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their traditions. Let them prove to us that their traditions are the identical traditions of which the Apostle here speaks, and then we shall have no hesitation in receiving them; but it is quite absurd to argue that traditions are spoken of in Scripture, and forthwith, by a tremendous leap, to arrive at the conclusion that the traditions of the Church of Rome are those traditions.

Another passage was adduced from the 2nd Epistle to the Thessalonians, 3rd chapter, 6th verse:

"We charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly, and not according to the tradition which they have received of us.'

In reference to this passage-I say

1st, As in the case of the text just considered, the mere use of the word tradition here proves nothing: and, considering that the Apostle had written another Epistle to the Thessalonians before this, I should like to know why I have not just as much right to conclude that he here alluded to instructions which he had delivered in his first Epistle, as Mr. Brown has to conclude that they were mere oral instructions. But

2ndly, It is a remarkable fact, that Chrysostom, Theodoret, Ecumenius, and others of the Fathers, say that the tradition here alluded to by the Apostle, was one which he delivered by his works, in which he gave them an example of industry. And this appears very probable from what immediately follows, where he says:

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"For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us: for we were not disorderly among you: neither did we eat any man's bread for nothing, but in labour and in toil we worked night und day, lest we should be chargeable to any you. Not as if we had not power: but that we might give ourselves a pattern unto you, to imitate us. For also, when we were with you, this we declared unto you; that, if any man will not work, neither let him eat. For we have heard that there are some among you who walk disorderly, working not at all, but curiously meddling," &c.

These two answers will suffice for this passage.

The 2nd Epistle to Timothy, 1st chap. 13th verse, was then cited :

"Hold the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith, and in the love which is in Christ Jesus."

I cannot see how an argument can fairly be drawn from this in support of tradition, especially when we recollect that the Apostle had written a previous Epistle to Timothy. This passage occurs in the second Epistle, and I say, therefore (as in the case of the other passage), I have as much right to conclude that the allusion of the Apostle here is to his first Epistle, as Mr. Brown has to refer it to oral

teaching. However, as we said on the other passages, let the form of sound words be produced and authenticated, and then we shall receive it.

Whether I have given a correct interpretation of these passages or not, I have at least come to their investigation; while Mr. Brown, on the contrary, has not come to the investigation of the passages in defence of the Protestant Rule of Faith which I adduced yesterday: at least he has noticed only two or three of them.

THE REV. T. M. MACDONNELL.

WHEN I came into this part of the country I was not aware that my Rev. friend would ask me to take a part in this discussion; however, I willingly acceded to the request made by him, and if I advert to the topic of which I have spoken, it is because I consider it a duty every man owes to the sacred cause which is before you, that he who engages in it should endeavour to be as well prepared to do justice to it as possible.

In taking part in this important discussion, I beg leave to add my exhortations to those which you have before heard, that every thing in the shape of prejudice, or of preconceived impressions, should be as much as possible removed from your minds. I trust that the Rev. gentlemen on the other side are impressed with that great truth, which is seated deeply in our minds and hearts, that we shall be answerable for the doctrines we deliver to the people of God; and that, in a very short time, when we descend into the grave, it will be a matter of no consequence whether we have excited the approbation or the censure of others; but it will be a matter of very great consequence whether we shall have been in the hands of our ever beneficent and good God, humble instruments in promoting his truth, and doing good to the souls of our brethren. It is with these principles strongly impressed on my mind that I rise to address this respectable audience; and I repeat my earnest request, that they will for a moment disengage themselves from every party feelingthat they will consider it possible that truth may be on one side, and that it may be, by possibility, on the other. If, Sir, they give me their patient attention, and endeavour

to divest themselves so far of their preconceived opinions, I humbly trust that those principles that appear to me clear and irresistible, may make some impression on their

minds.

Most willingly do I give credit to the Rev. gentleman on the opposite side for great talent, great command of language, great skill in the selection of his arguments, and address in replying to those of his opponent; but, I bring this as a charge against him, because, notwithstanding these advantages, he continually slips away, whenever he has the opportunity, from that subject which solely and entirely he is bound to consider at present, in order that he may assail the principles of his Catholic brethren. This has uniformly been the case. This accounts for the satisfaction with which he plunged into the Apocrypha yesterday; and this explains the nature of his intimacy with the Fathers-an intimacy just contracted, as he tells us, with a view to destroy their authority, and to prove that they are of no value.

What is the question after all? Mr. Tottenham cannot deny that he has chosen his subject for discussion in the following week, simply and solely that he may attack the Catholic Church; he cannot deny that the subject he has selected, the holy sacrifice of the Mass, has been selected in order that he may have the exclusive privilege of assailing the Catholic Church. Is it not quite clear, therefore, that, in the spirit of impartiality and justice, he should undertake, during these three days, to prove his own principles instead of assailing ours? This, Sir, he has not done.

I shall not follow Mr. Tottenham through the several texts of the Sacred Scripture which he has produced, but I will request his attention, and respectfully invite that of this assembly, to certain points, reflection upon which will, I think, clearly prove that for the great mass of Christians the Scriptures require explanation; and if the Scriptures do require explanation, something besides the mere letter of Scripture is requisite to enable the inquirer to know the revealed will of God.

Now, what is it upon which we are arguing? It is, whether the Scripture alone be the rule of faith; whether it be the only rule of faith which Christ has given to mankind; and we want to know, of all the different doctrines of Christian Churches, which are the true doctrines of Jesus Christ. The gentleman on the other side holds

certain doctrines, what they are he has not told us; we teach different doctrines; probably certain other Rev. gentlemen present teach doctrines different from us both; and again, there are certain other Rev. gentlemen not present who teach doctrines different from all three; yet we all claim to belong to the Christian Church. Now these contradictory doctrines cannot proceed from the God of truth; for if, for instance, God has taught the Unitarian to know that the ever blessed Saviour was no more than man, he has not taught me that he is God. With regard, in like manner, to any other point, if he has taught one side, he most clearly has not taught the other; this is clear to the commonest understanding. Let us suppose, then, they are the doctrines of Christianity upon which we desire to determine. Now, who is it that has a right to give us a rule for that purpose? Clearly the Divine Author of Christianity, our blessed Redeemer, Jesus Christ. It is he alone that can give us this rule. Is there, then, any part of our blessed Redeemer's teaching in which this is clearly laid down, that the Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be the rule by the application of which his disciples should find out the true religion? I am sure the gentleman on the other side will not venture to say that our Saviour's language came in any respect near to this principle; but, if Christ has not taught us, I beg leave to say, I do not mean to receive it from the gentlemen of the Reformation Society. If Christ has taught it, they will tell us where it is taught; they will let us hear it in such clear language as will convince every one who is disposed to be convinced. Our Saviour gave instructions to his apostles; he told them what to do in order to convert the world, but He never told them to go and write; so that in regard to the inspiration of which the Rev. gentleman spoke, I should be glad to know how the poor man is able to prove that inspiration. He tells us that inspiration here amounts to a command. Inspiration, however, amounts only to this-that a person teaching according to the promises of Almighty God, and under the influence of the sacred Spirit, whether he teaches by word of mouth, as St. Paul saith, or by epistle, he is equally under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Now, having stated that there is no part of Scripture in which our blessed Saviour delivers this rule, and having repudiated the authority of the gentlemen of the Reformation Society, I come to another important point, namely,

that which in fact was laid down by my Rev. friend yesterday, that there are a vast number of people to whom this rule could not apply. What was the answer? That the objection is equally applicable to the rule laid down by the Catholic Church. But of what value is the answer of the Rev. gentleman? Good heavens! Does he always imagine that he has no other vocation in the world than to assail the members of the Catholic Church? That he is not to teach any doctrines upon their own merits, but to oppose and assail the principles only of Catholics? Suppose a poor man, who could not read, should come and ask him, "How am I to make out a religion from the Bible, for I cannot read it?" Would he say, "You cannot do much more if you go to the Catholics?" What would be the poor man's answer? "Sir, I do not mean to go to the Catholics; but I ask you as an expositor of the doctrines of Christianity, as one who goes about in the name of a Society in order to supply the deficiencies of the Established Church, as one who has superseded the bishops of that Church, as one who comes to reform an old reformation that seems to be worn out, I ask you of what use is the Bible to me, and the Bible alone, when I cannot read it after I have got it?" It follows that talking about the Catholic rule is entirely out of the question. Are immortal souls of so little value that they may be committed to the cast of a die? That a person must take his chance about a preference due to this party or that party? And if the minister will not lay down principles it is clear he cannot impress them upon the mind of the person who applies to him for instruction. Does he not suffer a person to come to him for the waters of life, and to go away without being refreshed? Nothing is clearer than that it is an absurdity to tell a person who cannot read, Here is the book for you; make out a religion from that book. This is the principle which the gentleman has enforced.

But there is another point: very many persons when they have read, cannot decide whether the reading is according to the original language in which the Scriptures were written. And when the gentleman presents the Bible, let it be remembered that he is delivering a translation of the Bible, and delivering a translation which no one thinks inspired, and which has no greater authority than an Act of Parliament. We have not yet found that a Church founded on an Act of Parliament is that of Christ and his Apostles. It is an acknowledged fact, that

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