understand what the law was; but there were now such a mass of Orders put forth that it was difficult for anyone who carefully followed the action of the Privy Council to keep pace with these constant changes; and, for those who were determined not to understand, it was very easy to make excuses and to puzzle others. The great difficulty they had had was to make dealers in cattle conform to the regulations; and in the last two outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease they had kept the disease alive when the district would have been free long before it was so. These dealers, during the last outbreak, actually got up a correspondence in the newspapers, declared the regulations were impossible to understand, and, of course, placed great difficulties in the way of the local authority. Of course, this was overcome; and, after a time, every regulation was in good working order. Hardly, however, was this the case, when down came a fresh Order, and undid all the good effect of what had been done. He would only quote two instances to show what he meant. An Order was passed some time ago -still, he was glad to say, in forcewhich allowed local authorities to close their district against other authorities. This was a most useful Order while all markets were closed, and dealt effectually with the dealers. This last year they had put this Order in full force in Suffolk, and the county had been rapidly cleared of disease-so much so that, if these restrictions could have been kept in force about a fortnight longer than they were, it was the opinion of the most practical men in the district that the disease would have been stamped out. However, the markets were opened by the Privy Council, and it was of no further uso to continue the restrictions of the local authority. The disease broke out afresh, of course, and although, happily, not to a large extent, was still in the district. It might be said that the Order in Council now in force gave local authorities power to deal with markets. So it did; but the Order was not in existence at the time he had mentioned; and he did not think it would be so effectual, where there were several local authorities in one county, as the action of the Privy Council. Be that as it might, these constant changes did not do good, and tended to puzzle all concerned, and to defeat the action of the local authorities. He would give another case. An Order was put forth a short time ago to allow local authorities to grant licences for markets in their districts where disease existed within their district. Hardly had this been placed in working order when it was cancelled by a fresh one, altering the terms of the power of the local authority. Probably the Privy Council were right in their last Orders; but why should such constant changes be made? It handicapped the local authorities, on whose action, in carrying out the Orders strictly, so much depended, and really gave an excuse to those who wished to evade the law. Of course, he was quite aware that it was desirable Lord Henniker that the Government should have powers, and so use them as to deal with special emergencies; but in order to support the local authorities throughout the country, and, in fact, to carry out the law properly, it was most important that the Orders should be changed as seldom as possible, and that some Code of Regulations should be published-say twice a year-of all the Orders in force, so that no one might have a shadow of a foundation for saying he could not understand the regulations in force. LORD CARLINGFORD (LORD PRESIDENT of the COUNCIL) said, he knew very few Members of that House better entitied from experience to give an opinion on this subject than the noble Lord. He quite agreed with the substance and the object of the remarks they had just heard. But he was not prepared to admit that the multiplicity of Orders which the noble Lord had described could have been avoided, under the circumstances of this country. It had been caused by the variety of the circumstances with which they had to deal, and partly by the increase of experience as time went on. But he was bound to say that he sympathized with the noble Lord in his struggles with the Orders as they now stood; and he was able to tell him that the Privy Council felt that the time had come when an effort ought to be made to simplify and consolidate them. was glad to say that from the much more self-acting character of the Orders as they now stood, in consequence of some recent changes, the Privy Council hoped that the Orders in future would be more easily carried out. They were of opinion that the time had come when the process desired by the noble Lord should take place, and they were now at work upon a consolidation of the Orders. That was a work which had to be done with great care and accuracy, and it would take a little time; but it was going on as fast as possible. The Orders would be consolidated into two sets, one containing the regulations with regard to home animals, and the other the regulations relating to foreign animals. He hoped when those consolidated Orders appeared they would fully meet the views of the noble Lord. He THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN wished to suggest whether it would not be possible at some of the ports that some thing in the nature of a quarantine | across streets, not only by Her Majesty's should be established. He was per- Post Office, but also by persons not emfectly certain that the future of the powered to do so, either by Act of Paragricultural interest in this country de- liament or by any licence from the public pended very much upon the safeguards bodies in whom is vested the soil of taken with respect to the foreign cattle the street across which such wires are which came here. It was greatly to be stretched; whether there exist any means deprecated that foreign cattle should be of ascertaining the number of overhead allowed to enter wholesale. The sub- wires in the Metropolis which belong to ject was beset with so many difficulties private owners or companies which have that his suggestion might prove un- ceased to use them, or for other reasons workable, but he gave it for what it have ceased to keep them in repair; was worth; and hoped the authorities and, whether it may not be the case that would remember how greatly the pros- there is an increasing number of overperity of British agriculture depended head wires, of which the owners cannot on the exclusion of diseased cattle. be identified, which are practically abandoned, and which are daily falling more and more out of repair, and becoming more dangerous to the public? House adjourned at a quarter before a quarter past Ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Thursday, 21st June, 1883. MR. FAWCETT: I have carefully considered the hon. Member's Question, and I have come to the conclusion that it would be beyond the province of the Post Office to inquire into the circumstances under which wires not belonging to it have been erected, or to take any steps to ascertain the condition of such wires, except in so far as they may interfere with the due maintenance of the MINUTES.]-PUBLIC BILLS-First Reading- * Second Reading Railway Passenger Duty, &c. [219]; Turnpike Acts Continuance [231]; Yorkshire Register Acts Amendment * [221]. Committee Parliamentary Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) [7] [Seventh Night] -R.P. Committee- Report Labourers (Ireland) [29- QUESTIONS. 1680 POST OFFICE-OVERHEAD TELEGRAPH VOL. CCLXXX. [THIRD SERIES.] CONTAGIOUS DISEASES (ANIMALS) ACT MR. R. H. PAGET asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, If he will be good enough to state to the House whether there is any sufficient reason why the very numerous Orders of Council, relating to the Contagious Diseases (Animals) Act, which have been issued since the Animals Order of 15th December 1879, should not now be codified and re-issued as one New Order of Council? MR. DODSON, in reply, said, that the codification of the Orders in Council was proceeding as rapidly as possible. It would, however, necessarily take some time, because it would have to be done with great care; and it might be found more convenient to have two Orders, one relating to home and the other to foreign animals. INDIA OFFICE-PERMANENT UNDER THE PARKS (METROPOLIS)—THE REGENT'S PARK. When Mr. Godley, the future perma- my Predecessors in title and occupanent Under Secretary of State for India, | tion. entered the Civil Service, and what appointments he has since held; and, if he would state the names of those who, since the creation of that office in 1858, have been appointed to it, and the missioner of Works, Whether any arlength of service and the position occurangement has been arrived at with pied by them at the date of their ap-respect to the inclosure in Regent's pointment? COLONEL NOLAN also asked the Under Secretary of State for India, If his official position is next to that of the Secretary of State for India; and, if it is superior to that of all other Indian Secretaries; and, if his present office has at any time been occupied by a gentleman who, at the date of his appointment, had not attained the age now reached by Mr. Godley? MR. D. GRANT asked the First Com the same to the House? Park; and, if so, whether he will state MR. SHAW LEFEVRE: I am sorry I am not able to answer the hon. Member's Question at present. The arrangements have not been finally completed; but I hope they will be before long, and I shall then make a statement to the House. MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: Does make any arrangement for compensating the right hon. Gentleman propose to the owners of the property which will be depreciated if this inclosure is thrown open? MR. J. K. CROSS: In reply to the noble Lord, I have to say that Mr. Godley was Private Secretary to the First Lord of the Treasury from 1872 to 1874, and again from 1880 till July 1882, when he was appointed a Commissioner of Inland Revenue. On the creation of the Indian Office in 1858, Sir George Clerk, one of the Secretaries WESTERN ISLANDS OF THE PACIFIC to the Board of Control, who had entered the Bengal Civil Service in 1817, was appointed Permanent Under Secretary of State. He resigned in 1860, and was succeeded by Mr. Merivale, who, without any previous experience in the Civil Service, had been appointed in 1847 Permanent Under Secretary of State for the Colonies. Upon his death, in 1874, he was succeeded by Sir Louis Malet, who entered the Audit Office in 1839, was transferred to the Board of Trade in 1847, where he continued to serve till 1872, when he was appointed a Member of the Council of India. My hon. and gallant Friend asks me two very delicate Questions. He asks me about my own official position, and the relative ages of other gentlemen. For myself, I can only say that though my official position is, in common with that of the Permanent Under Secretary, next to the Secretary of State, it is by no means superior to that of all other Indian Secretaries. My Colleague, the Permanent Under Secretary, is absolved from the duty of answering Questions in the House of Commons. I hope my hon. and gallant Friend will not think me discourteous if I decline to enter into the delicate question of the ages of Lord George Hamilton MR. SHAW LEFEVRE: No; certainly not. AUSTRALIAN COLONIES - ANNEXATION OF NEW GUINEA BY QUEENSLAND. SIR MICHAEL HICKS - BEACH asked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, When the Despatch from the Governor of Queensland with respect to the annexation of New Guinea will be in the hands of Members; whether he can now inform the House of the decision of Her Majesty's Government on the subject; and, whether the recent Correspondence with other Australasian Colonies, with respect to the annexation of certain other islands in the Pacific, will be presented to Parliament? MR. EVELYN ASHLEY: The despatch from the Governor of Queensland will be given to the House next week, together with other Papers on the subject. The Correspondence with the other Australasian Colonies as to certain Islands in the Pacific will also shortly be given to Parliament. As to the main portion of the right hon. Gentleman's Question, I regret that I cannot say anything more definite than I said last week. The question is a large one, and involves many considerations and inquiries; but I hope that shortly the |