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theologians must not hold one lan- What point do you propose to guage at one time, and a totally open

for our discussion this different one at another. They evening. have satisfactorily shewn, while Prot. Having thus mastered the combating the infidels and scep- main question in the whole contics, that the right use of our troversy, we must now take up in reason, without submitting it to succession, the various points of . the arbitrary dictation of any difference between the Romish and human being, or human authority, Protestant churches. And that conducts us inevitably to the con- which I shall offer for this day's clusion, that the book called the discussion, is our main accusation Bible is a Divine Revelation; or and objection against the Romish a collection of writings inspired by church, namely, that she is an the Holy Spirit. Consequently, Idolatrous Church; or a community having thus argued, and having which having once been a true successfully established this point, church of Christ, has apostatized, they are not now at liberty to turn and fallen into the practice of worround and adopt the contrary shipping and serving other gods. view; namely, that it is only by the This is the view presented of her by authority of the church that we the apostle John, in the book of can learn the Divine character of Revelation, chap. xvii. xviii, and the books of Scripture.

though it may not be expedient to Inq. Certainly, this is clear turn our argument into a discussion enough. And it follows also of as to the interpretation of unfulfilled inevitable necessity, that if you prophecy, there can be no improadhere to this assertion,—that it is priety in my gravely and calmly only by the testimony of the

bringing the

accusation church that you can know the against the Romish church, upon Scriptures to be inspired,—then, the evidence of facts, which is with an infidel, who takes your here stated, in figurative language, church to be nothing else than a by the inspired apostle. I charge, system of fraud and priestcraft, therefore, the church of Rome with you have not even a word to say. the practice of open, flagrant, and You cannot even begin an argu- unblushing IDOLATRY. ment; for if you admit the exter- Rom. Gently, my good Sir! I nal evidences of the authenticity must address you in Dr. Wiseman's and inspiration of the Scriptures rebuke, ' Idolators ! know ye, my to be insufficient, the question be. brethren, the import of this name? tween you and the sceptic is

That it is the most frightful charge wholly at an end. But let us en- that can be laid to the score of

any deavour, on this occasion, to ad- Christian ? Then, gracious God! vance another step.

As far as I what must it be, when flung as an am concerned, I feel no doubt accusation

upon those who have whatever that the divine inspira- been baptized in the name of tion of Scripture is abundantly Christ, who have tasted the sacred established. In the Bible, there- gift of his body, and received the fore, I admit that we

Holy Ghost ?'* standard; and I have not yet Prot. I am quite aware that heard that the Romish church can the charge I make is a most offer me any further or better rule. serious one, and one which ought Let us proceed, then, on this basis, not to be lightly hazarded. But that the Bible is to be judge and when Dr. Wiseman affects to arbiter of this controversy.

And recoil back with surprize and now let me ask, what is to be the subject of this day's conversation ? * Wiseman's Thirteenth Lecture, p. 93.

have a

indignation at so frightful' an tion of the Virgin Mary, and of accusation, he should remember sundry dead men and women, the real nature of the separation called saints,' does, in effect, rob which exists between the church of Christ of his peculiar glory;'affront Rome and the Protestant churches. the God and Father of our Lord, Those who, in the sixteenth cen- who hath 66

given him for a covetury, at the hazard of their lives nant of the people, for a light of and all they held dear, threw off the gentiles," and set at nought the their allegiance to Rome, never Holy Ghost, whose office it is to dreamt of treating the differences glorify Christ, and to shed abroad which existed, as matters of light his love in our hearts. In short, and trifling moment. If they had that another worship, distinct from not believed the grounds of their and opposed to, the worship of the protest to be both solid and of the blessed Trinity, is set up, as enmost vital nature, they would not tirely distinct from, and opposed to, have caused a separation, which if the worship of the only true God, as made without sufficient ground, was the worship of the heroes and must have been a schism. They demigods of ancient Greece and jeoparded every thing that life Rome. But let us now bear what could offer. Hundreds, even in our friend here has to offer in England, and thousands in France defence of this system. and Germany, paid the forfeit of Rom. I shall, without apology, their decision with their lives; and read to you some passages from is it now to be made matter of Dr. Wiseman on this subject; surprize that the charges brought feeling assured that that lucid wriby them and by us against Rome, ter has, in his well-considered arand their belief in the truth of which gument, done more justice to the they sealed with their blood- cause of the church, than I should should be serious and weighty ! be likely to do, by any extempore If the grounds of separation efforts of my own. The Doctor adduced were not of a deep and says, fearful nature, would not the " What is the Catholic belief Romanists themselves be justified on the subject of giving worship in asking, "Wherefore, for such or veneration to the saints light and trifling causes, have ye their emblems? You will not broken the unity of the church?” open a single Catholic work, from I admit, then, that the charge we the folio decrees of Councils, down bring against your church is a most to the smallest catechism placed in fearful one. I admit that we · the hands of the youngest children, charge you with depriving God of in which you will not find it exhis honour, and transferring that pressly taught; -that it is sinful to worship and adoration which should pay the same homage or worship be paid to him alone, to divers of to the saints, or to the greatest of his creatures, who were and are the saints, or the highest of the nothing but poor human beings angels in heaven, which we pay to like ourselves.


honour and Ing. But how shall we conduct worship are reserved exclusively this inquiry? Shall we hear the to him; that from him alone can defence of the Church of Rome any blessing possibly come; that first, and then proceed with your he is the sole fountain of salvation, reply?

and grace, and all spiritual, or Prot. If you please. I will, even earthly gifts,- and that no then, only now lodge my formal one created being can have any accusation, that the Church of

power, energy, or influence of its Rome, by her worship and adora- own, in carrying into effect our




wishes or desires. No one surely particle of the honour which bewill say, that there is no distinc- longs to him, we believe him to be tion between one species of homage served in a much nobler way than and reverence, and another ; no any other. For we thereby raise

will assert, that when we ourselves in imagination to heaven ; honour the King or his representa- we see the Saints prostrate before tives, or our parents, or others in him in our behalf, offering their lawful authority over us, we are golden crowns and palms before hereby derogating from the su- his footstool, pouring out before preme honour due to God. Would him the odours of their golden not any one smile, if he did not vials, which are the prayers of give way to a harsher feeling, were their brethren on earth, and interhe taxed with defrauding God of ceding through the death and the his true honour, because he paid passion of his Son. And surely, reverence or esteem to others, or if this be so, we are paying to God sought their intercession or assist- the highest homage, which his ance ? It is wasting time to apostle describes as paid in heaprove that there may be honour ven; for we give occasion, by every and worship,- for, as I will shew prayer, for this prostration of his you presently, this word is am- Saints, and this outpouring of the biguous,-that there


be fragrance of their supplications. reverence or esteem demonstrated, Such being the Catholic belief reso subservient to God, as in no way garding the saints, we must be furto interfere with what is due to him. ther convinced that it is, and can

“What I have cursorily stated, be, no way displeasing to God, is precisely the Catholic belief re- that we should shew a respect and garding. the saints: that they have honour to their remains on earth, no power of themselves, and that or to those images and representathey are not to be honoured and tions which recal them to our rerespected as though they possessed membrance. Nay, we believe it; but at the same time that they more than this : for we believe that are intercessors for us with God, God is pleased with this respect praying for us to him, and that it we shew them, inasmuch as it is is right to address ourselves to all ultimately directed to honour them, and obtain the co-operation him in them. We doubt not, that of this, their powerful intercession, he may be pleased to make use of in our behalf. The very distinc- such outward and visible instrution here made excludes the odious ments, to excite the faith of his charge to which I have alluded people, and to bring them to a diswith considerable pain. For the position of fervour, which may provery idea that you

duce salutary effects."* being to pray to God, is surely Prot. May I ask, whether the making an abyss, a gulf, between Doctor supports his view by any him and God; it is making him a passages from the word of God? suppliant, a dependent on the will Rom. Yes, he adduces several of the Almighty: and surely these texts. I will give you the whole terms and these ideas are in exact passage. contradiction to all we can possibly

“ In the book of Daniel, for conceive of the attributes and qua- instance, we read of angels sent to lities of God.

instruct him, and we have mention “ But I go further still. Instead made of the princes, meaning the of taking any thing from God, it is angels of different kingdoms. In adding immensely to his glory: by the book of Tobias, which, whatthus calling on the Saints to pray * Wiseman's 13th Lecture, p. 93– for us, instead of robbing him of a 95,

call on any

ever any one present may think of offend any...of Christ's little ones, its canonicity, as I said on a former or make them fall, because their occasion of the book of Macca- angels always see the face of their bees, must be considered at least Father, who is in heaven. Why, as a strong testimonial of the belief this to all appearance goes as of the Jews,we find these words much as the Catholic belief, and expressly put into the mouth of an more, to affect the superintendence angel :-"When thou didst pray and guidance, and general proviwith tears, and didst bury the

dence of God. That we are to dead, and didst leave thy dinner take care to avoid sin, because it and hide the dead by day in thy offends the angels– that we are to house, and bury them by night, I avoid being the cause of these offered thy prayers to the Lord.” little ones' fall, because their angels In the book of Maccabees we have see the face of God! What does the same doctrine repeated. It is this mean, but that they have an there said, that Onias, who had influence with God, and will use it been High Priest, appeared to to bring down judgment on the Judas Maccabeus, “ holding up

offender? For, in fact, wherefore his arms, and praying for the peo is the connexion between the angels ple of the Jews. After this, there and men alluded to, except to appeared also another man, admi- show that the former, enjoying the rable for age and glory, and envi- divine presence, have a powerful roned with great beauty and ma- advantage over us, which ihey will jesty. Then Onias said, “ This is use to bring signal judgment down a lover of his brethren, and of the on the heads of the offenders ? people of Israel: this is he that And what is that but establishing prayeth much for the people, and a communion and connexion befor all the holy city, Jeremias the tween them and their little charge prophet of God.” Such, then, was in the way of intercession ? the belief of the Jews, and such it “But in the Apocalypse, we have is at the present day.

still stronger authority; for we “ But is there any thing in the there read of our prayers being as New Testament to contradict it, perfumes in the hands of angels and give reason to suspect for a and saints. One blessed spirit moment, that our blessed Saviour stood before a mystical altar in rejected and reprobated this con- heaven, “ having a golden censer, viction? Does he not, on the con- and there was given to him much trary, speak of it as a thing well incense, that he should offer the understood, and in terms which, so prayers of all saints upon the golfar from reproving, must have gone den altar, which is before the far to confirm his hearers in this throne of God. And the smoke belief? “ Even so,” says our Sa- of the incense of the


of the viour, “ there shall be joy in hea- saints ascended up before God,

upon one sinner that doth from the hand of the angel.” And penance, more than upon ninety- not only the angels, but the nine just that need not penance.' twenty-four elders, cast themselves What is here signified, but that before the throne of God, and, as communion of which I spoke, I before remarked, pour out vials whereby a sinner's repenting bere of sweet odours, which are the below is matter of joy and glad- prayers of the saints. What does ness to the angels ? And we are all this signify, but that they do elsewhere taught that the saints of present our prayers to God, and God shall be like his angels. We become intercessors with him ?* have also the angels of individuals

* Wiseman's 13th Lecture, p, 101spoken of : and we are told not to 103.


Prot. And this is the whole that which Dr. Wiseman proposes to the learned doctor can do, in the use them, as a strong testimonial way of proof from Scripture. So of the belief of the Jews.” signal a failure ought of itself Prot. Nothing can be more to decide the whole question. irrational. Here are two old books, Prayer is the one grand topic of one of which, Tobit, is a mass of the Bible. Every saint therein childish absurdities, such as the described, was eminently a man of story of a man's losing his eye-sight prayer. Not less than five hun- by the muting of a sparrow, and dred times do we find prayer, and recovering it by the use of a fish's the act of praying, distinctly spoken liver, with various others of a of. And yet, with all Dr. Wise- similar kind. And of the other, man's research and ingenuity, he is it is sufficient to say, that it aponly able to find four passages in proves and lauds an act of suithe Old Testament, and four in the cide! Neither of these books was New, from which he can possibly ever adınitted by the Jews into draw an inference suited to his the canon of the Scripture, nor views. And on the least ami- yet by the early Christian church. nation, we shall find that not one What are they, then ? Simply of these lends the least countenance two old books, representing the to the practice of your church. opinions of none but their writers.

Roni. Ten, I think, is the How can books that were rejected number of the passages cited. from the first, by the whole body

Prot. Yes, the Doctor quotes of Jewish rabbis, furnish any two verses from the Apocryphal “ testimonial of the belief of the books, but they can have no autho- Jews ?” Perhaps, however, it is but rity in the matter. The care of consistent that the worship of false the books of the Old Testament and spurious mediators should be was committed by God to the supported by the authority of false Jewish - church : • Unto them,and spurious books of Scripture! says St. Paul, were committed Ing. But pass on to the other the oracles of God.” (Rom. iii. 2.) eight passages, which Dr. WiseNow the Jewish church never ac- man quotes from the sacred writknowledged the books of Tobit or ings. the Maccabees as inspired writ- Prot. These will occupy us but ings. We can have nothing, a very short time. The first four therefore, to do with them in this are taken from Daniel, and are as matter. And, in fact, you must follows, be aware that the council of Chal- I heard a man's voice between cedon held in A. D. 451, and at- the banks of Ulai, which called tended by 630 bishops, while sett- and said, Gabriel, make this man ling the canon of Scripture as then to understand the vision.(chap. held, says nothing of these books

viii. 16.) of Tobit and Maccabees.

Yea, while I was speaking in reserved for the Romish church of

prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom a later age,-finding that a few I had seen in the vision at the passages like those which Dr.Wise- beginning, being caused to Ay man has quoted, told in favour of swiftly, touched me about the time their awful fictions of purgatory of the evening oblation.” (chap. and prayer to the saints,-to gather ix. 21.) up and adopt these forgeries which " Then he said unto me, Fear had lain unheeded and disregarded not, Daniel, for from the first day for many hundred years.

that thou didst set thine heart to Rom. Well, but you may

understand, and to chasten thyself surely accept them in the light in before God, thy words were heard,

It was

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