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not any longer trouble the Committee. On the whole, however, he could not help feeling some fear that the provisions of this bill would interfere with some military arrangements of great importance, for the establishment of which he was exceedingly anxious.

Mr. Sheridan professed his inability to understand the argument of the right hon. gent, under the gallery (Mr. Pitt) upon the subject of voluntary offers, and the circumstances under which compulsion should be resorted to. With respect, however, to these voluntary offers, he confessed he could not help agreeing with the hon. baronet who had just sat down, that the probable amount of such offers was rather over rated; but the amendment proposed by the noble lord, of which he much approved, provided that, in case the voluntary spirit should fail, other means should be resorted to, to secure the object of the bill. As to the act of the present session, referred to by the right hon. the Scc. at War, he believed that the fruits of it would be very small indeed. It appeared to be an exact transcript of the act of the last Administration, which was almost universally considered to be a very foolish act, and which not at all answered the ends which those who proposed it professed to have in view. The hon. gent. read an extract from this act, requiring a return of the men, and the manner in which each wished to serve. He stated that at the time this act was carrying into execution, he was in Northumberland, and that he saw the return made from a village in the neighbourhood; from which it appeared that 13 offered to serve in the infantry, 25 in the cavalry, 130 as guides, 260 as waggoners, and 300 as drivers of cattle (a general laugh). He did not mean to infer from this that any want of sufficient zeal for the public service was to be found in the country, nor would he attribute it to any thing like shameful cowardice, but to that which he feared was the case at present, namely, that the people were not sufficiently alive to their dangerof that every man should now be fully aware, and also that in the event of the menaced invasion ak ng place, his person was at the command of his Sovereign.

Mr. Sullivan stated that directions had been dispatched to the several lord lieutenants, c. to make the returns prescribed by the act referred to by the hon. gent.

Mr Sheridan asked whether any returns had yet been made, and of what nature they were ?

Mr. Sullivan answered that there had not been yet sufficient time to send in the returns.

Mr. Windbam heartily concurred in the wishes expressed by the hon. gent. (Mr. Sheridan), that the spirit of the country should be sufficiently reused; and that the argument which the hon. gent. had applied to a measure of the late Administration (operating upon quite a different state of things from the present), but which the hon. gent. him. self had afterwards answered, would not be found to apply hereafter. With regard to the idea of his right hon. friend (Mr. Pitt), that such districts should be exempted from the operations of this act, as should furnish a certain number of volunteers, he highly disapproved of it upon this ground, that it would tend to the introduction of substi tutes, upon an occasion where the arma ment should be general. He also objected to his right hon. friend's opinion, that the men called upon to serve under this bill should, if occasion required, be transferred to other corps. In no instance would he permit volunteers to be thus removed,

Lord Castlereagh explained, that by a clause in this bill the penalties of desertion would attach to any person, who, after hav ing been regularly trained, should decline to come forward in case of invasion.

Lord Hawkesbury wished it to be under stood, that the voluntary offers of a certain number of men in any district, would discharge such district from the obligations of this bill only; but that it was by no means intended to interfere with, or narrow the prerogative of the crown, as seemed to be supposed, for that prerogative would always have the power of calling out all subjects.

Gen. Tarleton said, that a spirit adequate to the crisis was rapidly extending itself throughout this country; or rather, as soon as the possibility of invasion was credited, the spirit of the people immediately stood forth. In Lancashire he stated, that the supplementary militia was almost immediately filled up, and the army of reserve was likely very soon to be complete. The hon, member read a letter which he had lately received from the county alluded to, descriptive of the zeal and spirit which prevailed in that populous district. He spoke in preference of volun tary service over compulsory, and said, some of the most glorious achievements and prodigies of valour detailed in military history were performed by volunteers. He stated two instances: one in the time of the great Prince of Condé, when his army was beaten by a body of 5000 British volunteers under Gen. Boyd; and that prince, in detailing the battle to his court, said, the French fought like men, but the English like devils. The other instance was, where, at a council

of war, and under the advice of the celebrated Vauban, it was determined to attack in the open day a strong fortress of the enemy, which, which was carried by the signal bravery of 100 volunteers; and he was convinced of the truth of the position advanced by Mr. Pitt, that 75 volunteers were at any time better than a hundred men not so raised.

Mr. Canning explained, and vindicated the argument of his right hon. friend (Mr. Pitt), contending that it was not his object to give an exclusive preference to voluntary offers, but to give them a convenient chance with the other mode of levy proposed by the bill. As to the comparisons made between voluntary and compulsory service, he was surprised that a preference should have been given to the latter in a British assembly, particularly by his hon. friend on the other side (Mr. Sheridan), who was, he confessed, the last man in the world from whom he could expect such a sentiment. Indeed, were he disposed to lay a trap for a speech from his hon. friend, he should have thought no expedient more likely to succeed, than to assert that it were better to compel the service of Britons in defence of their country, than to rely on their voluntary exertions.

Mr. Sheridan observed, that the right hon. gent seemed, indeed, to intend his allusion to him as a trap for a speech; but if so, he should be disappointed, for he would simply say, that all he meant in his former observations was this, that we should not deceive ourselvees as to the effect of voluntary zeal, not doubting, however, that the zeal of the people would be amply sufficient for the protection of the country, provided they had an adequate impression of their danger.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, that though much advantage, no doubt, had arisen from the discussion, and many useful lights were thrown upon the subject, yet he wished to remind the Committee, that no progress whatever was made in the bill. He expressed, therefore, his sincere wish that the Committee would proceed to the clauses of the bill, and give them such amendments as appeared necessary; after which the bill, in its amended shape, would be printed, and the discussion might then take place upon the principle; and the bill, if necessary, be recommitted for farther consideration.

General Gascoyne, in reference to what had been said of the preferable service of volunteers, observed, that it was the pecuTiar characteristic of the British armies, to be always entirely composed of volunteers.

Mr. Pitt objected to the time allowed to constables for making the returns of the lists.

Instead of ten days for leaving such lists, he proposed seven days, which amendment was agreed to. He also proposed that instead of seven days, which were allowed to the oc cupiers of houses, &c. to make a return of their inmates, the words two days should be substituted. This amendment was also agreed to.

Mr. Sheridan objected to the exemption of persons who are now serving in the militia by substitute. He said he saw no reason whatever for such exemptions, and the person so serving ought not to be sheltered from the service under the present bill, because he had skulked out of personal service on another occasion. He was the less entitled to exemption also, for having by his money taken away a man as a substitute, who would now, if not so employed, be liable to serve at all all events on the present occasion.

Mr. Pitt agreed in opinion with the hon, gent. who spoke last, and thought that persons serving by substitute in the militia, ought not to be exempt, unless they went to serve in person in the militia, and returned the substitute to fill up the present service.

The Secretary at War said, the principle of the militia laws formed a contract, which was certainly in favour of these persons being exempted, and in a measure of this kind, he thought the House would do well not too press too far; though he allowed many persons would thereby be exempted, he thought they ought not to cut too close on persons who have already paid a sum of money for a substitute, which perhaps they could very ill spare.

Mr. Windham thought this was a new service, and the contract alluded to in the other instance did not extend to it.

The Attorney General was of the same opinion with the Sec. at War, and considered this as a contract which ought to be kept to; this was not to be considered as the case of a gentleman, to whom 251. or 301. may be nothing but it is more likely to be a person who has mortgaged his house or property to raise the money; and in doing so, he thought he was entitled to be exempted in all respects the same as if he had served in person.

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Mr. Pitt supported his former opinion, and thought it no burden on any person, but only that it enabled him to instruct himself in the use of arms, for the purpose of defending his familly, his property, and his country.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he felt this to be a question of expediency, and conceived we should not violate any principle of good faith; for at the time they found subststutes, they had no more this measure

in contemplation than his Majesty's ministers bad.

Mr. Tierney was of the same opinion as the Attorney General, and thought the exemption ought to stand good.

Mr. W. Smith said, an armed multitude, without knowing the use of arms, was no more than a vast number of men drawn out for slaughter. Government was, therefore, doing a service to every one by having him instructed in the use of arms; and he was, therefore, against the exemption.

Mr. P. Carew thought those who are now serving by substitute, at least, ought to be put into the fourth class under the present bill.

Lord Hawkesbury said, the militia law gave a man the power either to serve in person or by substitute. When the question of the army of reserve was before the House, the exception was made; but the present measure is so different in its nature and charactet, there can be no comparison.

On the question being put, the exemption was done away; and persons now serving by substitute are liable to the present mea

sure.

On the clause being read which went to regulate the days and hours on which the first class are to be exercised and trained to Iarms, it was mentioned from the 25th March to the 25th Dec.

Mr. Pitt rose, and said, that this was part of the bill to which he wished particuJarly to call the attention of the House. The great object of the present measure was to obtain, with as much celerity as possible, a very large mass of the people, so well instructed in the use of arms, as that in case of a great emergency, and an actual invasion, they might to be able to march against and fight the enemy with effect. It was of the utmost importance, therefore, that this instruction and training should be gained in as short a time as possible, for there could be no doubt but the enemy, active and vigilant as he was on all occasions, would use every effort to carry his insolent design of invading us, before we can take all the means in our power to repel his attacks. The season of the year best adapted for his succeeding in such a design, was that in which long nights, and the stormy weather incident to the season, might enable him, from our cruizers being blown off their stations, to push over his forces before they could return to them again. It is, therefore, highly necessary that we should be as speedy in advancing this measure as possible; and when it shall be once brought into a state of forwardness, he should believe that it would be

a means of making our insolent foe, with all his mighty vaunts, pause before he ventured on so rash a step as that of attaking us on our shores. If, however, that haughty foe should be so daring, he (Mr. Pitt) had no doubt but his attempt would end in discomfiture and disgrace; and that our brave countrymen would, by that discomfiture, give a glorious example to all Europe of what may be achieved by a gallant and courageous people, who are determined to live free or die. A French army beaten and discomfited, and driven back to their own coasts with disgrace, might also have the great effect of rousing the powers of Europe from that state of apathy and lethargy in which they have for some time past been sunk, and might also awaken in the French people themselves sentiments of resentment and indignation, which would make our haughty foe severely repent the temerity and insolence of his attempt. He therefore hoped that all descriptions of persons would cheerfully give up their time to so important a purpose, and that even our harvest should be in some measure delayed, rather than this measure should not be forwarded. The landholder, the great farmer, and the little farmer, should all now consider that the first of our care should be to secure the grain that is now in the ground for its true and real owners, and prevent it from becoming pos sessed by spoilers and invaders. He would, therefore, take the liberty to propose some amendments, and that instead of one day in a week (Sunday), should be substituted one or more days and that such a number of days should be allotted for that purpose, as in the opinions of military men would be suffi cient to attain that degree of training as would enable them to act immediately with effect; for instance, two or three days in a week, or so many days successively, at periods of small distance, as should make up twenty days at the least, and not more than thirty. He thought no persons who considered the danger of our present situation would object to this, which could not fail to be attended with the most beneficial effects, and which, in its result, may turn for ever, in a great degree, the future destinies of England and the world.

After a very long conversation, it was agreed that the days for drilling should be Sunday, or any other convenient day in

the week.

A conversation of considerable length took place on that clause by which the men were to be exercised on Sunday. It was strongly objected to by Mr. R. Thornton, Mr. Wilberforce, and Mr. W. Smith, Gen.

Maitland, Sir William Erskine, and Mr. Grant, that such a thing would be totally incompatible with the religious scruples of the people of Scotland, who would refuse to comply with any act of Parliament that enjoined them to commit such a breach of the Sabbath.

Mr. Pitt said, he had as tender a regard for the religious scruples of individuals as any man; and in a country where the whole of the people were nearly of one opinion, as in Scotland, he would never recommend the adoption of any such violent and outrageous proceeding as that of forcing them to do a thing repugnant to their consciences; therefore, although the word Sunday might be omitted in the bill when applied to Scotland, he saw no reason why that should be done with regard to England, where a very small portion of the people comparatively dissented from the established Church; and notwithstanding the reputation many of these had for exemplary piety, the truth of which he very much doubted, he wished that number was still less. For the sake of those few, he would not leave out of the bill a most useful provision; which, so far from being inconsistent with the tenets of the Church of England, was perfectly conformable to them. This was a subject of very great importance, and it was necessary to impress on men's minds, that next to the performance of their religious duties, the defence of their country was a duty of the most sacred and indispensable nature; and he did not see how it could be contrary to our established religion, for men to devote that short interval of the Sunday, which, after the performance of divine service, was usually spent in recreation, to the object of preparing for their defence against an enemy, who would destroy the whole of their religion and liberties. He was sure no doctrine in the Church of England forbad such a practice; and he saw no reason why the word Sunday should be omitted from the bill, because a small number of persons might object to exercise on that day.

Sir Wm. Curtis wished to know what those gents. who wanted to prevent all training on a Sunday, would recommend to be done, if the enemy was to land on Sunday? Would the omnipotent Creator of the world be offended at our troops being sent out to protect us from destruction?

The Secretary at War said, that, in consequence of what had been stated relative to the opinions of the people of Scotland, he would omit Sunday in the bill with regard to them but with respect to England it must be retained a provision being made, at the

same time, to enable the lord lieut. to appoint any other convenient day beside Sunday, for the purpose of exercising the men. This provision would satisfy the religious scruples of persons in England who might object to going out on Sunday. He then introduced a clause to this effect, which was agreed to.-The House then continued debating on several other clauses of the bill; and several other amendments were adopted. The bill being gone through, it was ordered to be reported that day.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Thursday, July 21.

MINUTES.-A bill to correct a clerical error in the former bill, which had passed, relative to allowing spiritual persons to hold farms, and to enforce the residence of the clergy, was brought up by Sir William Scott and others, presented, and read a first time. -The Earl of Westmorland brought down a message from his Majesty, relative to the present situation of the House of Orange. (See Commons).-Ordered to be taken into consideration on Monday.

[WOOLLEN MANUFACTURE.]-The order of the day for going into a Committee of the whole House upon a bill intituled "An act to suspend, until the 1st day of July, 1804, proceedings in actions, prosecu tions, and proceedings under certain acts, relating to the woollen manufacture, and also under an act of the reign of Elizabeth, so far as the same relates to certain persons employed or concerned in the same manufacture," having been read,

Mr. Fielding came to the bar as counsel for the journeymen weavers, and said, that if that gigantic measure of the bill, to sweep away all the existing statutes, had been per sisted in, his clients would have been in a deplorable situation indeed, as they would have been deprived of all the protection those statutes extended to them; but their lordships having their attention called at present to a short bill of suspension, he would not add to their fatigue, by a long occupation of their time. He then confined himself to two single points, imploring their lordships so to frame the bill in the Committee, as to take care that a provision should be inserted to prevent the introduction of any new machinery during the period of the suspension, and the other to secure the petitioners all the benefits of the act of Elizabeth, respecting apprentices.

The Lord Chancellor said, the title of this bill stated that it was an act to suspend, for a given time, proceedings in actions, prosecu

tions, &c. &c. and that in fact ought to be the sole principle of the bill; but the first clause went far beyond the reach of the title, and actually proceeded to suspend the operation of the various acts themselves, upon which such actions and prosecutions had been founded. The Legislature could never, he conceived, mean to go that length, and therefore he should move in the Committee, such amendments as should confine the bill to what ought to be purely its principle, viz. a bill of suspension of the actions and proscautions already commenced. His lordship said, that the necessity of passing some bill arose from the Commons having sent up to that House another bill, which was a bill of great magnitude and importance, and which it was impossible for that House, at so advanced a period of the session, to give that due consideration and attention to which so large and comprehensive a matter as that bill went to, absolutely required. That a number of provisions in the old statutes stood in need of revision, no man could deny: many of the regulations contained in those laws were actually impracticable, and inflicted penalties on the woollen manufacturers for not doing what, from the change of circumstances, it was at this time of day impossible for them to perform. From such provisions, accompanied with penalties, they ought to be relieved; but it was one thing to grant necessary relief, and another to go the length of sweeping away at once all the statutes, and all the various regulations they contained. Many of those regulations were still useful and fit to be reserved. At any rate it was incumbent upon their lordships to be enabled to judge for themselves, upon the policy of so important a change in the law, before they decided upon it. The Commons had sent them a copy of the evidence that had been adduced before their Committee upon the bill, but their lordships could not admit that as evidence, they must go into the examination of witnesses themselves, and a great deal of examination would be absolutely necessary. It being, therefore, impossible to proceed with the other bill, they were necessarily driven to the present bill of suspension; but although they agreed to suspend existing actions and prosecutions, till Parliament could have duly considered the subject, they ought to leave the old statute entire and untouched; indeed, that was the only regular and parliamentary course of proceeding. With regard to what had been said of the introduction of machinery in the interim, and during the suspension, great doubts had been entertained whether gig mills were further affected

by the ancient statute, than the recital of the clauses in that bill stated; and it had been replied by some of the learned lawyers heard at the bar, that they were not. But if any clause was meant to be moved for insertion in the present bill, it ought to be drawn with great caution, and so framed, that it should not go one atom beyond its real object, because if it did, it might raise additional doubts and difficulties, and interfere with the use of gig-mills in the manufactory of woollen cloth, for such purposes as were not only not injurious to the manufacture, but highly useful, and had been habitually in practice for many years. With respect to the taking apprentices, under the act of Elizabeth, his own idea was, that that statute, like all the others, should be left as it was during the continuance of the suspension. The practice ought for the present to go on as usual, where the manufacturer either took apprentices, or what was as good as apprentices, bred up boys for seven years to the business, in the nature of apprentices. His lordship made some other observations, and then moved first, that the consideration of the preamble, and next, that the whole of the first clause be omitted, His lordship afterwards moved a great variety of amendments in the bill; among others, that the words "1803" be omitted in the title, and the words " 1804" be inserted. At length having gone through the bill, the House was resumed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Thursday, July 21.

[MINUTES.]-A message from the Lords announced their having agreed to the Grenada loan and some private bills.-The clergy farming and residence amendment bill, was read a third time and passed.-The Chatham chest transfer bill was read a third time and passed.-Lord Hawkesbury then appeared at the bar, and delivered to the following effect, a message from his Majesty.-G. R. His Majesty having taken into "consideration the present situation of the "illustrious House of Orange, the bonds of "alliance and affinity between him and that "illustrious family, the important services "it has rendered to this country on so many "occasions, and the losses it sustained in "the course of the late war, recommends "these circumstances to the attention of his "faithful Commons, trusting that they will "enable him to make such pecuniary allow ance, to that illustrious family, as may be "warranted by its present situation, and the justice of this country."--Lord

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