Phipps,

Phipps, J. G.

Smith, Afheton

Plumer, Wm.:

Somerfet, Lord E.

Pytches, John

Staniforth, John
Stanley, Lord.

Stuart, Lord W.
Thornton, S.

Thornton, Robert

Turner, E.

Thelluffon, I. P.
Tarleton, General
Townshend, Lord J.
Villiers, hon. J. C.
Ward, Robert
Ward, hon. J. W.
Wilberforce, Wm.
White, M.
Walpole, hon. G.
Windham, right hon. W.
Wynne, Sir W.W.
Wynne, C. W.
Wrottefley, Sir J.

Wigram, R.
Western, C. C.
Wharton, John

Winnington, Sir E...
Wood, George
Young, Sir Wm.

Stanhope, S.

The Marquis of Stafford moved, that his notice of a motion relating to the defence of the country, which flood for Friday, thould be discharged, and that the fame fhould be poftponed to Monday, for which day he moved that the Lords fhould be fummoned. Ordered.

IRISH MILITIA.

Lord Hawkesbury moved, that the Irish militia transfer bill be read a third time.

The Lord Chancellor stated the opinions which he had given

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on

on a former occafion, with respect to fome particular objec tions that had been urged against that part of the bill which it was contended would fubject the Irish militia to the penalties and difqualifications impofed by the ftatute of the 25th Charles II. He had given the fubject much confideration fince it was laft difcuffed, and the impreffion upon his mind was, that Roman Catholic officers or foldiers of the Irith militia, who should come into this country under the operation of the present act, would come into it with all the privileges and immunities attached to them, that they poffeffed in confequence of the act of the 33d of the King. Such, upon mature deliberation, was his opinion, and fuch he could af fert to be the opinion of another noble and learned Lord, whom he did not then fee in his place.

The Duke of Norfolk afked whether Roman Catholics admitted into the Irifh militia in this country, would be exempt from the disabilities of the act of the 25th of Charles II.

The Lord Chancellor gave it as his opinion that they would be exempt.

Earl Spencer did not feel himself competent to argue the question with the profeffional ability of the noble and learned Lords, but it certainly, in the little judgment that he, a plain unlearned man, ould form on the fubject, appeared extremely neceffa ry tohim, as doubts had been entertained on the subject, that a pofitive declaration and precise enactment fhould fet them to rest.

The Lord Chancellor stated, that one of the greatest inconveniencies profeffional men, who were called upon to pronounce judicial decifions, laboured under, arofe from the confufion that was produced by overloading acts of parliament with unneceffary claufes. Of that defcription he conceived the clause to be that it was proposed to introduce; and there. fore he would feel it his duty to oppofe it.

Lord Ellenborough corroborated the opinion of the noble and learned Lord on the woolfack, as to the exemption of Roman Catholic officers or privates of the militia from the operation of the laft act.

Lord Grenville had every refpect for, and was disposed to receive with all the deference that was due to them, the opinions of profeffional members of that House, on profeffional questions. But this was a fubject of rather a legislative than a judicial character, and, therefore, he was excufable in differing from the noble and learned Lords who had favoured the Houfe with their opinions on the question. If, indeed, the queftion had been decided in another place, by the noble

and

and learned Lord who prefided in the Court of King's Bench, there his authority was recognized, and his opinion would be fubmitted to with that general approbation that his great learning and profeffional talents entitled him to expect. But here, he spoke it with all due refpe&t, the noble Lord could only be confidered as a peer of parliament, and his opinion was not entitled to more refpect than that of any other peer, except as it should be fupported by fuperior argument. He did not agree with the noble and learned Lord, that the chaufe was unneceffary. Doubts had been excited in the breafts of his Majefty's Catholic fubjects, officers of militia, and, therefore, he deemed it extremely important that they should be quieted. To effect that he had taken the trouble of preparing a claufe which he would take the liberty of offering to the Houfe, the purport of which was, that perfons profeffing the Roman Catholic religion, and others ferving as officers, noncommiffioned officers, or privates, in the militia of Ireland, fhould not be fubject to any difabilities or penalties in this country that they were exempt from in Ireland.

Lord Carleton fupported the arguments of the tivo noble and learned Lords, and the opinions which they grounded on them.

Lord Grenville profeffed himself not fatisfied with the extra judicial decifions that had been given on this point, and wished that the determination refpecting it thould reft on more folid and certain grounds, than opinions thrown out loofely and occafionally in the courfe of debate. He wifhed for a special provifion that would apply particularly to the question.

The Bishop of St. Afaph was inclined to pay the utmost deference to the opinion of the noble and learned Lords; but he thought it his duty, as the perfon who had first moved the queftion, to fupport the claufe propofed by the noble Baron, the effect of which, he had every reason to fuppose, would completely fatisfy the minds of the Roman Catholics. ferving in the militia.

Lord Hawkesbury and the Marquis of Sligo opposed the claufe, which was fupported by Lord Mulgrave, in reply to whom

Lord Ellenborough role again, and gave it as his decided opinion, that no Roman Catholic officer who had been admitted into the Irish militia in that country, and who should come here in confequence of the bill before the Houfe, would be fubject to the operation of the 25th of Charles, and for this good reason, that it would not be poffible to frame fuch an information against fuch officer on that ftatute, as could bring

him

him within the fpirit or letter of that act, which required fix months previous refidence, before he could be fubject to the provifions of it.

On Lord Grenville's amendment the Houfe divided, Coa tents 45, Non Contents 71, Majority against the amend

ment 26.

On the motion for the paffing of the bill,

Earl Mulgrave declared his difapprobation of the measure and of the conduct of Minifters in general, for whom, though he individually profeffed a fincere regard, and though he confidered them men of integrity and refpectability, he declared that he did not think them adequate to the management of public affairs. So much did he think ability requifite at the present moment, that, were he forced to the choice, he was free to declare that he would prefer greater ability with lefs integrity than the prefent Minifters poffeffed. This, however, there was no occafion for adopting. This country was not deftitute of men who, to the most confummate ability, joined the highest integrity.

Earl Carnarvon alfo oppofed the bill; which was fupported by the Earl of Weftmoreland; when the House again divided on the queftion that the bill do pafs, Contents 91, NonContents 49, Majority for paffing of the bill 42.

The third reading of the Irish militia augmentation bill was then moved for.

Lord King oppofed the bill, as a measure that would prove wholly inefficient for creating any great acceffion to the pub lic force. His Lordthip condemned the policy observed by his Majefty's Government towards the people of Ireland, and feverely reproved the indifcretion of a noble and learned Lord refiding in that country, in having, in his correspondence with a noble Lord of a different religious perfuafion from his own, circulated fentiments and opinions tending to uphold the lamentable abufes which had fo long prevailed in that country, in which he was forry to fay there appeared a difpo fition, on the part of the wealthy, to opprefs and abuse those who were actually entitled to their protection.

The Earl of Limerick condemned, in fpirited language, the obfervations of the noble Baron, and maintained that there was no difpofition, on the part of any of the opulent claffes in his country, to opprefs any of their fellow country

men.

Lord Ellenborough would not have faid a word on the prefent fubject, had it not been for the reflections which had fallen from a noble Lord oppofite to him, against another noble

Lord,