he can prove his proposition, according to his own method. And that, I affirm, he can never do. Let him undertake it, and he will fail as signally as he has on the other words-apolia and appollumi.

I will now show you that this word olethros, rendered "destruction" in the text, is explained by the Apostle Paul to mean punishment and tribulation. 1 Cor. 5:5. "To deliver such an one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh (olethros tes sorkos) that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.' Here Paul commands the Corinthian church "to deliver such an one (that is, the fornicator) to Satan for the destruction of the flesh." But was this "destruction" inflicted? And if so, did it annihilate the man? I answer, it was inflicted; but instead of annihilating him, it improved his condition-it made him better. For Paul writes in the second epistle, telling them to restore him again to their fellowship: and calling what had been inflicted upon him a punishment. "Sufficient for

such a man is the punishment, which was inflicted by the majority or many." Here the destruction of the flesh" (olethros tes sarkos) which was inflicted upon this fornicator, and which, instead of annihilating him, made him better, is defined by the Apostle Paul to mean "punishment." It was a disciplinary chastisement or punishment which brought him to repentance and reformation. And hence, when this was effected Paul wrote the church to restore him.

Again, in the same connection in which this phrase "everlasting destruction" occurs, 2 Thess. 1:6, the Apostle defines it to mean tribulation.— Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; and to you who are troubled, rest with us; when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall be punished with everlasting destruetion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power." Let it be noted now, that what the Apostle calls tribulation in the sixth verse of this chapter, he calls everlasting destruction in the ninth. Hence it is not annihilation, but conscious suffering or punishment as in the case of the fornicator. And the passage is in perfect harmony with Matt. 25: 46.— "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal,"

The punishment of the wicked. then, is not everlasting non-existence, but everlasting punishment of conscious suffering; away from the presence of God, and the glories of Heaven, and the society of the blessed; in hopeless despair; in outer darkness, where there is weeping and wailing, and gnashing of teeth; where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched; where they shall see Abrahain, Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the Kingdom of God, and themselves cast out.

Oh! wretched state of deep despair!

To see my God remove,

And fix my doleful station where

I must not taste his love!”

[Time expired.

THIRD SPEECH OF ELD. GRANT.

Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen:

I will read the definition of the word olethros, found in 2 Thess. 1: 9. It is defined by Liddell and Scott, "death, destruction, loss of life," and it remains to be proved that destruction in 2 Thess. 1: 9, does not mean loss of life. Paul uses the expression again, and says, "Their end is destruction." Would death be the destruction of a man? He says, wages of sin is death."

"the

Another word was introduced from Daniel,-"shame and everlasting contempt." The Hebrew word d'rüh-õhn', here rendered shame, occurs but once more in the Bible, which is in Isa. 66: 24. "And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasess of the men that have transgressed against me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." Says Dr. Wintell, it denotes a kind of spectacle, show or nausea," and is translated "nausea" by Buxtorf, in his concordance. In the case of Arnold the traitor, we speak of him in abhorrence. But it does not prove that he is conscious of it, by any means.

My brother claims that hades is a place of punishment, but does not ell us where it is. He says destruction of demons means going out of That is a new definition!

men.

He says there is an analogy between the first and second death. That is just what we claim. The first is "extinction of life," and so is the second.

We come to the main point of his last remarks, which is the consideration of degrees of punishment. He that for one sin or many they says must have the same punishment, according to our position. With my

it

brother's view, they have ETERNAL miserg for one sin; and can they have any longer for a thousand ? We do not find the doctrine of degrees of punishment in the Bible, Mr. Chairman. All the passages quoted by my brother fails, excepting one, and we will now look at that. Luke 12: 47-48. "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required; and to whom men have committed much, of him they shall ask the more." Who are those that the Lord chastens ? and where is it done? Every son he loves, in this world. A minister once said to me, I know what that passage means. I committed an error many years ago and have suffered chastisement for it over since. They are beaten with many stripes in this life.

We pass to illustrate the idea of degrees of punishment. Suppose a man kills his neighbor in Seneca Falls; and another man kills a thous and. We arrest, examine, condemn and execute both alike. Is the law just? According to my brother's idea, that man who has killed a thous and, should have a thousand times more torment than the other. soon as one man begins to torment, another we call it heathenish. We do

As

not practice such things in civilized countries, and yet my brother's theory makes God torture the sinner ETERNALLY; God wishes us to be merciful, because he is; but the most merciful would not torment his fellow man for one year before killing him. Paul says the wicked " are worthy of death;" ;" and when we kill a being, we do not torment him a while before we take his life, neither do we think God does.

In reviewing our brother's remarks during the discussion, we find him admitting that Adam and all his posterity are mortal. This being true, as we have endeavored to prove, it follows that Satan uttered a lie when he said, "Ye shall not surely die." We find no other passage which teaches that man has an immortal spirit; and as Satan was a liar from the beginning, the whole matter is settled, if we adhere to the Bible. My brother says, death is not to die. Death is the end of dying. When a man is dying he is approaching a point where he will cease to live. The wages of sin is NOT DYING, but DEATH. We have shown by quotations. from the Fathers, that they did not believe in the doctrine of eternal misery, but, like Paul, they taught that "the wages of sin is death." that they were to be devoured like wood that is burned up.

My opponent says it is "no punishment to be put out of existence."He would have to reason with us till we are older than now, before we we could be made to believe that death is no punishment. We hold that eternal life in the coming kingdom is the highest possible reward; and that eternal death is the highest possible punishment; because the sinner lose all the righteous gain.

Why put a sinner where he cannot help but sin, and then punish him for sinning by tormenting him eternally. Is not death or destruction a punishment? Paul answers, "the wages of sin is death." My brother says it is eternal life in misery.

In conclusion, we would say, first, we have shown from many passages in the Old and New Testaments, that the nature of future punishment is expressed by such words as, "destroy, destruction, perish, devour, consume, death, burn up, &c." These original words are defined, " to end," "to extirpate,' "" to blot out," "erase," "to destroy utterly," "to finish," "" to annihilate," "to bring to nothing." Admitting, Mr. Chairman, that the punishment is destruction, death, as the Bible affirms, we ask how it could be expressed, if not in the very words now employed? We see but one way to avoid our conclusion, which is to say perish does not mean perish,-destroy does not mean destroy, and that death does not mean death, when applied to the wicked, but to keep them alive.

Second. After showing the nature of punishment, that it is death,destruction; we then brought positive Scripture to show that it is ETERNAL. Matt. 25: 46. "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment; but the righteous into life eternal." 2 Thess. 1; 9. "They shall be punished with everlasting (or eternal) destructiou.” The word rendered punishment in Matt. 25: 46, is defined, "to cut off," "excission," "abscission." The sinner has broken the law, the penalty of which is death; hence justice says he must die. He is in great misery on account of the approaching penalty, hence mercy says, let him die,—take his life,

-end his suffering.

of the sinner.

Consequently justice and mercy unite in the death

Let us for a few moments look on the bright side of the subject: Ps. 37: 22. "For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off." Prov. 21: 21-22. “For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it." When they are rooted out, they do not come around the city. They are without. No place is found for them. My brother will not claim that the wicked are to be eternally surrounding the righteous in the kingdom. All the thieves, robbers, murderers, &c., will be cast away and burned. up. Prov. 10: 29-30. "The way of the Lord is strength to the upright; but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity. The righteous shall never be removed; but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth." Ps. 37: 9-11. "For evil doers shall be cut off; but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, aud the wicked shall not be; yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace." 2 Pet. 3: 13. "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." Now we begin to see something bright looming up. Rev. 21: 1. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." Num. 14: 21. "But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord." When the earth is

full of the glory of the Lord, where are the wicked? As they are to be punished upon the earth, their punishment either converts or destroys them. The Bible says they are destroyed. Then follows Rev. 21: 9-10. "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests; and we shall reign on the earth." Next comes Rev. 5: 13, to complete the picture. "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." At this time there are none wailing in hades, gehenna, or tartarus; but the wicked, with the demons and the Devil, are blotted out of existence. The earth is then restored to her Eden beauty and lovliness, the good alone being preserved, and made immortal. There is no wailing of the damned, but ALL praieing God. The whole earth is full of his glory. The Saints have taken the Kingdom, under the whole Heaven, and as there is not an intimation in the whole Bible that the wicked shall be punished anywhere else, than upon this earth, where are they when everything is praising God? We have shown that they are dead. Hence our proposition is sustained by the Scriptures.-"The punishment of the wicked consists in the eternal extinction of their being."

THIRD SPEECH OF ELD. CLAYTON.

Mr. President, Ladies and Gentleman:

My opponent still confounds extinction of life with extinction of being. Thanatos, (death,) according to his own definition, as well as that of all the lexicons, means simply extinction of life." And yet he relies on this word to prove his proposition-that "the punishment of the wicked will consist in the eteranal extinction of their being! This, certainly, is strange logic! If death is merely the extinction of life, it is not the extinction of being, even of the body, to say nothing about the spirit. For if it were. we could never see a corpse-the moment death took effect, the body would disappear, would be extinguished-would go into non-existence; and there would be no necessity for coffin or grave; for there would be nothing to put into them! To say nothing about the spirit, the very fact that the body is in existence after death has taken its effect, and needs to be shrouded, coffined and buried, demonstrates to our senses that death is not an extinction of being. This shows the utter shallowness and absurdity of my opponents reasoning.

He has made quite an effort to prove that olethros means "extinction of being." And well he might, for his whole argument depends upon it. It is the only word rendered "destruction" that is qualified by the adjective eternal, (aionios,) and hence the desperate necessity he is under to make out that it means "extinction of being," in order to prove his proposition. But he has utterly failed; and, as a consequence, his whole theory falls to the ground.

The word olethros occurs but four times in the Bible, and in every instance it is used in the sense of conscious suffering, as the connection most clearly shows. In 1 Cor. 5: 5-it is applied to the "punishment" of a fornicator; and, as I have already shown, instead of annihilating him, it made him better-brought him to penitence and reformation. In the same connection. where it is associated with aionios. and translated "everlasting destruction," (2 Thess. 1: 6-9) it is defined by the Apostle to mean tribulation." which is an element of conscious suffering, and incompatible with annihilation. In Thess. 5: 3-it is compared to the pains of child birth. "For when they shall say peace and safety, then sudden destruction folethros) cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." In 1 Tim. 6: 9-it is defined by the phrase. and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. These are all the instances in which the word oocurs, and instead of sustaining my opponent's theory, it is directly opposed to it.

66

He has noticed my proof from Dan. 12: 2—“ And many that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." I claimed that the literal rendering of this passage from the Septuagint is shame and ignominy elernal." But he contends that it is "eternal abhorrence," and quotes some authority on the subject. Now, I should like to know who it is that abhors. Can nonentities abhor? or is it God who abhors non-entities? Strange that He should eternally abhor that which has no existence! But the passage plainly teaches that the conscious emotion of shame and ignominy" will exist in the minds of the wicked eternally.

I showed that, according to my opponent's theory, there can be no degrees of punishment. But to retaliate, he asks how can there be any upon my hypothesis? If all are punished eternally, how can some be