tween Michael and the Devil about the body of Moses."- Jude 9.— Would God say Moses was dead, when he was alive?

What said Hezekiah when he was about to die? He "wept sore," and said. "The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day."Sheol-hades" the grave cannot praise thee." In answer to his prayer God said, "I will add unto thy days, fifteen years." What! Add fifteen years to immortality, Sir!! We have shown from the Bible, that immortality is to be sought after-to be put on. My friend says, the spirit is already immortal, and at death puts off the body. That which puts off, is that which puts on; but "this mortal must put on immortality;" hence this Scripture shows that my brother's spirit is mortal.

The Bible would be complete if everything was left out which relates to the immortality of the spirit, with the exception of what Satan said to Eve. "Ye shall not surely die." The word immortal occurs but once in the Bible. Now if the spirit is immortal, why is it not mentioned somewhere in the Bible? Why have the Bible writers overlooked it, if it is true? Does God reveal truth to the heathen before he does to his children?

Herodotus, the oldest historian, whose writings are extant, who wrote between two and three thousand years ago, says:- "The Egyptians were the FIRST who asserted the doctrine that the soul is immortal."-Herodotus, p. 144. Subsequent to this, the Grecian and Roman philosophers embraced the same doctrine. When the Jews mingled with them, some adopted their philosophy. Finally, Pope Clement the V decreed that the soul is immortal. In his defence in 1530, Prop. 27th, Luther says:

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I permit the Pope to make articles of faith for himself and his faithful, such as that the soul is immortal, with all those monstrous opinions to be found in the Roman dunghill of decretals."

When Dr. Barclay was in Palestine, he visited the cave of Pelagius, on Mt. Olivet, where christians secluded themselves in the early persecu tions. In this cave, he found the following, engraven upon the rock in the old Greek language. "Put thy faith in God, Domitela, no human creature is immortal."

Paul says, "I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God." but he has not said one word about the immortality of the spirit. Therefore it is not the counsel of God. Again he says "I have kept back nothing that was profitable." He has kept back everything concerning the immortality of the soul or spirit, or consciousness in hades; therefore it is not "profitable." My friend has failed to bring one thus saith the Lord" to prove his position, that the spirit is conscious between death and the resurrection. Hence he has not sustained his proposition by the BIBLE, but by Josephus and heathen mythology.

Ruach, the word rendered spirit occur in the Old Testament four hundred times; and pneuma, the corressponding Greek word, three hundred and eighty-five times in the New; making seven hundred and eighty-five in the whole. In all these examples ruach and pneuma are not once rendered soul; and yet my opponent has been confounding spirit and soul together through the whole discussion. We

do not find one word about the immortality of the spirit in the whole seven hundred and eighty-five passages where these words occur. Must we still believe it? Nephesh, the word rendered soul in the Old Testament occurs seven hundred and fifty-two times, and is twenty-six times applied to beasts.

The corresponding word, psukee occcurs in the New Testament one hundred and five times, making in all, eight hundred and fiftyseven; and in all these examples, these words are not once rendered spirit; still we are told that spirit and soul are synonymous terms, and used interchangably. In all these passages where these words occur, we do not find one word about an immortal soul which lives on in a conscious state, between death and the resurrection.

Again, we find that the words which are rendered, die, death, and dead, occur in the Old Testament nineteen hundred and thirty-nine times, and the corresponding words are found in the New Testament six hundred and forty-three times; and yet in these two thousand five hundred and eighty-two passages, we find no hint that man's spirit, or any part of man, is alive and conscious between death and the resurrection.

In all the four thousand one hundred and twenty-four passages where the words spirit, soul, die, death, and dead occur, we do not find one teaching that the spirit is immortal, and conscious after death; hence, we repeat, our brother's proposition is not sustained by the Bible.

Now we see why we need a Savior to raise us from the dead. As Paul says, "If Christ be not raised....then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are PERISHED," which means "to depart wholly," "to waste away," "to come to nothing."

Here Mr. Chairman, we submit the resolution; regretting that we have no more time, but feeling very grateful to the audience for the candid attention they have shown, and the good order they have preserved.

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THURSDAY EVENING.

PROPOSITION. "The punishment of the wicked will consist in the eternal extinction of their being.".

Elder GRANT affirms-Elder CLAYTON denies.

OPENING SPEECH OF ELD. GRANT.

Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen:

The subject before us this evening is one of solemn and momentous import; one much treated of in the Bible, and upon which we all wish to be satisfied.

We would here remark that we have no object in engaging in this discussion, but for the sake of elucidating the truth. God is our witness in this matter; that we do not engage in it barely for the sake of victory, but for the purpose of leading the people to a correct conclusion in rela tion to the teachings of the Holy Scriptures.

Perhaps it will be proper for me to state at this time, that I believe in eternal punishment as strongly, probably, as any man living. I have no doubts on this point. I differ with my opponent only as to the nature of that punishment, or in what it consists. It was remarked last evening, that we dare not come to the Scriptures. We hope our friend will see cause to take that statement back. We do come to the Scriptures; we have no where else to go for light on the subject before us. The question is asked in 1 Peter 4: 17. "What shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" In Psalms 145: 20, we read, "The Lord preserveth all them that love him; but all the wicked will he destroy." The word here rendered destroy, shah-mād, is defined, "to destroy," "to lay waste;" for example, cities, altars, &c. Lev. 26: 30, is an example. And I will destroy your high places." Does the Lord mean, he will torment their high places? Of course not. Again in Num. 33: 52. "Then you shall drive out all inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places." The same word again. Does he mean he will torment their pictures? or torment their molten images? It means simply as the Lexicographers defines it, "to cut off," "to blot out' persons and nations; and shall I put a different construction on the word when it is applied to the wicked?" All the wicked will he destroy."What does destroy mean there? Mr. Pick defines this word, "to annihilate." This is the only definition he gives of the word shāh-mād, here rendered destroy. "All the wicked will he" annihilate. We will give the English definition of the word destroy, as given by Mr. Webter. He says it means, "to demolish, to pull down, as to destroy a house; to ruin; to annihilate a thing by demolishing or burning; as to destroy a city; to bring to naught; to annihilate; to devour; to consume; in

general, to put an end to,-to annihilate a thing, or the form in which it exists."

"All the wicked will he destroy." This is something prospective'; something to come; not in the past. When he has destroyed all the wicked, then are they all alive in the full vigor of existence, and even more so than when they were dwelling upon this planet?

We will take some examples of the use of this word here rendered destroy. Amos 9: 8. "Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth.”— Was that kingdom standing in its glory after the Lord had destroyed it? Again in Isa. 13: 9. "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it." Must we give another definition to destroy, when it is applied to sinners, than when it refers to pictures and other objects? Psalms 37:38. The transgressors shall be destroyed together; the end of the wicked shall be cut off." My friend said last evening, and he said it before, that we prove our propositions from the Old Testament. We hope he will be willing to take that back before we get through.

We believe the Old and New Testament harmonize. We believe that the Holy Spirit which taught the prophets, taught them correctly; and that God knew as well what was truth when he taught them, as when he instructed the apostles.

Turn to Ps. 92: 7. When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed forever." Hengstenberg remarks on this verse; "The annihilation of the wicked comes into notice as the basis of the deliverance of the righteous, which is the proper theme for this Psalm." All these examples are from the same word shäh-mäd; which is defined "to destroy," and is applied to pictures, cities, altars, &c. "All the wicked will he destroy."

Let us take another word that is employed to represent the punishment of the wicked. Gen. 6: 7. "And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fouls of the air."

Here we find the word mah-gah, which is defined, “to blot out, erase?” When he destroyed those beasts and fowls and creeping things, did he put them out of existence, so far as possessing life is concerned? Or are they now enjoying life somewhere else? The same is predicated of man as of beasts and creeping things.

The Lord said, "I will destroy both man, and beast, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the air."

In Gen. 7: 4, it is said," For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth." This means "blot out, erase."

In Gen. 7: 21, we read, " And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:" Did those men as truly die as

the beasts and creeping things? Says Solomon," As the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath....all are of the dust and all turn to dust again." The next verse reads, "All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land died." Man had the breath of life in him; all those animals had the breath of life in them, and all died but Noah, and they that were with him in the ark.

Here we find the meaning of destroy. Gen. 7: 23. "And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven, and they were destroyed from the earth, and Noah only remained alive and they that were with him in the ark.".

In Psalms 51: 1, we have the same word again. "Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy loving kindness; according unto the multitudo of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions."

Here the same word is rendered blot out. Does David mean presérve or torment "my transgressions," In the 9th, verse, he uses the same word and says: "Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities." We will examine another word which is used to represent the punish ment of the wicked. We know of no way to understand this subject, but to examine the words used for this purpose and compare them together.We will turn to Prov. 13: 13. "Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed." Not is destroyed, but shall be. The word ghuh-val, here rendered destroyed, is defined by Gesenius, simply," to be destroyed."Here we would remark, there are thirty-eight words in the Old Testament which are rendered destroy destroyeth, destroyed, and destroying, and eleven in the New; and not one of them is defined by Lexicographers to signi by suffering. These words are applied to man and beasts and inanimate objects, indiscriminately. These words occur in the Old Testament three hundred and twenty-six times, and in the New fifty-three; making in all, three hundred and seventy-nine. Words used so many times cannot be used indefinitely and without a plain positive meaning. In Jer. 17:18, we read, "Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction.". Here the word rendered destroy is from the same root as the others, and is defined, "He broke, dashed in pieces, utterly destroyed." Prov. 29: 1."He, that being ofteu reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed and that without remedy." This shows there is to be no restora tion from the final destruction. They are to be destroyed without remedy." We will now turn to the New Testament, and consider a few passages; reserving the full examination, for another time. Matthew 7: 13-14. "Enterye in at the straight gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Here is one road ending in destruction; and another in life. Observe the contrast. The word rendered destruction is defined "perdition"-" ruin" and "death;" which is the full description as given by Donnegan in his Lexicon.

way,